Dexron VI (6)?????? - Page 3

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Thread: Dexron VI (6)??????

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    kenleyf,

    Good to know - probably / possibly in more ways than one..

    Related to that - and a post or two back......

    See, every time you tell me something this guy said....I cringe just a little more...or maybe I'm wrong on this one , but is this not in fact the RPO code for something in the the 4L80 /4L85E family ??? ( Really the 4L85E )

    Anybody else ?

    As far as 4 sp AT's go, - that's the better group to come out of not the weaker one - way stronger and makes way more sense for your vehicle.

    It will inevitably have a larger fluid capacity of some sort as well.

    I'm going to try and check that - back later - its Sunday so maybe real later on that.

    As to this -

    I do not think the shop actually did a full flush, just a pan drop, filter cleaning/replacement and refill which was the 6 qts.
    There is no question about that part.

    Nothing in the world of post WW2 AT's installed in vehicles 1/3 of your size on up has gotten by with 6 quarts total system fluid capacity - not even close - its definitely a pan 'drain' only - probably / possibly not a real strong one at that.

    Did you have to pay for any parts besides fluid ?

    Does your receipt say anything about cleaning the pan and magnets and replacing a 'filter' ? etc

    On the ( far ) outside edge, does your pan have a drain plug ?
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 03-15-2009 at 04:37 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    My receipt has fluid and a "transmission service" charge. I do not know what this includes which is my fault for not asking. I told them to flush the system and it is now obvious to me that they did not do that. They did mention cleaning the filter so I hope they either cleaned it or replaced it. How do you clean an AT filter. I have always just replaced them when I have done it myself.

    I checked the pan and it does not have a drain bolt, just the standard bolts that hold the pan to the transmission.

    It really bugs me that 1.) I do not know the exact transmission that is in my truck and 2.) I do not know the actual capacity of the transmission.

    I plan to call the local dealership tomorrow and get both of these questions answered!

    Thanks for the help.
    Kenley

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Ok, more good to know.

    That's the way to go - and again with possible error because of not being there etc - man, I just do not like the picture I'm gettin' here - no way , no how - not on any of it in regards to your shop.

    How much was the total if you don't mind me asking, and at what mileage and age was this done at ?

    Do you happen to know how long they actually spent on this or anything concerning what you might of seen them doing ?

    Was this like a 10 -20 minute deal or was it more like 45 minutes / hour ?

    Just to be completely clear, it's a 'two' item breakdown on your receipt ie

    1. ) Trans service XXXX

    2. ) 6 QUARTS of DEX III E ATF XXXX.00$

    3. ) optional shop /supply fee(s)

    4. ) TAX

    5. ) TOTAL
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 03-15-2009 at 07:29 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Weird.

    Not saying anything or implying accuracy ........... this is what I found.

    RPO Description
    M80 TRANSMISSION AUTO/MAN 6 SPEED, OPEL, M20, 0.74 6TH, ELECTRONIC, (WR), (TIPTRONIC)

    **************
    **************

    Silverado 1500SS 2004-06 V8 6.0L 4 Spd RWD/4X4 4L65E

    Silverado, Sierra,1500-3500 1995-06 V6 5.4L 5.7L 6.0L 4 Spd RWD/4X4 4L60E..... < Classic / and - ? >

    Silverado, Sierra,1500-3500 1995-06 V8 5.0L 5.7L 6.0L 6.5L 4 Spd RWD/4X4 4L80E.... < Classic / and - ? >

    *************
    *************

    Silverado, Sierra,1500-3500 1995-06 V8 4.8L 5.0L 5.3L 4 Spd RWD/4X4 4L60E

    Silverado, Sierra,1500-3500 1995-06 V8 7.4L 8.1L 4 Spd RWD/4X4 4L80E

    Silverado, Sierra,1500-3500 1995-06 V8 6.6L (Diesel) 4 Spd RWD/4X4 4L80E



    ************

    Silverado, Sierra, 2500-3500 2000-06 V8 8.1L 5 Spd RWD/4X4 1000(Allison)


    Silverado, Sierra,2500-3500 2000-06 V8,6.0L 6.6L (Diesel) 5 Spd RWD/4X4 1000(Allison)

    ********

    Silverado, Sierra,1500-3500 1995-96 V6 4.3L 4 Spd RWD/4X4 4L60E
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 03-15-2009 at 07:26 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICA 123 View Post
    Ok, more good to know.

    That's the way to go - and again with possible error because of not being there etc - man, I just do not like the picture I'm gettin' here - no way , no how - not on any of it in regards to your shop.

    How much was the total if you don't mind me asking, and at what mileage and age was this done at ? 48812 mileage, $100 total.

    Do you happen to know how long they actually spent on this or anything concerning what you might of seen them doing ?

    Was this like a 10 -20 minute deal or was it more like 45 minutes / hour ? It was 70% of an hour so close to 45 minutes.

    Just to be completely clear, it's a 'two' item breakdown on your receipt ie

    1. ) Trans service XXXX Yes, $56.00

    2. ) 6 QUARTS of DEX III E ATF XXXX.00$ Yes, $2.85 per quart.

    3. ) optional shop /supply fee(s) Yes, $2.00

    4. ) TAX

    5. ) TOTAL
    Plus, Trans. Filter $19.44 and Gasket $5.00

    We will see this afternoon but it looks like the shop intends to make good on this by not charging me ANY labor and by flushing the system with Dexron VI and only charging me the difference on the first 6 quarts. Right now they are saying all the right things I just hope that is the case when I pick it up.

    Dealership says my VIN comes up with a 4L70E transmission which is RPO code M70 not M80 which is what is in my glovebox. Frustrating.

    Thanks for all your help.
    Kenley

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Well, in light of all your useful info and what's happenin' at the shop......

    - it 'sounds' like its headed in the right direction - almost as if 'somebody' else over there 'took' another 'look' at the 'situation'.

    On the other hand....... 4L70 ??? - never heard of it and for dang sure never heard of it in regards to anything remotely similar to your truck.

    On the otherhand, doesn't mean much, I'm out of date and really only know a little bit about certain ( old ) Ford and Dodge pick-me-up product.


    ***********

    FWIW, I'd be watching exactly what they do

    Did anyone give you any fluid capacities for this -70 unit ?

    ***********

    Evidently I'm way out of date - M70 --Transmission - Auto 4 Spd, HMD, 4L70-E, Super Duty

    And -

    2009 Model Year Hydra-Matic 4L60 (M30) / 4L65 (M32) / 4L70 (M70) Car and Truck Transmissions

    Hydra-Matic 4L60 / 4L65 / 4L70 four-speed automatic rear- and four-wheel-drive transmission



    NEW APPLICATIONS:

    The HUMMER H3 Truck will be introduced with the 3.7L LLR, and 5.3L LH8 engines.

    Both of these engines will be combined with the M30 rear wheel drive 4L60.

    The LLR will utilize a 258mm torque converter while the LH8 will be combined with the 300mm converter.

    The major focus of activities for the 2009 MY will be cost and quality improvements.

    ***********

    FULL DESCRIPTIONS OF NEW OR CHANGED FEATURES


    OVERVIEW

    The Hydra-Matic 4L60 / 4L65 are differentiated primarily because of gearset design.

    Each of the two planetary gearsets in these four-speed automatic transmissions have four pinion gears in the 4L60, and five pinion gears in the 4L65 and 4L70.

    The 4L65 was introduced in the 2001 model year as a heavy duty (HD) variant with more robust parts that provide increased strength.

    Beginning in 2002, many of the technologies from the 4L65 applications that add durability have been incorporated into the 4L60, such as more robust bushings and bearings.

    The 4L70 is a variation of the five-pinion 4L65, with additional strengthening in the output shaft and reaction internal gear to handle increased engine torque.

    The Hydra-Matic 4L60 / 4L65 / 4L70 are also characterized by rigid structures and low noise designs.

    These transmissions are state of the art for rear-drive and four-wheel-drive cars and trucks because of their adaptive shift electronic controls and GM’s proprietary Electronic Controlled Capacity Clutch (ECCC) technology.

    The ECCC allows sophisticated variable clutch slip to dampen engine pulses, providing smooth shifting and driveline feel.

    The transmissions also take directions from vehicle powertrain control modules to avoid hunting between gears when climbing hills.

    All domestic applications utilize , the stand-alone T42 transmission control module, which allows sophisticated software control of the transmission.

    An extremely versatile transmission, the 4L60 / 4L65 / 4L70 functions in a wide range of applications.

    Its sophisticated electronic controls and high-torque capabilities allow it to serve in pickups and SUVs ranging from the compact Chevrolet Canyon and GMC Colorado pickup trucks to the roomy GMC Yukon XL.

    Because of a new input speed sensor added for the 2006 Model Year, the 4L60 is able to be tuned to match the brand character of the new mid-size rugged

    A new transmission fluid, DEXRON®-VI, was developed for the 2006 Model Year to behave more consistently during temperature and other environmental variations, as well as to provide even lubrication of the moving surfaces of the transmission.

    This fluid is validated in all 4L60/4L65/4L70 transmissions.

    The 4L60 / 4L65 / 4L70 are produced in two plants, Toledo, OH and Ramos Arizpe, Mexico.

    The Ramos Arizpe plant has state-of-the-art gear processing systems, and similar systems have now been upgraded at the Toledo plant, which has been building transmissions since 1982.

    As part of a corporate-wide reduction of environmentally hazardous materials, the use of lead in aluminum, bushings, and bearings will in essence be eliminated, and the 4L series will comply with both GM and EU requirements.


    FOUR-WHEEL DRIVE OPTIONS

    The 4L60 / 4L65 / 4L70 transmission is mated to several different transfer cases used by four- and all-wheel-drive applications.

    The Colorado and Canyon pickups use the Isuzu model T150 part-time two-speed transfer case with electric engagement of driving ranges.

    The Trailblazer and Envoy use the NP model 226, which features an electrically operated clutch pack that functions as a center differential for full-time use on any surface.

    The Trailblazer SS uses an NV 120 with a unique Torsen center differential.

    This is an automatic torque-sensing center differential that detects slippage mechanically and sends torque to the non-slipping axle.

    The Chevrolet Silverado ( Classic ) and GMC Sierra ( Classic ) pickups use the NP models 246, 261 and 263.

    The NP246 has an electrically operated clutch pack to send torque to the front axle while the NP263 has a 2 speed part time electric range selection.

    The NP261 is a conventional manual part-time transfer case.

    The ( Classic ) pickup series bows in late 2007 replaced by the New for 2007, Silverado and Sierra series trucks.

    New Magna transfer cases debut replacing each of the current NP products; MP1625 and 1626 2 speed electric, MP3023 and 3024 2 speed active and MP1222 and 1225 2 speed manual selection.

    The new Magna line brings improved powertrain control integration and band width for torque input.

    Borg Warner continues with the BW 4493 and 4494 2 speed AWD unit in the GMT345, an updated BW4484 2 speed AWD for increased band width in the H2 and the BW4481 is used in the premium full-size SUVs.
    The possibly 'odd' thing here is some other stuff I was reading seems to 'suggest' this M70 appears first in MYR 2007 product - as always anything on the Internet can be wrong.

    Anyway, some ( old ) background.

    - The strength of the 4L60-E has turned out to be remarkable.

    Now a darling of the transmission building aftermarket, the 4L60-E is capable of transmitting impressive power from both truck and performance car applications.


    Identification

    The Late 4L60-E transmission has a three piece case of cast aluminum alloy; bellhousing, main case, and tailhousing.

    GM shortened the package to 21.9" long - equivalent to a manual transmission of 15.4".

    The input shaft has 30 splines. The transmission typically has pinned flare & o-ring fittings on the passenger side for a cooling circuit.

    The transmission has a square oil pan.

    The key distinction of the Later 4L60-E (1997-2006) from the Early 4L60-E (1992-1997) or 4L60 (1990-1992) or 700R4 (1982-1989)

    is the six-bolt "hex" rear output or tailhousing / adapter pattern.

    The previous versions featured a four-bolt square bolt pattern at the adapter or tailhousing.

    Additionally, the removeable bellhousing is also another distinguishing feature.

    Two-wheel-drive versions have tailhousings and typically a longer output shafts than four-wheel-drive versions, which have various adapter assemblies and a shorter output shaft.

    ************

    The transmission weighs 146 pounds dry, and 162 wet. < 4l60-E / Year and variant unk. >

    It requires 8.4 quarts (9.64" torque converter) or 11.4 quarts (11.81" torque converter) of Dextron III fluid < Written pre Dex 6 ie earlier than xxx 2005 >, which the factory claims to be a lifetime fill.

    Deep pan versions require as much as 14 quarts.

    Length and volume of the cooling circuit will vary and will require an additional amount.

    **************

    The 4L60-E is found in nearly every GM rear-wheel-drive application, including the C/K Truck, Sonoma, Jimmy, Tahoe, Yukon, Astro, Safari, Suburban, Bravada, Firebird, Camaro and Corvette.

    GM's alternative designations of these transmissions are:

    * 4L60E = M30
    * 4L65E = M32
    * 4L70E = M70

    In fact, the "E" has now been removed, ostensibly due to the fact that all GM automatics are now electronically controlled and the distinction is no longer useful.

    New Versions Rising

    The 4L60E is now concurrently produced along with its strengthened progenitors; the 4L65-E and the 4L70-E. < Written in 2006 ? >

    They share most components and improvements together.

    The 4L65-E was introduced in 2001 as an HD version of the 4L60-E.

    It has a stronger planetary and a strength-improved output shaft.

    4L70-E transmission is a further improvement still, and share most components.

    However, these versions have strengthened and improved components for the significant power outputs of GM's impressive line of Gen. III+ engines.

    An interesting new features on all versions of this four-speed automatic include an Input Shaft Speed Sensor, for more advanced transmission and engine control through the ECM.

    This sensor is located in the front pump assembly.

    It is to be fully implemented in all versions by 2008.

    Individuals swapping these parts through and across years should be aware of the compaitibility issues that this may present.
    http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/4l60e.htm
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 03-16-2009 at 02:47 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICA 123 View Post
    Well, in light of all your useful info and what's happenin' at the shop......

    - it 'sounds' like its headed in the right direction - almost as if 'somebody' else over there 'took' another 'look' at the 'situation'.

    On the other hand....... 4L70 ??? - never heard of it and for dang sure never heard of it in regards to anything remotely similar to your truck.

    On the otherhand, doesn't mean much, I'm out of date and really only know a little bit about certain ( old ) Ford and Dodge product

    ***********
    FWIW, I'd be watching exactly what they do

    Did anyone give you any fluid capacities for this -70 unit ? Dealership parts guy said around 14 qts. but he did not give me an exact amount. This is for a full flush/bone dry and refill. I do not understand why this is not standard information like the engine oil capacity provided in the owner's manual.

    ***********

    Evidently I'm way out of date - M70 --Transmission - Auto 4 Spd, HMD, 4L70-E, Super Duty

    And -
    See above.

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Interesting.

    14Q w/o cooler, lines etc 'sounds' right for the box and tc and is consistent with the one older article above.

    Just as a fun guess, - you probably have an installed / system total of 16 -19 ? and depending on this and that need about 19 - 22 to fully service.

    I'd ask your shop guy to keep track of what he uses and how, so you can perhaps get a good 'system' or 'installed' total close approximation and a good approximate 'service' total amount.

    Almost 'sounds' like you got a better, newer AT early - maybe that explains a lot of the confusion here.

    Do you happen to know your build date info?

    I wonder if it was late in the MYr 2006 production run.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Quote Originally Posted by AMERICA 123 View Post
    Interesting.

    14Q w/o cooler, lines etc 'sounds' right for the box and tc and is consistent with the one older article above.

    Just as a fun guess, - you probably have an installed / system total of 16 -19 ? and depending on this and that need about 19 - 22 to fully service.

    I'd ask your shop guy to keep track of what he uses and how, so you can perhaps get a good 'system' or 'installed' total close approximation and a good approximate 'service' total amount.

    Almost 'sounds' like you got a better, newer AT early - maybe that explains a lot of the confusion here.

    Do you happen to know your build date info? 12/14/2005

    I wonder if it was late in the MYr 2006 production run.
    The shop made good on everything and the receipt says they used 15 quarts. While I am not sure 100% of my trust is restored, they made good and did what they should have done.

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    kenleyf,

    Well, close enough and the key, good for you - that'll do it for this time.

    All in all, in spite of the aggravation you now very probably came out ahead.

    Hopefully for the next guy and thereafter, some things will be different in the future at that shop of yours as well.

    Btw, on that receipt of yours from earlier, those looked like good prices and then some compared to around here anyway.
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 03-16-2009 at 11:05 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Thank you for all your help and counsel. I agree that if they did what they said they did then I came out way ahead. Take care.
    Kenley

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Quote Originally Posted by kenleyf View Post
    We will see this afternoon but it looks like the shop intends to make good on this by not charging me ANY labor and by flushing the system with Dexron VI and only charging me the difference on the first 6 quarts. Right now they are saying all the right things I just hope that is the case when I pick it up.
    If your happy with the results, then all is good I guess. But since they dropped the pan and put the wrong fluid in, that in turn "contaminated" the entire remaining fliud with D3. So you basically ended up having to pay more to have the system totally flushed.... IMO, they screwed up and should have footed the entire bill on the flush and the refill with D6, maybe charging you the differance on the first 6 qts only. Hope they also replaced the filter again.

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    Quote Originally Posted by kenleyf View Post
    Thank you for all your help and counsel. I agree that if they did what they said they did then I came out way ahead. Take care.
    Kenley
    Yea, well, there's that - 'possibility'.

    I wasn't going to bring it up - or the total amount used.


    **************

    There are lots of ways to tell D3 from D6 - besides the right kind of analysis - which costs enough for accuracy - that you might as well put the money towards a known to be good D6 flush.

    A crude one subject to lots of error, is to smell the dipstick especially before you run it much.

    If you have a bottle of each handy for reference, you can determine things better.( Even better if you have a bottle of the brand of product they use for the D3.)

    Most run of the mill D3 product smells distinctly different than D6 and if you will smells much 'stronger' - ie more pungent..

    Also in cold enough weather your trans will 'feel' different from time to time - including when you first put it into gear.

    Run of the mill D3 also starts to 'feel' different with mileage - sometimes right away, sometimes in as little as 4 -5,000 miles - always by 30,000 for sure - even on the real old equipment.

    Anyway, you're welcome - its was good talkin' to you.

    I want to learn about these kinds of things - have a hunch at some point a Duramax 4.5 will figure into the picture eventually - sure as hell hope its with a GM product..

    If at some point you think they screwed up and money's tight and you 'need' to 'holdover' until your next change grab some of the Lube Gard "Platinum" product and use it.

    That's not your best first choice, or your second choice - but with that its a workable third choice for a little while without towing and other high load, high temp running etc. ( This is not directed at the Lube Gard product - which is more than good for sure - when used properly )

    In fact, again with error possible that can be used as a crude indicator.

    If you put it in after you have some mileage on your fresh fluid and nothing changes -'odds' are you have D6.

    If it goes the other way, 'odds' are are it was D3.

    You can also do this for effect with fresh fluid if it's cold enough outside and you pay attention - especially on the first start of the day.

    The other 'good' thing is that oversimplified ever so slightly it won't 'hurt' anything in an overall sense if you do in fact have D6 in there - in some ways it'll possibly be constructive although in a selective and or part time or erratic sense - and only more down the road.
    Last edited by AMERICA 123; 03-17-2009 at 03:21 PM.
    "From tech stocks to high gas prices, Goldman Sachs has engineered every major market manipulation since the Great Depression — and they're about to do it again."
    "The world's most powerful investment bank is a great vampire squid wrapped around the face of humanity, relentlessly jamming its blood funnel into anything that smells like money."
    "If America is circling the drain, Goldman Sachs has found a way to be that drain — " Matt Taibbi

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    I'm concerned about internal leakage into electrical devices. I understand fluid leakage into the turbine speed sensor causes it to fail. Typically synthetic lubricants are more likely to leak, which could be a problem here.

    Is there any more info on this?

    Thanks
    Last edited by jdrubin; 08-13-2009 at 11:46 AM.

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    Re: Dexron VI (6)??????

    I wouldn't worry, todays transmissions have more electronics than ever, even the controller is internal. I am sure GM did their homework before releasing Dex 6. We have done many back services and have had zero problems. If anything Dexron 6 seems to be a higher viscosity than Dexron III so I wouldn't worry about leakage.
    30 Year Gm Dealer Tech.
    GM World Class Tech with 9 certs.
    ASE Master with L1; 12 certs. total

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