Jaguar XF: Sex on Wheels -- Seriously

[emh]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

I couldn't disagree with you more on the interior, I found it stunning! The materials used, the electronic automation, the aroma, to not be somehow seduced, one may need to be evaluated for a heartbeat.

Well, it's all a matter of opinion. The interior is certainly several steps above the STS, but that's not saying much. I guess I'm not seduced by electronics and gizmos (I do like them, but for me that's gravy, not the meat). Despite some classic Jag cues, the dash layout and design does nothing for me (it's more Lincoln than Jag in my view).

With the addition of the 5.0L later the power will be bumped up to 380HP in the base car. Now I would expect this will add to the hussle factor.

Actually, if gas prices stay near $4/gal I fully exepct the 3.0l V6 to arrive stateside sooner rather than later, and that would be the base.

At the entry price of $55000, the 4.2l V8 is no bargain! A fully equipped model is $67000, at this level it's approaching the 7 Series, STS V, and Mercedes Benz CLS. That Tier Group outguns the XF in Horsepower! I believe this might be the reason for the 5.0l running upgrade, I am further stating: I will not buy the XF with the 4.2, at the current price point.

What I stated was that for a V8 lux sedan, the XF is a very good value. The base for the 4.2l V8 is $50k -- almost $9000 less than a base 550i and equipped better (though not as powerful). Yes, you can get a 535i for less, but without the low-end grunt mgescuro, like most V8 fans, liked during the testdrive.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by emh

Well, it's all a matter of opinion. The interior is certainly several steps above the STS, but that's not saying much. I guess I'm not seduced by electronics and gizmos (I do like them, but for me that's gravy, not the meat).

Sorry EMH:

But it's your fault, that I must remind you in 2008, electronic gizmos (your word ) are used as meat by many, that may result in the Icelandic gravy.

[emh]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Sorry EMH:

But it's your fault, that I must remind you in 2008, electronic gizmos (your word ) are used as meat by many, that may result in the Icelandic gravy.

You are right -- a lot of folks mix up gadgetry for sophistication and/or luxury. As I've said in other threads, the self-parking gimmick got the LS far more publicity than any other aspect of the car. I was simply stating I'm not part of that crowd. If you see that as a "fault", 't ain't my problem .

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

The XJ is the Jaguar Flagship and is supposed to be launched next year, elsewhere in his forum are some concept pictures. It is a lot bolder and more Feline Like.

I know!!
I'd love to check out the XJ, but it is most likely out of my price range.

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

I couldn't disagree with you more on the interior, I found it stunning! The materials used, the electronic automation, the aroma, to not be somehow seduced, one may need to be evaluated for a heartbeat.

It really is a stunner of an interior. Even the tangible plastics aren't cheap. They're rigid and high quality. Though, Jaguar did louse up the XK's interior with some cheapie plastics. It's not in the XF.

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

My drive was also short, and the car was brand new. With my latest STS being 325HP, the XF didn't feel all that powerful, however I drove in "D" not "S" to be fair it is possible there could be power allocation differences.

Oh it's more than possible. Believe me.
Take a nice long drive in City traffic and you'll see and feel the capabilities of the XF. I was kinda surprised the sales guy let me drive it for so long. But he and I also had a nice conversation. He had almost sent his kids to my grammar school Even got accepted, but decided to send them to a comparable school but one that had $12,000 cheaper tuition. Can't argue with those sort of numbers, ya know?

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

With the addition of the 5.0L later the power will be bumped up to 380HP in the base car. Now I would expect this will add to the hussle factor.

Yeah, you really got me thinking about that too. Darn it.

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

I greatly agree here. I still love the S Types traditional look of dignity. It will be recognized as a Jaguar for all time.

Ya know? I really liked the S-Type. The 2 things about it I really couldn't live with was the lack of power at the base end. And the cramped interior. Everything else, I thought was excellent.
The retro design was fine, but Jaguar left the car to wither on the vine 4 years too long without an update. That was a major problem.

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

At the entry price of $55000, the 4.2l V8 is no bargain! A fully equipped model is $67000, at this level it's approaching the 7 Series, STS V, and Mercedes Benz CLS. That Tier Group outguns the XF in Horsepower! I believe this might be the reason for the 5.0l running upgrade, I am further stating: I will not buy the XF with the 4.2, at the current price point.

Entry price is really $49,995. THen you move up to the luxury tiers and then the SC level. And ultimately, to the Performance R next year.
XF really doesn't compete with the 7-series. The XJ will run with the 7-series and S-Class. XF is an E and CLS competitor. And, for what you get, it matches up pretty well.
Just remember the thing about the Jaguars. They are always a half-step above the general competition. If you want a Jaguar, you will pay more for the privilege. That's what has always kept Jaguar a more exclusive brand than the more run-of-the-mill Mercedes and Bimmers.

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

I am Cadillac/Jaguar enthusiast and would hope to own another (of both)somewhere, sometime but I understand the differences between value and reckless/unqualified abandon. I respect those whom like me studied, then worked hard for the success in order to make such purchases possible, and are demanding of whatever we pay for. This is the deciding factor with my Luxury purchases and evaluations.

My family has had both Cadillacs and Jaguars. I would very much like to buy one for myself instead of inheriting or getting a "hand-me-down."
GM isn't offering the Cadillac I want and/or expect from a storied name like Cadillac.
Jaguar is offering the car I want and/or expect from a storied name like Jaguar.
These 2 remain at the very top of my list.

Audi A6 still has ergonomic issues I cannot live with.
Mercedes E-Class has quality issues that haven't been resolved, but it's going through an update. For now, it's a no.
Mercedes CLS-Class is out of my price range.
BMW 535i/550i is too common around here.

Maybe in 2 years time, Cadillac will finally offer the CTS that is expected in this segment. But for now, it has fallen well short of what I am expecting from a premium luxury sport sedan.
For me, the XF is really the only game in town. It has the right amount of luxury for this level. It has the requisite technological bells and whistles that are now expected. It has cleverly designed interfaces (thanks to Apple). It has acceptable ergonomics. The car is well isolated. It's ability for precision and defensive maneuvering at city speeds is more than acceptable. Power and overall handling is what I come to expect. And it manages to hold to the Jaguar standard for interior refinement.
I'm not sitting, wondering where X, Y and Z options are on the XF like I do with the CTS; it's all simply there. (Except for the power headrests.)

[JBsZ06]

Good to see Jaguar step up to the plate.

Sounds like its a home run in your review.

Congrats on the new car. When do you take delivery?

I look forward to your long term review.

Nice car!

JB

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by JBsZ06

Good to see Jaguar step up to the plate.
Sounds like its a home run in your review.
Congrats on the new car. When do you take delivery?
I look forward to your long term review.
Nice car!
JB

It's definitely a home run.
I haven't pulled the trigger yet on the XF. I'm biding my time. Part of me wants to see how Cadillac will treat the CTS in the MCE. The other part of me remains skeptical and says to get the XF.

Once the 5.0L V8 is dropped into the XF, I'll take a final look and probably pull the trigger then. (Unless Cadillac comes up with something comparable.)

I wonder... where's JLMartin99? He hasn't said anything yet... Hmmm

[JBsZ06]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

It's definitely a home run.
I haven't pulled the trigger yet on the XF. I'm biding my time. Part of me wants to see how Cadillac will treat the CTS in the MCE. The other part of me remains skeptical and says to get the XF.

Once the 5.0L V8 is dropped into the XF, I'll take a final look and probably pull the trigger then. (Unless Cadillac comes up with something comparable.)

I wonder... where's JLMartin99? He hasn't said anything yet... Hmmm

]]


FWIW waiting for the larger V8 motor sounds like a good idea...

I don't ever see you buying a cTS based off many of your previous comments.... so enjoy the New Jaguar....

Beautiful sedan...

[PAULSTS1]

Mgescuro:

I am going to say some I never said before...But last night while driving home I saw a guy driving a new Black XF. Though I have had black cars before, it looked like a BMW 7 Series, or a Lexus LS460 in that color. I think the newer styled Jaguars need color: Racing Green, Silver, Metallic Brown, Blue, or Red. Black made it look so generic, when moving.

As I have mentioned before, I have never custom ordered a car, I have always bought what was in stock from a Dealer. If the Dealer didn't have something that "spoke to me" I just ventured further until I found it!

Again this is just my observation which I find somewhat disconcerting. I really like the car it just translates different to me in the color black.

[jlmartin99]

Greetings mgescuro,

A very good review and my experience was similar with Jaguar's XF, I simply adore this style and design language.

However, I did find areas that were lacking or non-existent once my emotional highs subsided. I should say up front, the value of these areas will depend on the luxury buyer, but some I have concluded are of high priority consideration, due to they are in the area of safety systems and security. First is the general topic of Telematics, which I found no information regarding the XF or XK Jaguar models from a safety perspective. No advance active crash notification or air bag deployment or security and the salesman simply commented it is not available yet. If you have information on this, I would appreciate your feedback. In addition to Telematics systems integration being absent, convenience was not present as well such as vehicle diagnostics real time or remote door unlock, stolen car tracking, to navigation directions and so on.

The other missing feature is AWD only RWD with winter model and this will limits its appeal where four seasons are part of the requirement consideration.

Third was the infotainment system and the interface is simply beautiful and B&W is a superb high end loud speaker manufacture and no one will be disappointed in its sound reproduction. But it is limited due to advance DVD audio and DVD video formats were not supported. That said, this infotainment system is on par with most other high end systems from an audio perspective. The sonic value overall is warm in its sound reproduction similar to Mark Levinson’s systems used in Lexus today. Whereas Bose’s 5.1 Surround Sound is somewhat more neutral or flat in its presentation as in Cadillac’s STS and it remains the gold standard in this regard along with depth perception and discrete placement aligns with source content. And there are some advance audio technologies that Bose has implemented which preserve the sonic listening pleasure and accuracy of audio when driving. Two of note that work most effectively are Bose’s AudioPilot Noise cancellation and Personal Surround speakers with Truespace technologies. In my experience where these technologies are implemented or of similar application, helps preserve audio quality when sunroofs, windows or in the case of Jaguar’s XK convertible top are lowered.

All in all Jaguar’s XF is a stunning style and design transformation for Jaguar in my view. And for my opinion, though I see clear areas that did not meet my requirements, Jaguar’s new design language is powerful and distinctive in the XF.

It is good to see you exited about Jaguar’s new performance premium mid size luxury sedan. I sense it will be a very good fit for your requirements.

JLM

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

However, I did find areas that were lacking or non-existent once my emotional highs subsided. I should say up front, the value of these areas will depend on the luxury buyer, but some I have concluded are of high priority consideration, due to they are in the area of safety systems and security. First is the general topic of Telematics, which I found no information regarding the XF or XK Jaguar models from a safety perspective. No advance active crash notification or air bag deployment or security and the salesman simply commented it is not available yet. If you have information on this, I would appreciate your feedback. In addition to Telematics systems integration being absent, convenience was not present as well such as vehicle diagnostics real time or remote door unlock, stolen car tracking, to navigation directions and so on.

There is no Telematic system available on Jaguar that I know of anymore. I know Jaguar Assist was an option at one point, but I haven't seen hide nor hair of it in recent years. I don't know what happened to it. I did not ask the salesman about it.
AIr bag is dual stage airbags. Front, side, and head. No crash notification that I know, but that would be tied to telematics.

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

The other missing feature is AWD only RWD with winter model and this will limits its appeal where four seasons are part of the requirement consideration.

Not an issue for me. Unneeded expense down the road for me as well.

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Third was the infotainment system and the interface is simply beautiful and B&W is a superb high end loud speaker manufacture and no one will be disappointed in its sound reproduction. But it is limited due to advance DVD audio and DVD video formats were not supported. That said, this infotainment system is on par with most other high end systems from an audio perspective. The sonic value overall is warm in its sound reproduction similar to Mark Levinson’s systems used in Lexus today. Whereas Bose’s 5.1 Surround Sound is somewhat more neutral or flat in its presentation as in Cadillac’s STS and it remains the gold standard in this regard along with depth perception and discrete placement aligns with source content. And there are some advance audio technologies that Bose has implemented which preserve the sonic listening pleasure and accuracy of audio when driving. Two of note that work most effectively are Bose’s AudioPilot Noise cancellation and Personal Surround speakers with Truespace technologies. In my experience where these technologies are implemented or of similar application, helps preserve audio quality when sunroofs, windows or in the case of Jaguar’s XK convertible top are lowered.

You are quite aware the Bowers & Wilkins System is a Dolby Pro-Logic II 7.1 reference level system, right?
DVD Audio is a format that is DOA. I actually don't understand why that format went into automobiles in the first place. You can't find the discs anywhere.
Jaguar does offer DVD video, with screen integrated into the headrests, should you want that. That might be a dealer installed option though?
Also, you should note that B&W has implemented dynamic amplifier equalization base on road speed and ambient noise, which should be similar to AudioPilot. Also, each amp is processed through an advanced DSP, which should realize a similar effect to Bose TrueSpace.

I stand by my initial statement. There's a new standard in car audio. It's not in Cadillac. It's not in Lexus. It's not in Audi.

[goblue]

Very nice review.

I disagree that the top CTS 3.6DI isn't comparable to the base Jag.

The CTS has a few advantages, such as a superior infotainment system - its probably the best system in any car right now for integration and systems. For sound, as far as B&W vs Mark Levinson vs Bose - its hardly worth getting excited about. Basically, they lease the name with very little actual technology from the actual company. Its marketing at its best. PL II doesn't impress at home with a $5K system. I'll have to listen to it in the Jag, but a car is about the worst environment for sound. Loads of hard, reflective surfaces, so to me, I've never heard a car system truly impress - I doubt this is any different.

Love the interior, like the exterior, hate the front clip - a disjointed affair at best.

What I took away from the review, is sort of what I take away from reading C&D review a Honda - I think you ought to buy the car, its clear you really like Jags - and no matter what Cadillac does have hesitation. The CTS is a fantastic car, and for 40K with FE2, DI, infotainment, and leather is a good deal. The Jag is extremely competitive in the class - so if you want to spend 60K, then go for it - it will be years before the CTS hits that range and I wouldn't consider the STS either in its present form.

Personally, I can't reason dropping 60K on a car when for 38 I can get the CTS. I'd have to be making 400-500+ to consider a 50K+ car when there are vehicles like the new CTS. There are simply too many things to spend money on that I enjoy.

For instance, I could take a month long trip around the world, business class, top hotels for the difference in price between the XJ and the CTS. That would be an easy decision for me.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by goblue

I disagree that the top CTS 3.6DI isn't comparable to the base Jag.

And I'd disagree with you. The CTS is still underbaked.
The performance might be competitive. The rest of the car is in the ballpark but needs more.

Originally Posted by goblue

The CTS has a few advantages, such as a superior infotainment system - its probably the best system in any car right now for integration and systems.

I've made my argument about the infotainment system. While it is nice, I don't believe HD systems in cars is the market trend. I think automakers are trying to cram in technology in order to sell option packages, but they have no clue what to make of it. The existing market trend for music is portability, not adding repositories of it in your life. Now Cadillac has other uses for the HD, and that's a positive.

Originally Posted by goblue

For sound, as far as B&W vs Mark Levinson vs Bose - its hardly worth getting excited about. Basically, they lease the name with very little actual technology from the actual company. Its marketing at its best. PL II doesn't impress at home with a $5K system. I'll have to listen to it in the Jag, but a car is about the worst environment for sound. Loads of hard, reflective surfaces, so to me, I've never heard a car system truly impress - I doubt this is any different.

You will have to listen to it. But B&W uses their proprietary speaker designs in the Jaguar. And as with all B&W speakers, it is reference level. Plus the audio clarity and the sound stage generated by the B&W system is quite incredible!
Like I said, the radio was on KDFC, the classical station. I was fooled; I believed it was a CD, until I heard some static. The audio image was straight ahead of me, as if it was emanating from the windshield.
I believe it is part marketing. But there's putting name brand speakers into a car... and then engineering the audio to fit the car's interior acoustics -- which Cadillac, Jaguar, Lexus, and Audi have done.
All I can suggest is you listen to the B&W system and hear for yourself.

Originally Posted by goblue

Love the interior, like the exterior, hate the front clip - a disjointed affair at best.

I did say it had a "dead fish" sort of look to it, depending on the angle.

Originally Posted by goblue

What I took away from the review, is sort of what I take away from reading C&D review a Honda - I think you ought to buy the car, its clear you really like Jags - and no matter what Cadillac does have hesitation. The CTS is a fantastic car, and for 40K with FE2, DI, infotainment, and leather is a good deal. The Jag is extremely competitive in the class - so if you want to spend 60K, then go for it - it will be years before the CTS hits that range and I wouldn't consider the STS either in its present form.

I stand by my review -- and every single review.
Performance only tells half the story for a car. I have no complaints about Cadillac's performance. I've never complained about Cadillac's performance. because it's never been an issue for me.
The issue still remains that for a luxury car, Cadillac's lineup trails in attention to details and options packages and technology and luxury amenities.
The base XF, is Jaguar's BMW 535's competitor. but both Jaguar and BMW have the ability to take these mid-level cars a step or two beyond what Cadillac even offers. So Cadillac, in that sense, does trail.
You don't have a choice of wood in CTS. You don't have full leather seating in CTS. Nor do you have a stitched leather dash. The absolute basics for what defines luxury in this class today, CTS just doesn't offer the necessary packages.
I can see CTS as a peripheral competitor; however, it's just not fully equipped to take on the cars in this segment. And that's unfortunately, the harsh reality of the situation. I'm frustrated that I have to wait 2-3 more years for an MCE for the CTS that rectifies this fundamental problem.

If I had wanted a car that was on par with my Saab 9-5, I would have no problem with the CTS 3.6L DI. because that's what it is. but I want to take a step UP in level for my next car. And for that, I would actually have to go to the STS because it DOES have the necessary luxury. However, we all know how I feel about how STS has been implemented in the US market. And that's why STS is really the XF's competitor -- not the CTS.

Originally Posted by goblue

Personally, I can't reason dropping 60K on a car when for 38 I can get the CTS. I'd have to be making 400-500+ to consider a 50K+ car when there are vehicles like the new CTS. There are simply too many things to spend money on that I enjoy.

But that isn't the issue.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

There is no Telematic system available on Jaguar that I know of anymore. I know Jaguar Assist was an option at one point, but I haven't seen hide nor hair of it in recent years. I don't know what happened to it. I did not ask the salesman about it.
AIr bag is dual stage airbags. Front, side, and head. No crash notification that I know, but that would be tied to telematics.


Not an issue for me. Unneeded expense down the road for me as well.


You are quite aware the Bowers & Wilkins System is a Dolby Pro-Logic II 7.1 reference level system, right?
DVD Audio is a format that is DOA. I actually don't understand why that format went into automobiles in the first place. You can't find the discs anywhere.
Jaguar does offer DVD video, with screen integrated into the headrests, should you want that. That might be a dealer installed option though?
Also, you should note that B&W has implemented dynamic amplifier equalization base on road speed and ambient noise, which should be similar to AudioPilot. Also, each amp is processed through an advanced DSP, which should realize a similar effect to Bose TrueSpace.

I stand by my initial statement. There's a new standard in car audio. It's not in Cadillac. It's not in Lexus. It's not in Audi.

Hi mgescuro,

Thank you for the feedback and yes in regard to Dolby Pro logic II and Dolby 5.1, they both are technologies of Dolby Labs and offer two separate disciplines. Pro logic II offers digital conversion, of 2 channel stereo to Surround Sound. Basically, Pro Logic II is an algorithm that provides a digital representation of surround sound, there is no original content mixed at the source disk. Dolby 5.1 is the digital format for movie/audio content mixed digitally for surround sound. For my requirements, as an audiophile, I have a limited collection of DVD Audio, DVD Music Concerts and a extensive collection of DVD movies. In order to be able to reproduce true digitally mastered digital surround sound, one of the only original created source material comes in the form of DVD music disks or DVD movies/concerts. The sonic difference is very impressive, specifically in regard to depth perception and location and positioning. And the 2 channel stereo conversion to surround sound would be equivalent to Bose's Centerpoint technology. It converts 2 channel stereo into surround sound. In this regard I can agree with your assessment, because Bose's Centerpoint and Dolby Pro Logic II are equivalent. However, I cannot agree regarding the audio and video quality of mastered 5.1 disks, they simply sound better for those systems enabled to reproduce the master digital disk content and the Bose Personal Surround Speakers system with 5.1 mastered disk is superior and I simply have not experience a better audio reproduction in a car without it. I have 5.1 demo experiences from Infinity, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz’s S550 and Maybach in addition to Cadillac’s STS.

I did ask my Jaguar sales director and he said there is no dealer option to upgrade the B&W system with Dolby 5.1 logic in the XF at this time. If your dealer says this is an option, please inquire for the order on part number and I will go back to my Jaguar dealership. My experience with this Jaguar dealership has been very positive.

JLM

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

Thank you for the feedback and yes in regard to Dolby Pro logic II and Dolby 5.1, they both are technologies of Dolby Labs and offer two separate disciplines. Pro logic II offers digital conversion, of 2 channel stereo to Surround Sound. Basically, Pro Logic II is an algorithm that provides a digital representation of surround sound, there is no original content mixed at the source disk. Dolby 5.1 is the digital format for movie/audio content mixed digitally for surround sound.

Correct. Jaguar uses ProLogic II. Cadillac uses Bose's proprietary Centerpoint to do the same thing.

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

For my requirements, as an audiophile, I have a limited collection of DVD Audio, DVD Music Concerts and a extensive collection of DVD movies.

I have never experienced DVD Audio played through a DVD Audio player -- with lossless audio. HOwever, I have played DVD-A through a standard DVD Player with Dolby 5.1. The DVD-A I had borrowed was "Goodbye Yellow Brick Road," and I could definitely hear the difference in the audio characteristics from even over the GYBR Remastered CD that I own.

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

However, I cannot agree regarding the audio and video quality of mastered 5.1 disks, they simply sound better for those systems enabled to reproduce the master digital disk content and the Bose Personal Surround Speakers system with 5.1 mastered disk is superior and I simply have not experience a better audio reproduction in a car without it. I have 5.1 demo experiences from Infinity, Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz’s S550 and Maybach in addition to Cadillac’s STS.

I would agree with that, if you are referring to playing DVD-A through a proper DVD-A player in a Digital 5.1 system. However, if you are playing a standard CD through this system, you're right back to the CenterPoint/ProLogic II.

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

I did ask my Jaguar sales director and he said there is no dealer option to upgrade the B&W system with Dolby 5.1 logic in the XF at this time. If your dealer says this is an option, please inquire for the order on part number and I will go back to my Jaguar dealership. My experience with this Jaguar dealership has been very positive.

That would most likely be correct. I was referring simply to DVD Video -- not DVD-A or a Digital 5.1 system.

On another note.... your statement about safety in the XF made me wonder about the ARTS system (Adaptive Restraint Technology System), which is on the XJ and S-Type. It uses ultrasonics to monitor body position in relation to the steeringwheel and airbag. Heh... It doesn't look like it's on XF. You got me there....

[goblue]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

And I'd disagree with you. The CTS is still underbaked.
The performance might be competitive. The rest of the car is in the ballpark but needs more.


I've made my argument about the infotainment system. While it is nice, I don't believe HD systems in cars is the market trend. I think automakers are trying to cram in technology in order to sell option packages, but they have no clue what to make of it. The existing market trend for music is portability, not adding repositories of it in your life. Now Cadillac has other uses for the HD, and that's a positive.


You will have to listen to it. But B&W uses their proprietary speaker designs in the Jaguar. And as with all B&W speakers, it is reference level. Plus the audio clarity and the sound stage generated by the B&W system is quite incredible!
Like I said, the radio was on KDFC, the classical station. I was fooled; I believed it was a CD, until I heard some static. The audio image was straight ahead of me, as if it was emanating from the windshield.
I believe it is part marketing. But there's putting name brand speakers into a car... and then engineering the audio to fit the car's interior acoustics -- which Cadillac, Jaguar, Lexus, and Audi have done.
All I can suggest is you listen to the B&W system and hear for yourself.


I did say it had a "dead fish" sort of look to it, depending on the angle.


I stand by my review -- and every single review.
Performance only tells half the story for a car. I have no complaints about Cadillac's performance. I've never complained about Cadillac's performance. because it's never been an issue for me.
The issue still remains that for a luxury car, Cadillac's lineup trails in attention to details and options packages and technology and luxury amenities.
The base XF, is Jaguar's BMW 535's competitor. but both Jaguar and BMW have the ability to take these mid-level cars a step or two beyond what Cadillac even offers. So Cadillac, in that sense, does trail.
You don't have a choice of wood in CTS. You don't have full leather seating in CTS. Nor do you have a stitched leather dash. The absolute basics for what defines luxury in this class today, CTS just doesn't offer the necessary packages.
I can see CTS as a peripheral competitor; however, it's just not fully equipped to take on the cars in this segment. And that's unfortunately, the harsh reality of the situation. I'm frustrated that I have to wait 2-3 more years for an MCE for the CTS that rectifies this fundamental problem.

If I had wanted a car that was on par with my Saab 9-5, I would have no problem with the CTS 3.6L DI. because that's what it is. but I want to take a step UP in level for my next car. And for that, I would actually have to go to the STS because it DOES have the necessary luxury. However, we all know how I feel about how STS has been implemented in the US market. And that's why STS is really the XF's competitor -- not the CTS.


But that isn't the issue.

Well, most of that I can agree with. I think hard drives will actually become more relevant in the future in nav systems - wireless to home servers - but fine.

It sounds like you want a 60K car. GM doesn't make a competitive 60K Cadillac - we agree on that. So, buy the Jag. I wouldn't suggest waiting for a MCE on the CTS. I don't think it will meet your requirements, and I don't think the CTS will get that expensive in non V form. I would not expect a V8 - ever. Except in the V.

B&W makes fine speakers, I'm not surprised it sounds good. I wouldn't base anything on a FM broadcast in city driving. A/B style listening is necessary to really eval a system - but you like it, so thats great. I'm sure its competitive with the others.

I guess I wouldn't wait 3 year - I doubt the MCE will be all that. You might get a leather dash. I don't expect to see full leather seating, or power sunshades, etc. You will probably see a turbo V6, I seriously doubt a V8.

If you want a V8 powered 60K luxury car - I think you found it. Why not buy it? Most people aren't going to call it sex on wheels - so clearly, you're a big fan. The CTS for many years will be a great value, a 30K car stretched to mid luxury. The Jag is a solid mid luxury car that is stretched beyond.

If you want a STS, GM isn't going to make a competitive one. They are going to try to serve 2 markets with a large sedan and fail on both fronts.