[FORD]: NEW Scorpion V8 Diesel Information (post 63 - prelim power numbers)

[igor]

^^I thin kthe HP numbers simply reflect the Displacement increase ... the 700ft.lbf at 1800 rpms is the real story ..
besides .. it seems Ford has no problem builting real towing monsters .. not any more than any other Big3.
the 6cyl engines are nice, but I beleve they are running against refinement issues .. the LCF I6 International Diesel was cancelled exactly for that - it wat teethshtteringly rough ... but that might have been just one engine ...

I6 seems to be the preferred engine for big rigs.. so you might be onto something .. I think Ford is right now just does not have the energy to try to be original enough to think of ways to change the game .. they are trying to simply stay alive .. and the Lion/Scorpion engine co-developped with PSA-Peugeot-Citroen has only a V8 capable of enough power anf torque to satisfy this mrket ... the other engines are way smaller. and the V8 is simply a magical engine (wait for the 4.4l in the F150) and it seems to be eaxctly the tech that should be used for as the basis for a larger V8.


Igor

[MN12Fan]

Originally Posted by SHOwned

Hmm...I guess thats true. I thought the 3.8's were known for having headgasket issues by 100K?

Yes, of course, but it's a stigma that got spread in such a way where many considered that all 3.8L V6s are bad, which is not true. The issue was basically such that the head gasket material would react differently from the rest of the engine as the metals expanded and contracted from heating up and cooling down. Eventually this lead to the head gaskets warping and failing to work properly. It was certainly an issue and luck played a role in many cases but it was one that could be kept in check by keeping the cooling system in good condition and not beating the hell out of the engine. On split port fuel injected 3.8s, which were the only 3.8s produced by the late '90s, the problem was eliminated.

[rbrown280]

Originally Posted by igor

^^I thin kthe HP numbers simply reflect the Displacement increase ... the 700ft.lbf at 1800 rpms is the real story ..
besides .. it seems Ford has no problem builting real towing monsters .. not any more than any other Big3.
the 6cyl engines are nice, but I beleve they are running against refinement issues .. the LCF I6 International Diesel was cancelled exactly for that - it wat teethshtteringly rough ... but that might have been just one engine ...

I6 seems to be the preferred engine for big rigs.. so you might be onto something .. I think Ford is right now just does not have the energy to try to be original enough to think of ways to change the game .. they are trying to simply stay alive .. and the Lion/Scorpion engine co-developped with PSA-Peugeot-Citroen has only a V8 capable of enough power anf torque to satisfy this mrket ... the other engines are way smaller. and the V8 is simply a magical engine (wait for the 4.4l in the F150) and it seems to be eaxctly the tech that should be used for as the basis for a larger V8.


Igor

any updates on this? When is it thought that Ford will begin using this scorpion engine instead of the Navistar engine? I'd heard of this, but figured it was Ford just playing hard negotiating with Navistar. So you think Ford will actually go through with this?

[Stéphane Dumas]

I wonder if the Scorpion could found applications on others Ford models like the E-series/Ecolonine, Crown Victoria? (then it's too bad the Mustang engine bay might be too narrow for this upcoming engine because we could had lots of muscle and torque with good mileage, having our cake and eating it too)

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by Stéphane Dumas

I wonder if the Scorpion could found applications on others Ford models like the E-series/Ecolonine, Crown Victoria? (then it's too bad the Mustang engine bay might be too narrow for this upcoming engine because we could had lots of muscle and torque with good mileage, having our cake and eating it too)

I would think that the 4.4L destined for the F150 would make into the vans.

[igor]

Originally Posted by benroethig

I would think that the 4.4L destined for the F150 would make into the vans.

yes that is expected .. also Ford is working on a ground up new econoline ..

the Scorpion will likely not debut before the Navistar constract expires in 2012 - that is a long time,. but I doubt ford has a way out of that contract. The engine should be up and running next year though and the rest of that period is to be spent on improving it and testin it.

a diesel mustang? hell no .. not gonna happen.

Igor

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by igor

yes that is expected .. also Ford is working on a ground up new econoline ..

Sweet! My parents have an Econoline, and it's okay except for some engine reliability issues.

But if they build one with a fuel efficient diesel (I don't need a torque monster, I don't tow), electronic stability control, and side curtain airbags, it could be an excellent family vehicle. If it could support 4WD for winters it would be a perfect vehicle for a big family.

[1931Chevy]

Igor is this info true about the engines
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...cleId=121668#3

[1931Chevy]

Originally Posted by igor

yes that is expected .. also Ford is working on a ground up new econoline ..

the Scorpion will likely not debut before the Navistar constract expires in 2012 - that is a long time,. but I doubt ford has a way out of that contract. The engine should be up and running next year though and the rest of that period is to be spent on improving it and testin it.

a diesel mustang? hell no .. not gonna happen.

Igor

well not directly from Ford but here it is
http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/09...d-with-20.html

Yes, we couldn’t believe it either when we saw this Mustang parked in a booth outside Hall 3.0 in Frankfurt. Is it possible, a race-ready Mustang equipped with an eco-friendly, 4cylinder, 2.0-liter turbocharged engine that runs on bio-diesel? Yes and it delivers 280 Hp and a maximum torque of 500 Nm or 368.8 lbs/ft. allowing the race car to sprint from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph) in 5,0 sec and to achieve a top speed of 250 km/h (155 mph).

[Klay]

Not sure if this was posted in this thread or not already but has anyone read MM&FF this month? It has some info about the 777 engine in it. Some guy is working with roush and ford to test this engine on a race car. He has it running on E85 and it makes 800 hp in NA trim. However, I'm sure this wouldn't be the actual trim it would be offered in but some from of it could make its way into several ford vehicles according to the person who wrote the article.

[bluecon]

Diesel road racing pickup. Diesels may be the future.
Audi is also winning road races with diesels.

http://bankspower.com/DmaxTypeR-Update-307.cfm

[fordchevydodge]

You can Say I'm a Schill or something, But I'm a fan of "Detroit" AMERICAN (North American) manufacturers, AKA the "Big Three"


So, I just wanted to add: It's easy to say "FORDS gonna kill the Hemi When the Boss comes out"

First of all, Chrysler has had the HEMI out In actual production models Since CY 2001 I Believe (RAM), and in CARS since CY 2003 i think.
They've been doing it.

And they've put it in just about everything Large & RWD: RAM, 300C(& 300C Touring) , Charger, Magnum, Grand Cherokee, Commander, Durango, Aspen, Now The Challanger, Imperial, Nassau? etc...

The Boss (Hurricane) has been started and stopped like what, Three times now?.... I'm Not saying the won't, In fact I hope they do.. All of the Big Three, Detroit with thumpin' V-8's ... HEMI, Boss, LS-x, Showing Europe and especially Japan what we can do (without charging $70,000 or even $60,000)
for a performance/ Luxury car with real power.

But Chrysler Must have been working on the New HEMI since the Late 90s, Do you think the Mopar guys are gonna rest on their Laurels?
You Don't think they're working on kick ass new stuff they aren't revealing yet, or even giving all the details on the stuff they are talking about?
And the new majority owners, Cerebus, is planing on spending Money to make money, and Daimler is still involved ...

anyway : they are Upgrading the 5.7 HEMI, maybe increasing the size in cars too, it will become 5.9 or 6.1 Liters in the RAM
The 6.1 will be upgraded with MDS and be available on the "Regular" Models , IE: the Challanger R/T,
and apparently 'regular' versions of the others as well.
The New SRT-8 HEMI confirmed for Challanger, and According to Insiders To be in the SRT8 300c, charger/ Magnum....
will be 6.4L, the new 392 Hemi now Quoted at 525, then 535 hp

They are also adapting the Duel-VVT from the viper (That TWIN Cams In-block)
And The HEMI's take to Blowers like a duck to water... See the tuner versions of 6.1, (&5.7)


Also all of their engine programs are moving towards Direct injection: World-4 Phoenix-V6 and the HEMI V-8, (and Viper)
Also Chrysler is also working with Daimler(Mercedes) on "Electronic-cam"

And of course there's talk of a 7L (426) HEMI ...

So you take can Any of the Big 3, and say they can come out with one this size, with DI, And twin turbo"
But I wouldn't start saying this Company (Ford) is Gonna Kill Chrysler/ GM When this comes out.. let's see what they all have by then...

(( OF COURSE thanks to our federal Gov't which Hurts our Auto Industry , As opposed to JAPAN INC, which does everything to Help them (And help them cheat with unfair, and illegal trade practices according to Int'L trade Agreements & Orgs. ( like the WTO,& GATT etc)
Who knows when the "man" will stop the party and shoot ourselves in the foot.

[nailhead425]

The HEMI went from clean sheet to production in very little time.
The HEMI is their answer to the Gen III/IV small blocks and was realized around early 2000.

Ford needs the Boss, a better diesel, expanded V-6 lineup, and new platforms. They just don't have the cashflow. The 3-V Triton engines are stop-gaps to compete with the Hemi, 6.0 GM engines, and Toyota/Nissan.

[FordFan]

Originally Posted by nailhead425

Ford needs the Boss, a better diesel, expanded V-6 lineup, and new platforms. They just don't have the cashflow. The 3-V Triton engines are stop-gaps to compete with the Hemi, 6.0 GM engines, and Toyota/Nissan.

Boss is already on the way, they have 2 diesels for trucks and both are IN-HOUSE, expanded V6 lineup? oh yea just like GM's idiotic...err chaotic V6 lineup, I think the D35 architecture is fine and with the D37 it will be complete. Platforms? B2 (New Fiesta/New MZ2), C2 (upcoming unified Focus) and EUCD2 (upcoming mid/fullsize platform) are coming, The B2 is already here (Mazda 2) add to that the newly confirmed Huntsman platform to underpin every RWD FLM cars, yes this finally includes the panthers, this is it at last. They don't have the cashflow? umm they bet the farm at the end of 2005, I can imagine they burned 22Bil during ONE YEAR.

The Modular engines aren't impressive, but the Twin Force are and they're going to kick ass.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by FordFan

Boss is already on the way, they have 2 diesels for trucks and both are IN-HOUSE, expanded V6 lineup? oh yea just like GM's idiotic...err chaotic V6 lineup, I think the D35 architecture is fine and with the D37 it will be complete. Platforms? B2 (New Fiesta/New MZ2), C2 (upcoming unified Focus) and EUCD2 (upcoming mid/fullsize platform) are coming, The B2 is already here (Mazda 2) add to that the newly confirmed Huntsman platform to underpin every RWD FLM cars, yes this finally includes the panthers, this is it at last. They don't have the cashflow? umm they bet the farm at the end of 2005, I can imagine they burned 22Bil during ONE YEAR.

The Modular engines aren't impressive, but the Twin Force are and they're going to kick ass.

I'm a firm believer that you have to spend money to make money. If Ford hadn't made that type of investment, financial figures would look much better today. But sticking with the old Duratec 30 and the modular V8s (which were competitive years ago but not any more), failing to develop new diesels, failing to migrate to six speed automatics and other advanced transmissions, and failing to develop new technologies for fuel economy (like TwinForce) would positively bury them in the future.