Ford Bid for UAW Concessions Dims as Rejections Mount at Plants

[nsap]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

GM went bankrupt, Ford didn't.

Are you suggesting Ford should declare bankruptcy?

Somehow they think that allows them room to bargain with Ford...

I can't see Ford rolling over on this issue too easily.

Ford thought they were entitled to the same concessions that GM and Chrysler got, but at the same time the company is enjoying and relishing in their positive PR limelight that only Toyota has enjoyed to the same degree. A large part of collective bargaining is public perception. Ford is currently the media's new pony and this is thrown in the UAW member's faces daily; about how well-off Ford Motor Company is and how they avoided the same defacing restructuring methods that GM and Chrysler had to go through.

I am of the opinion that Ford probably does need the same amount of concessions (at least very close) to those of GM and Chrysler, however Ford is going to have to do an exceptionally good job at getting that message out. Unfortunately in doing so it may tarnish their golden boy status within the industry. It is a double-edged sword really. If I were Mulally I would be throwing out the propaganda to the plants big time and not worry so much about public perception. It's more important at this point that their labor costs are competitive with GM and Chrysler. So long as they don't make some idiotic mistakes, their perception with the rest of the public will not get tarnished too badly. Actually, I think most of the public is well aware that Ford is not financially a super healthy company yet, they just know it has a plan to be one and is making perceptibly good products. A prime PR position IMO.

Right now Ford wants it all...the glorious public image and the concessions that came with bankrupt automakers. Unfortunately they are dealing with an organization (UAW) that will never allow for both.

[All-Or-Nothing]

Originally Posted by goochman

I think we need to face the fact that a line worker job is not an upper middle class job anymore. Production facilities can be put up anywhere in the world and serve the global auto industry. No one is stating you need to work for $2 an hr, however the old days of guarenteed pay raises and high levels of pay have most likely ended.

EXACTLY

[blank disk]

The deal is done I believe.

Old news here.

[Member17739]

I find it interesting that voting is set right before the 3rd quarter earnings release. IMO, Ford is going to surprise everyone with the latest earnings and they knew this is their last chance to make any changes to the UAW contract.

[Extreme4x4]

Thats right.................. those greedy *******s !!!

How dare they try to have their "for profit" company, make a small profit !!!!

[Member17739]

Originally Posted by Extreme4x4

Thats right.................. those greedy *******s !!!

How dare they try to have their "for profit" company, make a small profit !!!!

We are still looking for a perfect balance in the corporation/workers relationship. First we had corporations abuse workers, which led to the creation of the unions. Then the unions abused corporations. This is a never ending back and forth power struggle, I doubt we'll ever have both sides happy.

[doh]

Originally Posted by nsap

Ford thought they were entitled to the same concessions that GM and Chrysler got, but at the same time the company is enjoying and relishing in their positive PR limelight that only Toyota has enjoyed to the same degree. A large part of collective bargaining is public perception. Ford is currently the media's new pony and this is thrown in the UAW member's faces daily; about how well-off Ford Motor Company is and how they avoided the same defacing restructuring methods that GM and Chrysler had to go through.

I am of the opinion that Ford probably does need the same amount of concessions (at least very close) to those of GM and Chrysler, however Ford is going to have to do an exceptionally good job at getting that message out. Unfortunately in doing so it may tarnish their golden boy status within the industry. It is a double-edged sword really. If I were Mulally I would be throwing out the propaganda to the plants big time and not worry so much about public perception. It's more important at this point that their labor costs are competitive with GM and Chrysler. So long as they don't make some idiotic mistakes, their perception with the rest of the public will not get tarnished too badly. Actually, I think most of the public is well aware that Ford is not financially a super healthy company yet, they just know it has a plan to be one and is making perceptibly good products. A prime PR position IMO.

Right now Ford wants it all...the glorious public image and the concessions that came with bankrupt automakers. Unfortunately they are dealing with an organization (UAW) that will never allow for both.

And Ford will keep the Glorious Public Image, but at the expense of the UAW. Wether they move manufacturing out of the USA, or they go into Chapter 11, it will be "Because of the UAW" as far as the Media goes.

The UAW is being dealt a very tough hand, that up to 90% of it's members fail to see.

[syr74]

People on forums make this issue more complicated than it really is, and potentially more complicated than I think Alan Mullaly might make it. My take? If the UAW wont play, over the course of the next couple of year Ford should simply alter the layout of factories in such a manner that facilities in 'right to work' states could support Ford exclusively. If the UAW still wont budge, call their bluff by canning the whole lot but for those who actually want their job and bring in people actually who want a job to replace the rest....you'll see what loyalty looks like in a hurry as people get to choose between keeping their job and hitting the cheese line.

Negotiating with the UAW is simply going to make certain that we are right back here again in another fifty years. Yeah, unions have a legitimate purpose, but groups like the UAW became as self serving as the worst corporations years ago....reality has absolutely no meaning to these guys and they either don't understand basic economics or they don't care.

Spinning a lug nut onto a wheel isn't worth 70 grand a year, not plainer way to state it. If these guys can't grasp that concept then I suggest they revisit the idea of going to college.

[doh]

Originally Posted by syr74

People on forums make this issue more complicated than it really is, and potentially more complicated than I think Alan Mullaly might make it. My take? If the UAW wont play, over the course of the next couple of year Ford should simply alter the layout of factories in such a manner that facilities in 'right to work' states could support Ford exclusively. If the UAW still wont budge, call their bluff by canning the whole lot but for those who actually want their job and bring in people actually who want a job to replace the rest....you'll see what loyalty looks like in a hurry as people get to choose between keeping their job and hitting the cheese line.

Negotiating with the UAW is simply going to make certain that we are right back here again in another fifty years. Yeah, unions have a legitimate purpose, but groups like the UAW became as self serving as the worst corporations years ago....reality has absolutely no meaning to these guys and they either don't understand basic economics or they don't care.

Spinning a lug nut onto a wheel isn't worth 70 grand a year, not plainer way to state it. If these guys can't grasp that concept then I suggest they revisit the idea of going to college.

Exactly why I typed what I typed.

Do you not think the UAW see's the fact that Ford GM or Chrysler could pull everything out of the USA?


Que Jame Taylor Mexico

You Tube

If it costs too much in North America ther are other options.

A Global Economy

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by nsap

Ford thought they were entitled to the same concessions that GM and Chrysler got, but at the same time the company is enjoying and relishing in their positive PR limelight that only Toyota has enjoyed to the same degree. A large part of collective bargaining is public perception. Ford is currently the media's new pony and this is thrown in the UAW member's faces daily; about how well-off Ford Motor Company is and how they avoided the same defacing restructuring methods that GM and Chrysler had to go through.

I am of the opinion that Ford probably does need the same amount of concessions (at least very close) to those of GM and Chrysler, however Ford is going to have to do an exceptionally good job at getting that message out. Unfortunately in doing so it may tarnish their golden boy status within the industry. It is a double-edged sword really. If I were Mulally I would be throwing out the propaganda to the plants big time and not worry so much about public perception. It's more important at this point that their labor costs are competitive with GM and Chrysler. So long as they don't make some idiotic mistakes, their perception with the rest of the public will not get tarnished too badly. Actually, I think most of the public is well aware that Ford is not financially a super healthy company yet, they just know it has a plan to be one and is making perceptibly good products. A prime PR position IMO.

Right now Ford wants it all...the glorious public image and the concessions that came with bankrupt automakers. Unfortunately they are dealing with an organization (UAW) that will never allow for both.

I don't believe it's that complicated.

The reality is Ford needs the same cost concessions that GM and Crysler earned through bankruptcy.

It doesn't matter if Ford is the current media darling or not.

What other choice is there, move majority of current assembly out of the US?
Or face the same issues that help bring bankruptcy a reality for GM and Crysler.
Have Ford as the ONLY US manufacturer to be disadvantaged cost wise simply due to the fact it didn't go bankrupt or it's not an Asain manufacturer?It's a no brainer.

[goochman]

I think one of the bigger issues that UAW needs to come to grip with is aligning their mandate with the health of the companies their workers are employed at. The UAW mandate has nothing to do with the health of their members employers - that is a flaw in their strategy.

Of course everyone can say that without the employer they dont have a job so of course they are concerned about that - unfort history has shown otherwise and there is no incentive to ensure the Employer is healthy long term.

[doh]

Originally Posted by goochman

I think one of the bigger issues that UAW needs to come to grip with is aligning their mandate with the health of the companies their workers are employed at. The UAW mandate has nothing to do with the health of their members employers - that is a flaw in their strategy.

Of course everyone can say that without the employer they dont have a job so of course they are concerned about that - unfort history has shown otherwise and there is no incentive to ensure the Employer is healthy long term.

I have never been a Union Member, but my Wife is, and she has the same basic outlook as I do about working.

The man that taught me the Automotive Business, had just purchased the dealership when I started selling cars.

He doubled New Car and Used Car sales, at that dealership. Once a year he would say at X Mass Profit Sharing time, "We are doing very well as a company, and it is because of the people"

We all wanted to go an extra mile for him. We were a team, and made him a rich man. Very little staff turn over. Alot of education, (His thought every $ spent on education returned $3s to the company) He would state that 70% of your "Awake Hours" were spent at work, so you better like your job.


Private elevators at GM doesn't bring the same "Team Work" feeling. This is a Management as well as a worker failure.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

I don't believe it's that complicated.

The reality is Ford needs the same cost concessions that GM and Crysler earned through bankruptcy.

It doesn't matter if Ford is the current media darling or not.

What other choice is there, move majority of current assembly out of the US?
Or face the same issues that help bring bankruptcy a reality for GM and Crysler.
Have Ford as the ONLY US manufacturer to be disadvantaged cost wise simply due to the fact it didn't go bankrupt or it's not an Asain manufacturer?It's a no brainer.

When those concessions are being voted on by the UAW, perception DOES matter. Remember, these people are not the most realistic individuals on the planet. The reason most plant rejected it is because they have the skewed reality that Ford is in better fiscal shape than GM and Chrysler. Ford needs to get the word out to the plants they things aren't all rosy just because the media says they are.

It's not a complicated issue at all, it's an issue of manipulating the UAW in ways of getting them to grasp the concept of Ford needing equal or similar concessions.

[theoldwizard]

Originally Posted by syr74

If the UAW wont play, over the course of the next couple of year Ford should simply alter the layout of factories in such a manner that facilities in 'right to work' states could support Ford exclusively.

It will be even more "subtle" than that. Ford is in no position to be building any new factories any where except maybe India and China. Those will be designed for local production. I don't believe that assembling US cars alongside Chinese/Indian cars is viable. Building components in Asia will continue to be profitable.

What you will see, over time, is more and more component work outsourced to non-union US and foreign companies.

[doh]

Do you not think that Any Goverment, today would not help with the costs of building a "All New" factory that would employ 500+ local workers?

Stimulus $$$$'s being spent wisely. Me thinks.

Ford could walk into a Brand New plant, for very little outlay.