[FORD]: NEW Scorpion V8 Diesel Information (post 63 - prelim power numbers)

[theoldwizard]

Sorry I'm late to the party !

Igor knows me from over on BlueOvalNews.

Retired from FoMoCo in '07 with 30+ years of Powertrain controls experience. I still have contacts in that area.

Originally Posted by igor

all besides the breach of contract one thing that P-O's me about Navistar;s suit is their claim that "LION" is their diesel - IT IS NOT!!

They might have had some project called lion, but the LION diesel Ford is planning for the F150 (4.4l V8) and its big brother for the Super Duty (6.7l called Scorpion) are somehow related to Navistar technology, engines, patents or work.

The 4.4L and the 6.7L were designed primarily in Dearborn. Those engineers were cautioned not to even look at the Lion because there is some Navistar technology in there. A lot of good stuff was "borrowed" from the Puma (a 4 cylinder).

Calling either the 4.4L or the 6.7L a "Lion" is a common mistake. IIRC it might have gone by the name Griffin at one time.

[igor]

Originally Posted by theoldwizard

Sorry I'm late to the party !

Igor knows me from over on BlueOvalNews.

Retired from FoMoCo in '07 with 30+ years of Powertrain controls experience. I still have contacts in that area.



The 4.4L and the 6.7L were designed primarily in Dearborn. Those engineers were cautioned not to even look at the Lion because there is some Navistar technology in there. A lot of good stuff was "borrowed" from the Puma (a 4 cylinder).

Calling either the 4.4L or the 6.7L a "Lion" is a common mistake. IIRC it might have gone by the name Griffin at one time.

WELCOME

BTW I had heard that like the 4.5l Duramax, the 6.7l uses the new inboard exhaust .. heard any of that?

Igor

[theoldwizard]

Originally Posted by igor

WELCOME

BTW I had heard that like the 4.5l Duramax, the 6.7l uses the new inboard exhaust .. heard any of that?

Igor

Nope ! I'll have to ask.

You may have heard that several of the "key" engineers on the 4.5L Duramax are former Ford employees.

[theoldwizard]

Originally Posted by Cabana Boy

So if I recall, the rift between Ford and Navistar began when Navistar fell far short of one of it's Diesel V6 engines development specifications (4.5L, if memory serves correctly) in both power and far over in weight and cost. This caused Ford to pull the plug on the whole program,

The real reason Ford pulled the plug on the 4.5L program was timing. Navistar was so late with both the 6.0L and the 4.5L there was no way that either would have made the scheduled delivery date. Ford told Navistar to stop all work on the V6 and concentrate solely on the 6.0L V8.

This goes back like 6 years.

More like 8.

Ultimately, Navistar sued Ford because the contract called for Ford to purchase a certain number of engines per year, assuming both a V6 and a V8. Ford settled out of court, Navistar finished the 4.5L V6 and it is available in several International tricks (as well as the Ford LCF) today.

I bet Ford saw this coming with the last 6.0L problems and has been busy as a beaver with a hushed Diesel in the works, but could not say so because Navistar was still invited in the house for dinner.

It wasn't until after the fecal material collide with the air moving equipment on 6.0L warranty and things weren't going to rosy with the 6.4L development (lots of late base engine design changes saved that program) that Ford really kicked off design of the new V8s.

Yes, early design work on the 4.4L and the 6.7L was very hush, hush and only a few close to the program new it was even going on. (I did not.) The 6.7L could have been introduced at the same time the 4.4L is coming out but it is held back so that Ford can fulfill it purchase agreement with Navistar.

Look for the 4.4L in the F250 and the E250 probably in its second year of production. It will do well ther.