here we go again, my mother's new car!

[GMCSonoma]

Originally Posted by Bravada

Actually, it's almost as awful... I sincerely don't know what you see in it. The side view is borderline revolting. It's ALL wrong. The nice front end won't save it.

LOL, you continue to amuse & amaze me!

[Bravada]

You can say you don't see it, you can say it isn't there, you can live in denial. But the awful Toyota Camry rear doorline is out there, SCREAMING at you. At that's just a beginning of this mess - three separate body lines, with a bonnet too low and short to fit the cabin, the cabin of a supposedly sporty car with an almost horizontal beltline (but the awful "ascending" handles still made a honorable appearance), and then suddenly a huge hunchback of a trunk sitting there far above the spine of the car's design.

[powervette]

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

LOL, you continue to amuse & amaze me!

he amazes me too, I don't know any other car-philospohers.
The last post we have here is a perfect example of something only he understands.

[GMCSonoma]

Originally Posted by powervette

he amazes me too, I don't know any other car-philospohers.
The last post we have here is a perfect example of something only he understands.

I thought it was me!

Anyways...to each their own...he thinks the CTS, LaCrosse & Lucerne is garbage...I think all French cars, most Asian cars & Chrysler products are...

As I said...to each their own!

[tomprice]

I think you can't really say anything about Bravada's skill to pick a car design to pieces in seconds when you can't offer a detailed analysis/opinion yourself apart from 'OMG it'll do so well shut up haterzzzzz'

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

I thought it was me!

Anyways...to each their own...he thinks the CTS, LaCrosse & Lucerne is garbage...I think all French cars, most Asian cars & Chrysler products are...

As I said...to each their own!

I don't really care for most of the last two, but I'm intrigued: which models don't you like, and what not about them? (french cars that is....?)

btw, I **LOVE** this:

Originally Posted by powervette

base Cadillac BLS/ Loaded Saab 9-3

PMSL!

[Bravada]

Anyways...to each their own...he thinks the CTS, LaCrosse & Lucerne is garbage...I think all French cars, most Asian cars & Chrysler products are...

Only the LaCrosse is garbage. CTS is ugly and Lucerne is absolutely forgettable (though a strong seller, highlighting the potential of the Buick brand).

Chrysler products are genuinely garbage for the most part - very consistent performance by Auburn Hills.

[GMCSonoma]

Originally Posted by tomprice

I don't really care for most of the last two, but I'm intrigued: which models don't you like, and what not about them? (french cars that is....?)

I was crushed @ a young age of 20 when working for a GM/AMC-Jeep-Renault dealer...

I always thought Renaults, Citroens & Peugeots were the cats arse until I started working for the aforementioned dealership...

We had 2 techs that were really good with Renault, we also brought it customer pay work in the terms of Peugeot...and we even serviced several Citroens in that day...

I guess when I saw Renaults & Peugeots getting towed in 10 fold over a GM product of the time...mostly when it was raining or snowing outside...or if the temps dropped below 25*F...
Forget it if the car was automatic transmissioned....I could go on & on & on about various issues...

Also the crappy, yet arrogant parts support Renault provided...parts were grossly expensive, yet poorly manufactured...as were the cars themselves.

Every time I saw a new Renault delivered I'd automatically think...well there is a future pissed-off customer!

I'd take ANY 1980's X-car hands down over any French car...that's the opinion I gathered "behind the glass doors"....

[tomprice]

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

Also the crappy, yet arrogant parts support Renault provided...parts were grossly expensive, yet poorly manufactured...as were the cars themselves.

Every time I saw a new Renault delivered I'd automatically think...well there is a future pissed-off customer!

Things have changed now with newer Citreugeoaults but I suppose I can't convince you so I'm not going to try.

Thing is, the bit I've quoted is dead right, even now. At least in the UK (Bravada, are mainland renault dealers this bad?) people who drive top-of-the-range exotic machines such as Avantimes (google! ) and Vel Satis (google! ) and even usually just normal cars like the Clio (google! ) and Megane 225 (google! ) get extremely poor service whether for parts or just servicing - one tale that has come my way courtesy of an Avantime-owning friend is that of being forced to cancel a job interview whilst waiting for transport, and discovering after you told them to call you when the car was ready that they were expecting you to call them!

I've no idea about the makes but I've heard nothing good about Renault dealers....

[GMCSonoma]

I wasn't talking about Renault dealers, as I worked for one...I was talking about support from Renault itself!!!!!

After Chrysler took over (WHICH WERE EQUALLY AS BAD) we had this hotline to call and it was staffed my these "renault specialists" they were TOTAL aq'S...

[powervette]

Anyways...to each their own...he thinks the CTS, LaCrosse & Lucerne is garbage

If I asked my father what he thinks about the CTS, he would call it garbage as well (after seing the badge). But the same man supports A/B-Class purchase. You see how much logic is here. I hate to call LaCrosse garbage because this name still reminds me a beautiful all-American concept car we have seen a few years ago. Compared to it, the production Lacrosse is a garbage without a doubt. Lucerne is a different story but it still not differs much from an Impala, especially the interior so I wouldn't call it premium.

I think all French cars,& Chrysler products are...

My opinion about French products was exactly the same but it has changed a bit. French are nowadays able to make a good looking car inside and out. There was a Peugeot 205 in my family long time ago and it was a terrible experience to maintain it. Gladly we used to have a repair pit in our garage . But times have changed a bit. Present Peugeots aren't worse than Turkey-made Toyotas. They can last for two years in Polish conditions and up to three in western Europe. Still when I compare my friend's Renault Clio that he leased at the same time when I bought my Astra, the difference between those two is like night and day. Clio which isn't the most advanced car in the world has had simply too many problems with electronics which is a proof that ownership of French cars is still sort of a nightmare.

most Asian cars

design-wise, yes, most of them

Chrysler products

yup, that's very sad. But nobody should be surprised with it, as Chrysler has been treated like an underdog for the last few years. I had high hopes concerning Cerberus but they were killed very quickly when that silly company decided not to offer in Europe the best they have - the Challenger.

I think you can't really say anything about Bravada's skill to pick a car design to pieces in seconds when you can't offer a detailed analysis/opinion yourself apart from 'OMG it'll do so well shut up haterzzzzz'

I knew someone gonna say something like that. I am glad You did it as I never feel any sort of aggression in Your posts.
I agree that he has skills that enable him to make such developed comments. I admire them in some way (use of sophisticated English etc.) but they are laughable to me in other way. Maybe because I treat car design like art not like practical craftsmanship. Those design theories would make more sense if the member we are talking about showed us a drawing what Cadillac or a perfect car should like in his opinion.
Coming back to 'OMG it'll do so well shut up haterzzzzz' I used to use this kind of persuasion only at the beginning of my membership so don't accuse me of it anymore. Sometimes I want to make a comment like that but I stop myself from it, that's why I don't have let's say 5000 posts but only around 1800. The other reason for that of course is that I don't have a mundane desk-job and I am not glued to the PC.

Now can we go back to the subject?
I see that black bar of soap isn't something interesting to talk about. I may take more pictures of it to warm up the atmosphere...

[GMCSonoma]

Good point Powervette...back to the topic @ hand!

[tomprice]

Originally Posted by GMCSonoma

I wasn't talking about Renault dealers, as I worked for one...I was talking about support from Renault itself!!!!!

After Chrysler took over (WHICH WERE EQUALLY AS BAD) we had this hotline to call and it was staffed my these "renault specialists" they were TOTAL aq'S...

Errr...

I don't think i was trying to say that, I'm just saying that Renault are still hopelessly incompetent at anything repair related... [ ]

Originally Posted by powervette

Clio which isn't the most advanced car in the world has had simply too many problems with electronics which is a proof that ownership of French cars is still sort of a nightmare.

Did it have a rattly sunroof by any chance? It's hilarious being in so many rentals with creaks and ominous rattles from the sunroof as if it's about to cave in...

Originally Posted by powervette

I knew someone gonna say something like that. I am glad You did it as I never feel any sort of aggression in Your posts.
I agree that he has skills that enable him to make such developed comments. I admire them in some way (use of sophisticated English etc.) but they are laughable to me in other way. Maybe because I treat car design like art not like practical craftsmanship. Those design theories would make more sense if the member we are talking about showed us a drawing what Cadillac or a perfect car should like in his opinion.

Hmm, I don't know, but I can almost see everything Bravada says about designs. I don't think I'm quite with him on the CTS (though I do agree with the freaky door handles and absurdly high rear) but then cars designs aren't all art; there are bits or even wholecars that are suitable to be ripped to shreds and square rooted down to nothing.

Originally Posted by powervette

Coming back to 'OMG it'll do so well shut up haterzzzzz' I used to use this kind of persuasion only at the beginning of my membership so don't accuse me of it anymore. Sometimes I want to make a comment like that but I stop myself from it, that's why I don't have let's say 5000 posts but only around 1800. The other reason for that of course is that I don't have a mundane desk-job and I am not glued to the PC.

First stop - I wasn't accusing you or GMCSononoma, though i admit re-reading it does seem like it; i've seen plenty of occasions where someone has been rubbished for being an 'import collaborator' whne in fact they just don't like a car. Sometimes me aswell.

I think the reason I seem to be glued to the PC is that I'm currently wondering where 350 105mm Light Gins have gone.......it says they went to Afghanistan......but...errr....they didn't... ......so there's my little nightmare for the next few months.

Golly, what a thread. Actually......see my thread in the General discussion following on from a brief moment of inspiration......courtesy of this debate.

[GMCSonoma]

Well if it makes you & Bravada feel better tomprice, I always liked British, Czech & Italian cars!!! Weird, eh?

I even converted a Chevy S10 pickup into a "Vauxhall", just as a joke to my Dad actually...as a child I didn't like Chevy's and after I bought this old S10 ($700) as he was giving me a hard time on how I would actually buy a chevy...

so my pal in Yorkshire hooked me up with some emblems & decals and & viola! A Vauxhall S10! I even converted the clear reverse lamps with amber bulbs and made them turnsignals!

If I find a picture of it...I'll post it, as I even had a UK issue front license plate for it!

[mikmak]

Wow, that one has a radio AND speakers! What luxury

CTS Door handles are weird but overall, I think it has promise.

[powervette]

Originally Posted by mikmak

Wow, that one has a radio AND speakers!

I've got something you may be interested in:
new prestigious import in the family (pics inside)