Ford 6.2L Official numbers are out

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by Buick61

The engines aren't overrated. It's the transmissions and "torque management" that are hurting actual performance.

I'd respond that GM's torque management is even worse (easy to remove though ).

[MM1281]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

The Ford V8 and V10 and the 5.7L Hemi have always been way overrated on paper, neither engine holds a candle to the 5.3L, 6.0L, and 6.2L engines from GM or the 5.7L from Toyota in reality. That's why it kind of surprises me Ford isn't offering the 5.0L with the "flashy" numbers for the trucks.

Im not a fan of the Ford 5.4 but I fail to see how it wont hold a candle to the GM 5.3. The Ford has a favorable torque curve and the 5.3 has to rev to high heaven to work. We have had both at my work place so I have had experience with both. The Gm engine is better on fuel I will say but you really have to rev it to make power. The Ford just comes on quicker and we abuse our trucks. While towing, fuel mileage is not much different. Unloaded the GM does better by a mpg or two.

Both of our trucks are harnessed by 4 speeds so Im not sure how much difference the 6 speeds would make but Im sure both are better. I think the 5.4 is a better truck engine than the high revving 5.3 Chevy. It simply feels like it has a flatter torque curve.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by MM1281

I think the 5.4 is a better truck engine than the high revving 5.3 Chevy. It simply feels like it has a flatter torque curve.

I don't know where you guys are getting this "high revving 5.3L" stuff, most of my engine's power comes under 3500rpm. I've driven the new Ford 5.4L and an 07 Hemi 5.7L and both engines feel weak and are noticeably slower than the 5.3L when you mash the throttle.

[Power Kid]

From close friends that towed their camper with 5.3ls and ultimatly bought something else as they couldn't take the high rpms in 2nd gear just to get up to 55mph.

[MM1281]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

I don't know where you guys are getting this "high revving 5.3L" stuff, most of my engine's power comes under 3500rpm. I've driven the new Ford 5.4L and an 07 Hemi 5.7L and both engines feel weak and are noticeably slower than the 5.3L when you mash the throttle.

Im getting it from real world experience pulling loads. I have no experience with the Dodge 5.7 at all. We had to take the 5.3 over 4 grand to do anything under a big load. The 5.4 ford would do the same thing at 3500. The chevy just had to rev its ass off to make torque and the ford did not have to go as far and thats why I think the ford 5.4 is a better truck engine. Im not saying its a better engine but in truck applications I think it is. Really, its not even close imo. We beat the hell out of our trucks no matter the brand and I will say the Chevys have held up pretty well. Our boss recently went to Fords so its too early to tell how they will do but I dont expect much difference.

I think Ford overall builds a better truck when you look at everything. The engines have been the only thing suspect but hopfully the new ones will put the icing on the cake.

[XCR440SP]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

I don't know where you guys are getting this "high revving 5.3L" stuff, most of my engine's power comes under 3500rpm. I've driven the new Ford 5.4L and an 07 Hemi 5.7L and both engines feel weak and are noticeably slower than the 5.3L when you mash the throttle.

The 5.3L in a 2010 Silverado 1500:

315 Horsepower @ 5200 RPM
335 lb/ft Torque @ 4000 RPM

5.4L 3V in 2010 F-150

310 Horsepower @ 5000 RPM (320 on E85)
365 lb/FT torque @ 3500 RPM (390 on E85).

Now this only shows a little of the difference (Ford biased toward Torque more than Horsepower). Here is the real story. This excerpt is from when the 3V came out in 2004, but still applies.

"The 5.4L 3-valve SOHC Triton engine has outstanding low-end torque making it easier to pull heavy loads from a dead stop. 80 percent of its torque is attained at 1000 rpm, substantially lower than the competitor's engines."

This means that at a mere 1000 RPM the 5.4L has 292 lb/ft of torque. Thats why it tows so much better than the 5.3L. At 1000 RPM its within 43 lb/ft of the peak of the 5.3L. The down side to this is with the linear torque curve the "seat of the pants" performance isn't near as impressive without the sudden thrust feeling you get out of the 5.3L when its torque curve suddely spikes. This spike isn't good for towing, but is fun for driving empty.

[05ChevySilveradoSS]

Originally Posted by XCR440SP

There's one I haven't heard from anyone thats towed with both. The 5.3 series is the most hated truck engine I've had from anyone that tows and uses a truck as a "truck". The high RPM nature of them makes them very difficult to tow with, especially with livestock where you don't want the jerkyness the narrow powerband offers. Generally the Fords are well liked (especially the V10) by those that tow regularly because of the very linear power band that makes towing easier and smoother. This curve is also why many complain about power on these engines. Without the high RPM surge that the Vortec series (and the IForce) deliver you don't get the same sensation of power. Ask many famers around here and they far rather tow with a 350 Vortec than a 5.3L due to the torque and power curve. The Vortec is far more fun to drive empty, however.

One question to ask yourself, if the 5.3L is such a great towing engine, why can't you get one in a 3/4 ton Chevy?

Okay. . .And here we go.

All i have to say is this "Try one with the 6 speed".

And besides all of that idk what and where you got this information from which (its all opinionated from my side and yours) but heres my take.

Personally, i have driven both trucks the 5.4L Ford and the 5.3L chevrolet, and i understand what you mean by "it has to revv" higher, but the jerkyness is all into the "outgunned" 4L60E transmission. Yes its a great transmission, but when it comes to towing the 4L80E is quite a bit better, meaning that if you notice the peak HP and Tq numbers on the 6L (2003-2007) vs the peak Hp and Tq numbers on the 5.3 from the years 2003-2007 youll see that theres not much of a difference (EXCEPT) in tq. The 5.3L and that 6L has almost an IDENTICAL power band (the 6L seems alittle wider when you drive one) however due to the increase in tq numbers and the "better by along shot" 4L80E. Bottom line is the 6L has almost the same idential powerband as the 5.3L but has a different geared more "heavier duty" transmission (4L80E), so thats why it (the 5.3) feels so much more "jerky" (i call it clumbsy lol) than the 6L or the 5.4L.

Now as far as the vortec 5.7L towing "way" better than the 5.3L your dreaming. It does, however perform alittle better due to its lower powerband, BUT the 5.7L has TOTALLY different ECM and TCM programming. Totally different. How i know this? Well ive been working on these things for probrably 6 years or better. Now the bottom line here is the 5.7L tows alittle better because of the "not so much agressive computer controlled" TCM programming. If you dont think that has alot to do with it oh "buddy" lol i can only show you proof of what the ECM and PCM does to these newer trucks.

Oh and Btw ive seen guys towing and even myself tug along 9,000-9,500 (not really safe but who doesnt overload there trucks :P) through the colorado mountains PLENTY of times with our 5.3's, but its the "worst truck" engine lol. Hey i just want you to kindve support that statement bc im not saying your wrong, but i sell these things for a living man, i hear these customers stories day in and day out.

Oh and whomever said "why dont you see that 5.3 in a 3/4 ton truck? Hmmm well why would that be nessecary? The 6L does a mighty fine job plus the 5.3L's assembly line at GM powertrain are already almost to maximum capacity of these things. Due to the silverado, and used to be GMT 360's and now the colorado. And you wonder why the 5.3L is just now getting into the colorados? lol. need i say more?

[05ChevySilveradoSS]

Originally Posted by Power Kid

The 5.3L will pull almost as much as a 5.4L, IF you can stand the high rpms all day long. Reminds me of a Honda engine with out the high rpm smoothness. Makes power, but have to rev the hell out of it to make it appear.
I think the 07+ 6.0L more than held its own in the 1500s. (Vortec Max pkg) The old one did not.

Almost? LOL!

[XCR440SP]

Originally Posted by 05ChevySilveradoSS

Okay. . .And here we go.

All i have to say is this "Try one with the 6 speed".

And besides all of that idk what and where you got this information from which (its all opinionated from my side and yours) but heres my take.

Personally, i have driven both trucks the 5.4L Ford and the 5.3L chevrolet, and i understand what you mean by "it has to revv" higher, but the jerkyness is all into the "outgunned" 4L60E transmission. Yes its a great transmission, but when it comes to towing the 4L80E is quite a bit better, meaning that if you notice the peak HP and Tq numbers on the 6L (2003-2007) vs the peak Hp and Tq numbers on the 5.3 from the years 2003-2007 youll see that theres not much of a difference (EXCEPT) in tq. The 5.3L and that 6L has almost an IDENTICAL power band (the 6L seems alittle wider when you drive one) however due to the increase in tq numbers and the "better by along shot" 4L80E. Bottom line is this the 6L has almost the same idential powerband as the 5.3L but has a different geared more "heavier duty" transmission (4L80E), so thats why it (the 5.3) feels so much more "jerky" (i call it clumbsy lol) than the 6L or the 5.4L.

Now as far as the vortec 5.7L towing "way" better than the 5.3L your dreaming. It does, however perform alittle better due to its lower powerband, BUT the 5.7L has TOTALLY different ECM and TCM programming. Totally different. How i know this? Well ive been working on these things for probrably 6 years or better. Now the bottom line here is the 5.7L tows alittle better because of the "not so much agressive computer controlled" TCM programming. If you dont think that has alot to do with it oh "buddy" lol i can only show you proof of what the ECM and PCM does to these newer trucks.

Oh and Btw ive seen guys towing and even myself tug along 9,000-9,500 through the colorado mountains PLENTY of times with our 5.3's, but its the "worst truck" engine lol. Hey i just want you to kindve support that statement bc im not saying your wrong, but i sell these things for a living man, i hear these customers stories day in and day out.

Oh and whomever said "why dont you see that 5.3 in a 3/4 ton truck? Hmmm well why would that be nessecary? The 6L does a mighty fine job plus the 5.3L's assembly line at GM powertrain are already almost to maximum capacity of these things. Due to the silverado, and used to be GMT 360's and now the colorado. And you wonder why the 5.3L is just now getting into the colorados? lol. need i say anymore?

Agreed the 6 speed can help make up for the engines deficiences, but the 6 speed also helps the 5.4L so we're back where we started.

Yes the 6.0L does have a simmilar power band, and if talking towing applications is the true competitor to the 5.4L. Remember the 6.0L makes 375 lb/ft so its 10 more than the 5.4l (on gas, 15 less on E-85). Thats the reason I said you don't see 5.3L in 3/4 tons. The 5.3L doesn't make enough torque.

Yes, you can tow 9,000# with a 5.3L, but what I and many other's on here are saying is a 5.4L would tow it better. The numbers don't lie. The LS series engine clearly shows its roots in being a performance car engine for the Corvette. It makes great horsepower and loves to rev, but low RPM performance and torque are not in the same league as competitors engines. This is fine for most buyers, but for Farm and work use, this really shows.

That said, I look for engines to head more this way since it looks good on paper and feels good on a test drive. I think the new 6.2L Ford in the 2011 Superduty will look much better on paper and the Horsepower will feel great on a test drive, better than the current V10, but when you hook a trailer up, look for the V10 to be the engine that does the job better (and based on its continued availabilty in the F350/450 confirms this).

[05ChevySilveradoSS]

Originally Posted by XCR440SP

Agreed the 6 speed can help make up for the engines deficiences, but the 6 speed also helps the 5.4L so we're back where we started.

Yes the 6.0L does have a simmilar power band, and if talking towing applications is the true competitor to the 5.4L. Remember the 6.0L makes 375 lb/ft so its 10 more than the 5.4l (on gas, 15 less on E-85). Thats the reason I said you don't see 5.3L in 3/4 tons. The 5.3L doesn't make enough torque.
Yes, you can tow 9,000# with a 5.3L, but what I and many other's on here are saying is a 5.4L would tow it better. The numbers don't lie. The LS series engine clearly shows its roots in being a performance car engine for the Corvette. It makes great horsepower and loves to rev, but low RPM performance and torque are not in the same league as competitors engines. This is fine for most buyers, but for Farm and work use, this really shows.

That said, I look for engines to head more this way since it looks good on paper and feels good on a test drive. I think the new 6.2L Ford in the 2011 Superduty will look much better on paper and the Horsepower will feel great on a test drive, better than the current V10, but when you hook a trailer up, look for the V10 to be the engine that does the job better (and based on its continued availabilty in the F350/450 confirms this).

True as far as apples on apples but theres a problem with that, though there both 6 speeds there geared different. But i still say that the 5.3L will and can tow just as much as the 5.4 with just as much confidence and control.

And the 5.3L has plenty of power to be in the 3/4 ton trucks its just not nessecary for GM. I mean look at the engine lineup, no other competitor on the market has the engine lineup as GM so thats why they have to put there smaller 5.X liter engines in there HD trucks. I mean theres a reason they made the 6L and though people dont know it but the 6L was originally planned for heavy duty trucks, then came the LS2 and other versions of the 6L. They dont need the 5.3 in HD trucks. Besides the 5.3L's are again (as i stated earlyer) at a very high volume, and these engines are in high demand at GM powertrain which would be a complete failure if they were also an option in the HD's.

Though i do understand your statements, but what information im giving here were pretty much press relese information when these trucks first debuted. (that i can recall anyways) :P

But any ways this is a ford topic so lets kinve keep the focas on ford. . .Anyways so what about this wonderful engine ford has created lol

[XCR440SP]

Originally Posted by 05ChevySilveradoSS

But any ways this is a ford topic so lets kinve keep the focas on ford. . .Anyways so what about this wonderful engine ford has created lol

I've read your comments and continue to stand on what I've said earlier. I've TOWED using both trucks (including 6 speeds) and the 5.4L does a much better job, especially if your towing something like show horses you don't want jerked around. Yes with the 6 speed it is doable, but again the 5.4 does it better.

As to what's so wonderfull about the 6.2L, nothing. Its just a high output toy engine in the Raptor (just like GM's 6.2) that will rarely be seen in the real world 1/2 tons.

It will be an impressive replacement for the 5.4L in the 3/4s that will give Ford a real advantage over the 6.0L and Hemi competitors, but sadly, I don't think will be capeable of doing the job as well as the V10 its replacing does. With Dodge eliminating the V10 and GM the 8.1L, there is little reason for Ford to continue the V10, which is too bad, it proves the theory that competition is good for all, and now no-one offers a "big block" gas engine upgrade as they all had in the past.

[Johnny P]

Our '07 Avalanche is 5.3L powered. It's a turd pulling anything over 3500lbs. It can barely maintain 4th gear on flat ground and drops to 2nd on hills, this is at 60mph.

In my experience the 6.0l behaves much like the 5.4l Ford. Good low end torque and it pulls very nicely.

[Michael_S]

If torque right from idle is the most important characteristic of an engine built for towing, why aren't any of the automakers offering factory or aftermarket supercharger for the trucks? Wouldn't that be the best solution, assuming the kit was designed with engine and transmission reliability in mind?

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by Johnny P

Our '07 Avalanche is 5.3L powered. It's a turd pulling anything over 3500lbs. It can barely maintain 4th gear on flat ground and drops to 2nd on hills, this is at 60mph.

I'm curious, what's the final drive ratio?

[Johnny P]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

I'm curious, what's the final drive ratio?

3.73. Hindsight is 20/20 and I wish we'd found a truck with 4.10 gears. It seems they get the same or better fuel economy and pull better.

The combination of little low RPM torque, 3 tons empty weight and the turd 4L60E is not a good one for towing.