Ford hopes dim as more workers vote down cost-saving changes

[chevydlrmn]

Ford hopes dim as more workers vote down cost-saving changes
By DEE-ANN DURBIN and TOM KRISHER , Associated Press

DETROIT - Ford Motor Co.'s hopes for a cost-cutting labor agreement grew dimmer, with a key local union in Kentucky rejecting changes to workers' contracts.

Eighty-four percent of workers at United Auto Workers Local 862 in Louisville voted against the changes, local President Rocky Comito said late Friday. Comito said workers felt they were being asked to give more than the company's executives.

"Some want to see management give more at the upper level," Comito said. The Louisville local represents 5,000 workers.

http://www.startribune.com/local/677...nciaec8O7EyUsl

[BlackGTP]

In a recent thread discussing Ford's $35B debt I was posting regaring Ford's need for flawless execution to overcome their high debt level. Their trumpeting their lack of need for a government bailout has hurt them at the bargaining table with the unions. Not that this isn't insurmountable, but in 5 to 8 years Ford could be at quite a disadvantage. Once their current crop of great vehicles that were designed on the $35 billion in debt run their lives Ford must have flawless execution on all fronts to have cash to fund and design a next generation of vehicles.

I know, Ford supporters will utterly ignore this comment. It will turn this thread into, "well Ford is so much better than GM", etc. I'm throwing down the gauntlet to the Ford supporters - try addressing my comment without addressing GM or any other make. My comments are purely Ford specific - tell me how Ford only has roses in it's future. And I am not saying that this is the end of Ford (which it certainly isn't) - but you need to acknowledge that Ford's future is not a given.

[mjd1001]

I'll admit I don't know 100% of the details of what the UAW members here are being asked to give up, nor do I know what management is giving up. However, I will say this. My opinion during the entire 'financial crisis' regarding the auto industry is that EVERYONE has to give up something, and not just small, token things. Hopefully, Ford upper management will show the UAW they are going to give up a bit more pay and incentives, and then the UAW members will support what they have to give up.

However, past experience shows us that usually that is unlikely to be the case. UAW members and management tend to not want to give up ANYTHING unless it is CLEAR the 'other side' is giving up considerably more than they are...or unless it is already 'too late'.

[Extreme4x4]

From reading many posts in the employee section of BON, I am convinced that the UAW would not be happy, until Mullaly agrees to work for $1.

Anything that he makes, will be deemed too much. If he cuts his salary by $1 million a year, they will bitch that he still gets $1 million............ which is more than any human being could ever need.

[W.A.F.U.]

Originally Posted by BlackGTP

I know, Ford supporters will utterly ignore this comment. It will turn this thread into, "well Ford is so much better than GM", etc. I'm throwing down the gauntlet to the Ford supporters - try addressing my comment without addressing GM or any other make. My comments are purely Ford specific - tell me how Ford only has roses in it's future. And I am not saying that this is the end of Ford (which it certainly isn't) - but you need to acknowledge that Ford's future is not a given.

I haven't seen a thread yet where the Fordies could honestly answer a question without somehow turning it into a bash GM situation. Ford would have been much better off following GM into bankruptcy to shed their debt and bring the parasite UAW to their knees.

As it stands, Ford has to repay their debt and pay more for labor costs than the other 2. Let's see what spin they try to come up with to make it all rosey.

[BlackGTP]

Originally Posted by W.A.F.U.

I haven't seen a thread yet where the Fordies could honestly answer a question without somehow turning it into a bash GM situation. Ford would have been much better off following GM into bankruptcy to shed their debt and bring the parasite UAW to their knees.

As it stands, Ford has to repay their debt and pay more for labor costs than the other 2. Let's see what spin they try to come up with to make it all rosey.

And the Fordies forget that if GM and Chrysler did NOT declare bankruptcy they would not have the labor concessions they did get.

I can't wait for the Ford fans to read this - this will probably rile them up so much they won't be able to sleep

Sorry Ford fans - just some good natured fun and "arguing"

[chevydlrmn]

I'm sure that the proposed cuts would not have been to my liking, had I been involved. I know that Ford figured they were making the right move by avoiding BK. However, I think it will hurt them when most of the people with a chip on their shoulder about GM have gotten over it. I think Fords decision will hurt them down the road, even though it has helped the a little now.

[Member17739]

The agreement which is about to be rejected is not that crucial, sure it would be nice if it passed but Ford already received most of the cost cutting adjustments the UAW gave to GM and C.
http://www.freep.com/article/2009103...ack-for-defeat

[goblue]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

I'll admit I don't know 100% of the details of what the UAW members here are being asked to give up, nor do I know what management is giving up. However, I will say this. My opinion during the entire 'financial crisis' regarding the auto industry is that EVERYONE has to give up something, and not just small, token things. Hopefully, Ford upper management will show the UAW they are going to give up a bit more pay and incentives, and then the UAW members will support what they have to give up.

However, past experience shows us that usually that is unlikely to be the case. UAW members and management tend to not want to give up ANYTHING unless it is CLEAR the 'other side' is giving up considerably more than they are...or unless it is already 'too late'.

No, I wish that were the case, but its not. It sounds fair, but life isn't.

Management can get jobs elsewhere making at least as much.
Engineering is also in demand elsewhere.
Marketing, Design, EAs, all paid at or below market wage.

The only people who need to take the cuts are union as they are the ones who used essentially the blackmail of a strike to keep wages artificially higher than the market would pay.

You are only as valuable as someone else will pay for your services. That's the hard, honest truth.

Ford is in deep trouble if they can't get contracts at least as good as GM.

[chevyman1973]

Originally Posted by goblue

No, I wish that were the case, but its not. It sounds fair, but life isn't.

Management can get jobs elsewhere making at least as much.
Engineering is also in demand elsewhere.
Marketing, Design, EAs, all paid at or below market wage.

The only people who need to take the cuts are union as they are the ones who used essentially the blackmail of a strike to keep wages artificially higher than the market would pay.

You are only as valuable as someone else will pay for your services. That's the hard, honest truth.

Ford is in deep trouble if they can't get contracts at least as good as GM.

I hope ford struggles and needs the govt help and the govt says no! We were going to help you and you said you didnt need the help! Ford is in real trouble, there cars and trucks are not even the top of the line!

Gm got a lot of crap for having the govt help them but in a few we will see how that help them so much!

[AG3]

Originally Posted by chevyman1973

I hope ford struggles and needs the govt help and the govt says no!

Just wish GM improves or continues to improve instead of hopping that something bad happens to its competitors.

Competition keeps these companies on their toes.

[chevydlrmn]

Originally Posted by Member17739

The agreement which is about to be rejected is not that crucial, sure it would be nice if it passed but Ford already received most of the cost cutting adjustments the UAW gave to GM and C.
http://www.freep.com/article/2009103...ack-for-defeat

really? I doubt it. Fords future is not looking great. Too bad GMI's staff won't put this on the ticker. Obviously this means nothing to them. They should get real!

[goblue]

Originally Posted by chevyman1973

I hope ford struggles and needs the govt help and the govt says no! We were going to help you and you said you didnt need the help! Ford is in real trouble, there cars and trucks are not even the top of the line!

Gm got a lot of crap for having the govt help them but in a few we will see how that help them so much!

I don't know, personally I think what Ford did was admirable. They accessed inexpensive credit lines early, GM waited and had bankruptcy as their only option.

However - make no mistake, unless the Unions give Ford at least as good a deal as GM got - they will be at the government teet soon as well.

[blank disk]

The price of success.....everyone wants a piece of your pie.

[benroethig]

Is the UAW committed to making sure all its members are unemployed or something?