Opinions on my course of action

[Clay]

Hi,

I have a 2007 H3 that I love to death. I am currently having a "situation," and I am hoping to get insight. I am clueless about cars and engines, so I will post the facts, and I am open to any information. On June 4, I brought my Hummer to a GM Service Center for a recall on the hood latch. The only reason I brought it in for the recall, was because the belt had been screeching for a few days, and I smelled antifreeze. The belt was not screeching the day I brought the truck in, but I said that I wanted it fixed. When I picked it up, they told me that the belt was in perfect condition, and the leak was due to the air condition condensation dripping on to the belt. I was okay with the diagnosis, and I drove the truck extensively in the days to follow. About 3 weeks later, on June 28, I brought the truck to Firestone for an oil change. Firestone told me that the water pump was shot, the radiator was bone dry, and the serpentine belt was chewed to shreds. They said that the screeching belt was due to the water pump and not the condensation from the a/c, and the reason it stopped screeching weeks ago was because the water and antifreeze was probably drained. Days later, I brought the Hummer back to GM and they fixed the water pump and belt (the water pump was under warranty). It is 2 weeks later, and I still smell antifreeze. I brought the truck in yesterday, and they are telling me the radiator is cracked and it will cost $600 to replace. My question is, "Is it possible that the radiator cracked because GM mis-diagnosed the water pump and radiator problem during the initial service, and I drove for three weeks with a shot water pump and empty radiator?" The GM Service Center I go to says that I am responsible, and anything could have caused the radiator to crack. They told me to take it up with GM. Should I pursue this? I have documentation of all my visits. The problem is, I am not a mechanic, and I have no clue how an engine works. For all I know, this is all unrelated, and I am knocking my head against a brick wall!

Thanks,
Clay

[Aura XR]

You didn't mention whether or not you added coolant/water to the system during the time span. I find it hard to believe that a) Firestone would send you on your way with a completely empty cooling system; and b) that the engine hasn't melted down in the time you drove it without coolant.

I would venture to say the screeching you might have heard was the belt slipping on the water pump pulley, not sure if it was from coolant weeping out of the pump or if the pump actually seized. Have you checked the coolant at all during this time period? Was any steam coming out from under the hood?

[Clay]

Hi,

Thanks for writing. Regarding Firestone, they asked what I wanted to do, so I called GM. GM said it was covered-warranty, so I brought it to them on the first available appointment without using the truck in the interim.

Believe it or not, but the hood latch on my Hummer is broken. I thought the recall on the hood was for the hood release latch, but I was told it was a separate issue. Needless to say, I never opened the hood (I couldn't and still can't). During this period of time, a) The truck never overheated, b) There was never steam, c) My temperature gauge never rose past normal. Even if I could have opened the hood, I would not have done so because there was no indication that anything was wrong......other than the initial screeching of the belt. In all honesty, if I had opened the hood, I would have no clue what I was looking at! :-)

Clay

[MrCritical]

Everyone's ignorant about something.
But it's time to learn the basics. First of all get the hood release repaired where anyone can open the hood. Then learn what you can.

[Aura XR]

You indicate that the temperature gauge never went past normal, which makes me think that you did not have a loss of all coolant because it is measuring something, and that's not air. You were probably leaking it through the crack, hence the antifreeze smell, but still had enough in there to cool the engine.

But, if the hood latch was broken, how did Firestone open it to change the oil?

At any rate, it would be hard to prove that the water pump could cause the radiator to crack. I mean, I guess it is possible, but a more plausible cause could be either road debris or thermal shock. I own a Saturn, which can go through radiators faster than a fat kid through a 5# bag of Smarties. One of the biggest causes of them cracking radiators was from people opening the expansion tank cap before the system was overnight cool (something to do with vacuum and coolant expansion/pressure).

[Clay]

Yes, Mr. Critical. I understand that. Believe me, I have been told to learn the difference between the oil cap and the windshield wiper fluid cap on many different occasions. :-) However, I assure you, whenever I have any sort of problem, I bring my vehicles in for service without delay. I am the type of person that keeps the car repair people in business. I retired at 40 years old, so I was good at something! :-) I know this all sounds ignorant to a car person, but that is why I buy new, keep for two years, service constantly, and sell before problems arise! I feel that in this particular case, I did what I was supposed to do. The GM dealer misdiagnosed. No? Clay

[Clay]

Aura;

<< You indicate that the temperature gauge never went past normal, which makes me think that you did not have a loss of all coolant because it is measuring something, and that's not air. You were probably leaking it through the crack, hence the antifreeze smell, but still had enough in there to cool the engine. >>

Okay, that makes sense.

<< But, if the hood latch was broken, how did Firestone open it to change the oil? >>

The hood release has been broken for over a year, and I have had many oil changes in the interim. Nobody ever addressed or acknowledged the issue with me, so I left well enough alone. I figured that there must be a way to open the hood if they were doing the services without mentioning it to me! (By the way, GM said they will fix it, but the part will take several days to come in.)

<< At any rate, it would be hard to prove that the water pump could cause the radiator to crack. I mean, I guess it is possible, but a more plausible cause could be either road debris or thermal shock. I own a Saturn, which can go through radiators faster than a fat kid through a 5# bag of Smarties. One of the biggest causes of them cracking radiators was from people opening the expansion tank cap before the system was overnight cool (something to do with vacuum and coolant expansion/pressure). >>

Okay, sounds like you are saying, "Stop banging your head against a brick wall." I will probably let this go, and perhaps I will take Mr Critical's advice and learn my ass from a hole in the ground! :-)

Thanks,
Clay

[Backlash]

Yes, sounds like they did miss it the first time.
How many miles are on it? The radiator is covered for 3yr - 36k miles.
The water pump is covered 5yr - 100k by the Powertrain warranty.

[Aura XR]

Clay

Just noticed you're from NEPA. Having lived there for a few years myself, let me offer some advise.

Not sure where you're going to which dealer, but I would suggest heading over to Scranton or Wilkes-Barre (or the towns between them) if a Hummer dealer exists there. I know my parents had issues with Ashley Chevrolet, the local Chevy dealer in Honesdale when it came to service and they flat-out refused to deal with me when I was replacing my old Grand Prix and was eye-balling a Camaro (their loss). You state that you retired at 40, so it makes me think you're a transplant, probably from NY. I learned from living in a small town, if you're not native, your not going to be treated well (I was going to use another term but decided to be nice).

That's not to say there aren't great people there, or repair shops that are honest. I had a great mechanic off Route 590 by Woodloch until he retired. But I found it more hit-or-miss. Kost Tires used to give me great service, but they ruined my rims because their balance weights reacted with the clear coat on my rims and they peeled and corroded all around the weights.

OK, getting back on topic, if the radiator is not under warranty, see if a small shop can replace it; it might be cheaper than $600 (though I don't know how much they are because I've replaced them myself).

[Clay]

Backlash, I am way over the miles for a replacement radiator. I usually get rid of my vehicles every two years, but I love my Hummer. I lived (my house is under contract at the moment) on the top of a mountain, and the Hummer was my best friend. It is a 2007 with 94,000. The replacement is way overdue, but since I cannot get a new Hummer, I am at a loss. Coincidentally, I am in the market for two new vehicles, and this has definitely thrown a wrench into the decision making! I will *not* buy from Valley Chevrolet!

Aura, I am from Southern New Jersey (AC area and then Cherry Hill). But yes, I am a transplant. I lived in the Poconos, but I am currently going to Valley Chevrolet in Wilkes Barre. Up until last month, I have to say I loved them and trusted them 100%. Last year, when I put the truck in for new brakes and rotors on the front and back, they returned it and said it only needed one set of brakes and NO rotors. That built a lot of trust. I am more than willing to eat the cost of the radiator. This is not about money. I just feel that the dealer had a certain amount of responsibility, and they could have stepped up. However, I also take blame in that I should learn how to look after my own vehicles. I am going to eat this one. I told them to order and install the radiator, and hopefully I can pick up the truck tomorrow. In the end, it is their loss. If they would have acknowledged some possible responsibility, I would have let it go and picked up the tab. Now I will pick up the tab, go elsewhere, and purchase two new vehicles elsewhere. Now, what do I get to replace a Hummer and a CTS? :-)

Thanks Everybody!

Clay

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

I don't think you'd crack a radiator from low fluid level or anything else like that. But maybe they screwed it with the hood latch repair (but since you say it was screeching earlier, I doubt it) Or if they've been opening the hood from outside...

[chakis24]

first of all welcome, too bad it wasnt under better circumstances.

i wouldve taken it to gm. if they diagnosed the vehicle properly then none of this wouldve happened. dont feel like you should know what the problem (i mean, it wouldnt hurt but) was- its their job to figure it out.

id replace your cts with a cts-v coupe and youre hummer with an h3 alpha if you can find one, otherwise get a wrangler unlimited since gm has nothing that replaced the h3. but thats just me.