Test drove 4 cars this evening

[supraracer]

Originally Posted by CBECK

Actually the guy who sold the $20 pair of slacks made money. Anyone in "their right mind" wouldn't go to a store that was a "BIG DEAL" without being in the market. That's like going to the commissary and tasting the fruit and not buy.

We're all in the market whether it be today or a couple years from now. Somtimes I just want to see how different cars are comming along because we're always need to planing for that next purchase.

[MalibuMaxxSS]

This is gonna turn into one of those 'stop wasting a salesmans time' Thread.....

what would going to test drive a car, that your NOT going to buy for 2 years do for you, whatever you drive WILL NOT be the same in 2 years..its really just stupid, and a waste of everyones time. Glad I ask a few questions before I throw people the keys.

[MalibuMaxxSS]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

That's a piss poor attitude, I hope to God, you're not really a car salesman.

I test drive cars every once and a while....when I say the words, "I am not looking to buy today, but I'd like to drive one"........they can say no. Or they can let me drive. I have never been turned away, and these days I don't think any dealership in their right mind would treat a potential customer so rudely. A new car isn't a $20 pair of slacks from Sears, it's a BIG deal.

you still leave the salesmen thniking he has a chance to sell you a vehicle in the short term when in reality he does not, how bout tell him you are just wanting to joy ride in the dealers cars and not going to buy for a year or so and see what kind of response you get.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by CBECK

Actually the guy who sold the $20 pair of slacks made money. Anyone in "their right mind" wouldn't go to a store that was a "BIG DEAL" without being in the market. That's like going to the commissary and tasting the fruit and not buy.

Well, they do offer free samples ya know!



I'll tell you straight up, you have changed my opinion somewhat about the salesman. I never liked the idea of wasting their time though. It'd be nice if they just let you drove the car on your own.....they take a copy of your license anyway. I guess that opens up a whole new can of worms though!

Originally Posted by MalibuMaxxSS

you still leave the salesmen thniking he has a chance to sell you a vehicle in the short term when in reality he does not, how bout tell him you are just wanting to joy ride in the dealers cars and not going to buy for a year or so and see what kind of response you get.

I will try it. I have specifically told salesmen "not for 6 months or more", but never a year from now...and I never used the term "joy riding".....I'll give it a shot next time!

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

I am glad that you had fun. Buying a new car should be an enjoyable expierence. But seriously, a year from now - maybe if you find a buyer for your car, more than 90% of the automotive car salesman you meet now won't even be in the business in a year from now.

In over 20 years that i have been selling new cars and trucks I have only sold one car to someone that wanted to drive now and buy a year from now. ONE. that is a very low rate of return. I know that it is a part of my job but it is the part I hate the most. Knowing that I have an almost 0% chance that I will ever sell you a car. It is human nature to want to play the odds. I would rather remove snow in the winter than go for a test drive with someone that is not buying now or in the near future.

It just seems to me that you wanted to go for a ride so that you can post on this site and show everyone how much you know about cars... and have fun doing it. Next time go to ceder point or Kings Island and tell us what costers were beter. You would have more fun and we would get to read something that is more enjoyable.

Like I said I didn't ask to test drive either of those cars - they asked me. Also, I could care less if I posted the reviews on GMI and from now on I don't have to. Most of the time my friend and I go there we just look at the cars and sit in them. Oddly enough that evening I got to test drive 4 cars. 3 of them though were with the VW salesguy and like I said he wasn't a very good salesman so if he wanted to spend that much effort considering I wasn't a serious buyer that's his problem not mine.

Originally Posted by supraracer

We're all in the market whether it be today or a couple years from now. Somtimes I just want to see how different cars are comming along because we're always need to planing for that next purchase.

Exactly. I am a car guy and have been for as long as I can remember. I like to look at cars and get information on them. I don't go look at them in person all the time, but ones that I am interested in more than others I would like to go look at them in person because I may end getting one if I like it. 99% of the time that I go there I never get greeted by salesmen at all, however that evening must've been slow because I had quite a few salesmen greet me. If they want to spend their time with me that's their choice, I made it clear that I wasn't buying or leasing right away but if I want to look at a car I'm going to ask to at least sit in it and try not to waste their time. In fact almost all the salesmen that talk to me and know that I'm not buying right away talk my head off. I enjoy talking to them for the most part however many times I find it hard to get out of there. So clearly they're not that busy or missing opportunities on sales because if they saw a more serious client they would've quickly ended our conversation and go assist the other client.

Perhaps the car business is different, however in my line of sales (and what most sales are like) 95% of the people that come in are not going to buy from me. I would love it if every one that came in bought from me but the reality is that isn't going to happen. I enjoy what I do and I enjoy dealing with the public. It's not my problem that there is a high turnover with automobile salespeople because it's their decision to enter the business. If I for example loved the Jetta and wanted to lease one either that day for 8 months from now I would've dealt with that person because they had spent time with me before. If that salesman was not working for the dealership when I go to get a car that's not my problem. If they enjoy what they do and do well at it then they last in it. I know quite a few salespeople that have been in the business for many years. The fact is, if you don't enjoy what you're doing then don't do it. If a car salesman can't handle the fact that he may not get sale that day or that week then he shouldn't be in the business. When a salesperson gives me their card I am loyal to them whether I am buying from them that day or not. If I'm not buying from them right away I don't expect them to spend a lot of time with me and if they want to that's their choice, however I at least expect them to answer my questions and provide me with their information for when I am ready to buy something.

Anyway, that is my thought on it and you can either agree or agree to disagree with me.

[pontiacjs]

Perhaps the car business is different, however in my line of sales (and what most sales are like) 95% of the people that come in are not going to buy from me.

It is a good thing that you are not a car salesman if you are only closing 5% you would be out of a job in a month or two. The national closing rate for a car salesman is about 20% with the better ones closer to 30 to 35%.

The Saturn retailer down the street actualy logs everyone who walks in the door and grinds the salesman to close every deal. the sales mngr will question the salesman as to what happened to the lady in the green dress. Why didn't she buy? did she get a tour of the service department? did you introduce her to a mngr before she left? When you stroke of those guys they get treated like dirt by their boss for not closing a deal. Or if they gaffed you off they will get even worse treatment by their boss for blowing off a potentiel customer. It is a lose - lose down there.

Personally i would tell you to feel free to look around and just ask anyone for assistance if you have any questions. Hopefully none of the other salesman I work with herd me or saw me speaking to you when you stop one of them and ask to go for a ride.

Selling cars is a crap shoot. Sometimes you win and sometimes you loose. You just have to maximize your opportunities when you have a chance to win.

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

It is a good thing that you are not a car salesman if you are only closing 5% you would be out of a job in a month or two. The national closing rate for a car salesman is about 20% with the better ones closer to 30 to 35%.

Personally i would tell you to feel free to look around and just ask anyone for assistance if you have any questions.

Well in the Real Estate industry selling new homes which is what I do, a closing rate of 5-15% is the norm.

That's what most salespeople do with me and I'm fine with that.

[MalibuMaxxSS]

Originally Posted by IAMCANADIAN

Well in the Real Estate industry selling new homes which is what I do, a closing rate of 5-15% is the norm.

That's what most salespeople do with me and that's fine and frankly I prefer it that way.

Yes, and If car sales paid 3-7% of $200,000 plus, like real estate I could get by selling 2 or 3 a month as well.. Unfortunately in car sales if you can average 500 on comissions you are doing pretty good...and most EVERY new GM car has less then $1500 markup. LOL last Bu I sold was $325 commission bucks sold at sticker...so 5-15% dont cut it in this business. you are getting by and thats it, unless you do homerun grosses on all you 4-7 deals a month. And even then.........the dealer prolly wont keep you.........

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by MalibuMaxxSS

Yes, and If car sales paid 3-7% of $200,000 plus, like real estate I could get by selling 2 or 3 a month as well.. Unfortunately in car sales if you can average 500 on comissions you are doing pretty good...and most EVERY new GM car has less then $1500 markup. LOL last Bu I sold was $325 commission bucks sold at sticker...so 5-15% dont cut it in this business. you are getting by and thats it, unless you do homerun grosses on all you 4-7 deals a month. And even then.........the dealer prolly wont keep you.........

In new home sales you don't get paid 3-7% - it is more than car sales most times, however it's not as much as re-sales (pre-owned homes). I thought about going into car sales because I like cars a lot (incase it wasn't obvious), however the auto market is a tough market and it does not pay as much as Real Estate (my 2nd interest). However, realtors pay a huge amount of fees (office fees, board fees, MLS fees, GST) plus advertising, websites etc. so it's not really much better. Still, it's what I like to do and as long as I make enough money to be financially secure I'm happy. I'm sure you have similar reasons why you are in the car business.

[pontiacjs]

i would never guess that a realestate agent would only close 15%. I always thought that it would be closer to 30 or 40%.

The days of being able to make a living selling cars is comming to a halt. Most everyone I know is making less than 60% of what they made just a few years ago. With over 20 years in the business and 14 fo them at the same dealer I do have a ton of referals and repeats, however the margins have gotten so small that even if you sold a 20k car at sticker you only have about a 200 to 250 commison. back in 85 / 86 if you sold a 13k car for sticker you would be sitting on about a 600 commision and there was a lot less competition. No saturn, kia, hyuda, scion, infiniti, accura, lexus. People only had 3 trucks to choose from. and we only had to sell a car. Now you have to be an accountant with a law degree to figure out the incentives and you have to beg for a completely satisfied on your survey that did not exhist 20 years ago. Lot more effort - a lot less money = bad attitude and possible carreer change.

[MalibuMaxxSS]

Originally Posted by IAMCANADIAN

In new home sales you don't get paid 3-7% - it is more than car sales most times, however it's not as much as re-sales (pre-owned homes). I thought about going into car sales because I like cars a lot (incase it wasn't obvious), however the auto market is a tough market and it does not pay as much as Real Estate (my 2nd interest). However, realtors pay a huge amount of fees (office fees, board fees, MLS fees, GST) plus advertising, websites etc. so it's not really much better. Still, it's what I like to do and as long as I make enough money to be financially secure I'm happy. I'm sure you have similar reasons why you are in the car business.

exactly, and true dat, you do have much more in the expense column then I do for sure, I always knew real estate was better paying, its obvious, and looked into it before car sales, but like you I love cars, trucks, off roaders, low riders, whatever the creation, to each their own I beleive and just find it cool with what new ideas people create..

I have build a couple nice S/C mustangs, one a 97 Cobra running low 11s, then had kids and it went for a Grand prix, GTP, so I bought a 79 GMC S/B, and built it, slammed complete with the crate 350, ahh sold it and started off roading, built a 94 Ford S/B, big, and then went the Jeep way....and OH MY GOD the money I thru in this thing.....but ya, as long as your enjoying life.

Next hoping to move into the bus office, but I dont know, almost be a pay cut, but dont have to beat the lot then. But I dont really now got a good customer base, anyhow rambling.....

[MalibuMaxxSS]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

i would never guess that a realestate agent would only close 15%. I always thought that it would be closer to 30 or 40%.

The days of being able to make a living selling cars is comming to a halt. Most everyone I know is making less than 60% of what they made just a few years ago. With over 20 years in the business and 14 fo them at the same dealer I do have a ton of referals and repeats, however the margins have gotten so small that even if you sold a 20k car at sticker you only have about a 200 to 250 commison. back in 85 / 86 if you sold a 13k car for sticker you would be sitting on about a 600 commision and there was a lot less competition. No saturn, kia, hyuda, scion, infiniti, accura, lexus. People only had 3 trucks to choose from. and we only had to sell a car. Now you have to be an accountant with a law degree to figure out the incentives and you have to beg for a completely satisfied on your survey that did not exhist 20 years ago. Lot more effort - a lot less money = bad attitude and possible carreer change.

Very true,

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

i would never guess that a realestate agent would only close 15%. I always thought that it would be closer to 30 or 40%.

The days of being able to make a living selling cars is comming to a halt. Most everyone I know is making less than 60% of what they made just a few years ago. With over 20 years in the business and 14 fo them at the same dealer I do have a ton of referals and repeats, however the margins have gotten so small that even if you sold a 20k car at sticker you only have about a 200 to 250 commison. back in 85 / 86 if you sold a 13k car for sticker you would be sitting on about a 600 commision and there was a lot less competition. No saturn, kia, hyuda, scion, infiniti, accura, lexus. People only had 3 trucks to choose from. and we only had to sell a car. Now you have to be an accountant with a law degree to figure out the incentives and you have to beg for a completely satisfied on your survey that did not exhist 20 years ago. Lot more effort - a lot less money = bad attitude and possible carreer change.

Yes, getting clients in real estate is challenging. When you're selling new homes people come to you, but the majority of them are looky-loos - especially on Sundays. Still, sometimes looky-loos end up buying a home from you - you never know. Now with re-sales, getting clients is even harder. For example, if a real estate agent sends out a postcard or flyer via unaddressed ad mail to say 1500 people, they're lucky if they get 1-2 responses. Also, they have to do it frequently because people throw them out and don't usually think about a real estate agent until they're ready to sell or buy.

Originally Posted by MalibuMaxxSS

exactly, and true dat, you do have much more in the expense column then I do for sure, I always knew real estate was better paying, its obvious, and looked into it before car sales, but like you I love cars, trucks, off roaders, low riders, whatever the creation, to each their own I beleive and just find it cool with what new ideas people create..

I have build a couple nice S/C mustangs, one a 97 Cobra running low 11s, then had kids and it went for a Grand prix, GTP, so I bought a 79 GMC S/B, and built it, slammed complete with the crate 350, ahh sold it and started off roading, built a 94 Ford S/B, big, and then went the Jeep way....and OH MY GOD the money I thru in this thing.....but ya, as long as your enjoying life.

Next hoping to move into the bus office, but I dont know, almost be a pay cut, but dont have to beat the lot then. But I dont really now got a good customer base, anyhow rambling.....

Awesome that's really cool! I feel that if you really enjoy what you're doing and you're secure enough financially, that money isn't a big priority. It sounds like you really enjoy cars and that you really enjoy your career and that's important. My last job I was really unhappy at and it was rather stressful and it got to the point where it was affecting me personally. When I got out of that job and into the one I have now, I did a complete 180. I mean you hear this from other people all the time, however until you experience it yourself, you don't really take much thought to it.

[[Corporal Dan]]

Originally Posted by IAMCANADIAN

-2008 Ford Focus SE Coupe
-2004 Infiniti G35 Coupe
-2008 Volkswagen GTI
-2008 Volkswagen Jetta 2.5

Dead on about the Volks. Base price is good, but add something basic, like AC and windows you don't have to crank, and before you know it' the price has ballooned by $4000

G35 is basically a motor with the power routed to the correct wheels (rear). Really nothing spectacular, and horifically overpriced compared to Mustang

Of the three the focus is what I thought was the best deal. Good power and exceptionally good handling, and great gas mileage and cheap as hell to boot. I found that for a mere 2K more, I could move up to the Fusion or Malibu. 0% financing and all that jazz, too. And then I made the mistake of going to Dodge.ca......

2008 Charger went for $23K with basically everything standard, and a 250HP six. Walked out of the dealership after I wrote a cheque for $26,600. This covered:

- Car
- 3.5L eng, bigger radiator, better alternator, larger front sway bar (replaces crap 2.7L)
- 17" Aluminum wheels
- Power seat and pedals
- GST / PST / Freight/Prep / AC tax / Plate and registration

The rest is history.

RWD, v6 power, awesome size and comfort, and good mileage for only 1000 more than the Malibu.

Definitely not a compact car, and a royal pain in the butt to park, but totally worth it.

Originally Posted by Uzzy

You should check out an Astra and see how it compares to the VWs.

130hp vs 175hp. no contest.

Originally Posted by CBECK

Yeeeeaaahhhh. I like to go around driving cars and wasting a salepersons time. As the poor guy was helping you out a buyer came in the door and probably bought something. But who cares right it's not your problem. I think I'm gonna come into your work and jack you around so you can't be productive.

Shut up. Customers are what make it possible for you to earn a living selling cars. For evry customer that 'wastes' your time going on a test drive, you've probably screwed 10 with pressure tactics and misleading pricing. There's a reason people hate shopping for cars and the sales experience is it. And butthurt salesmen on forums don't help any.

I went to the local dodge dealership and spent a lot of time with a salesman. He answered all my questions, worked numbers with me, etc. In the end I bought from another dodge dealership because they had the color I wanted at a price the original guy can't match. By your logic, since I spent all that time with him, i have a moral obligation to buy from him. Not so.

What you fail to understand though is that the guy being cool with me even when he realized my cash would go elsewhere has put his dealership high up on my list, and I'll be going there for service, and probably for the next car I buy. If he reacted like you, i would have pissed on the showroom door handle and never looked back.

[mikmak]

Originally Posted by pontiacjs

i would never guess that a realestate agent would only close 15%. I always thought that it would be closer to 30 or 40%.

The days of being able to make a living selling cars is comming to a halt. Most everyone I know is making less than 60% of what they made just a few years ago. With over 20 years in the business and 14 fo them at the same dealer I do have a ton of referals and repeats, however the margins have gotten so small that even if you sold a 20k car at sticker you only have about a 200 to 250 commison. back in 85 / 86 if you sold a 13k car for sticker you would be sitting on about a 600 commision and there was a lot less competition. No saturn, kia, hyuda, scion, infiniti, accura, lexus. People only had 3 trucks to choose from. and we only had to sell a car. Now you have to be an accountant with a law degree to figure out the incentives and you have to beg for a completely satisfied on your survey that did not exhist 20 years ago. Lot more effort - a lot less money = bad attitude and possible carreer change.

Don't forget annoying cruisers like me, that test drive and shop for 12+ months before buying something. A lot of dealers go cold if i can't give them a hard and fast purchase time. I usually get the urge to buy a car, then test drive a few in my price range. Then it is a complex process of assessing whether or not I can live with the dislikes vs. the incurred cost.

Mrs. mak, on the other hand, looks at a car, then says, "I want that car". Unfortunately, it is usually said in ear shot of the sales man. This usually costs me (on estimation) about $1000 per transaction. It is also one of the reasons that I rarely take Mrs. mak with me on tests....that and the level of adhesion envelope pushing I usually undertake.