Jaguar XF: Sex on Wheels -- Seriously

[PAULSTS1]

i rather enjoyed your review, and loved the guided tour of the unique neighborhoods! It has been some years since I visited the city, but remembered various details you pointed out.

Though I came away impressed by the XF after ny evaluation, having owned 2 STS models for some time, I didn't feel the engine was quite as powerful. Per my camparo in CTS vs XF I did mention that Jaguar will be replacing the 4.2 V8 with a 5.0 SD engine. Hopefully with an increased horsepower rating, as one member pointed out most $60K plus cars offer 380 HP or more right now. I do expect sales of the XF to be good after some market exposure.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

i rather enjoyed your review, and loved the guided tour of the unique neighborhoods! It has been some years since I visited the city, but remembered various details you pointed out.

Though I came away impressed by the XF after ny evaluation, having owned 2 STS models for some time, I didn't feel the engine was quite as powerful. Per my camparo in CTS vs XF I did mention that Jaguar will be replacing the 4.2 V8 with a 5.0 SD engine. Hopefully with an increased horsepower rating, as one member pointed out most $60K plus cars offer 380 HP or more right now. I do expect sales of the XF to be good after some market exposure.

Well, I haven't been able to test drive the 3.6L DI CTS yet. That's been my issue. All they usually test drive is the base one, and I have no interest in that one, as I've already driven one twice.

The reason I found the XF quite powerful is I started off in Sport Mode. Try it out. Even lightly touching the pedal will cause the car to lurch forward. It ttok a while to learn the nuances of the accelerator in Sport Mode. And frankly, I was quite excited by that show of performance. It isn't what one would expect from a non-R Jaguar.

If true, and a 5.0L does appear, I'm more than satisfied. I can afford to wait.
I was concerned that to get the necessary power, I'd have to upgrade to the XF SC. I don't believe that's even necessary at this point. I'd be more than satisfied with the base car -- just upgrade the luxury amenities. Get the Vision Package and Bowers & Wilkins audio.
That's a package that is currently not beatable by STS, in my book.

Originally Posted by atomicshark

I agree with your assessment. Finally, Jaguar has the right car to battle M-B and BMW.

It's definitely a head-to-head battle now. There are no major compromises on the XF.

Originally Posted by atomicshark

Black on black would be my choice too. I saw a silver one the other day and it did not have the same presence as a black one does (IMO).

99.5% of all cars on the road today look like crap in silver. It's the dullest color to put on a car. And very few cars look good in it. i fail to understand why car companies show their cars in silver in all their marketing.
At least cadillac uses red -- finally.

The XF looks own right menacing in black -- without being brash. A brash Jaguar wouldn't work.

Originally Posted by atomicshark

The only thing that bothers me is the front end. The headlights are oddly shaped and the front is kind of generic. The rest of the car, especially the interior and sexy rear end more than make up for this. In black the front end looks much better.

The front end doesn't come off well in pictures. I don't know why. Because when you're standing in front of it, there's no problem But yes, the front end does have that "dead fish" look too it.

Btu as you can see from the cell phone photo I took, the XF looks pretty darn good in black.

[atomicshark]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

It's definitely a head-to-head battle now. There are no major compromises on the XF.


99.5% of all cars on the road today look like crap in silver. It's the dullest color to put on a car. And very few cars look good in it. i fail to understand why car companies show their cars in silver in all their marketing.
At least cadillac uses red -- finally.

The XF looks own right menacing in black -- without being brash. A brash Jaguar wouldn't work.


The front end doesn't come off well in pictures. I don't know why. Because when you're standing in front of it, there's no problem But yes, the front end does have that "dead fish" look too it.

Btu as you can see from the cell phone photo I took, the XF looks pretty darn good in black.

I agree. Silver is not the best color to show off a new car. Some silver paints look quite nice in certain lighting but it usually comes off looking flat and characterless (usually the photographers fault).

I don't necessarily hate silver (I own two silver cars) but, I much prefer black. Plus silver is so easy to care for.

When I saw your cell phone pic I knew I wanted this Jag...now! The angle is perfect. It really makes the front end look captivating.

I can't wait to see what TATA does with Jaguar over the next 20 years because I don't think I'll be buying one until the kids are out of college.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by atomicshark

I agree. Silver is not the best color to show off a new car. Some silver paints look quite nice in certain lighting but it usually comes off looking flat and characterless (usually the photographers fault).

I don't necessarily hate silver (I own two silver cars) but, I much prefer black. Plus silver is so easy to care for.

I know they're easy to keep clean and all, but I just don't think most cars pull of silver or grey well. often times, it looks like primer paint.

Originally Posted by atomicshark

When I saw your cell phone pic I knew I wanted this Jag...now! The angle is perfect. It really makes the front end look captivating.

It wasn't so bad for a cell phone shot. It shows off the elegance the subtle muscle of the car. And the humungo chandelier above doesn't hurt either.

Originally Posted by atomicshark

I can't wait to see what TATA does with Jaguar over the next 20 years because I don't think I'll be buying one until the kids are out of college.

hahahaha....
I think Tata has a lot of big plans in store for JLR. THe head of Tata thinks LR's are for royalty, so I would expect LR to be completely upgraded and move upward in the ranks -- probably to trump the oft-rumored Bentley CUV/SUV. Same with Jaguar. I can see investing in Jaguar's future product line. I don't believe Jaguar will "go cheap." But they will continue to be half-steps or a full step above its competition. They will always have that extra edge, and they'll always cost more. But this time around, the Jaguar will be worth the extra money.

[MCGARRETT]

I have seen a silver one of these around the same time every night, they do look pretty good, though a friend of mine saw it at the same time that I saw it, and he asked me what it was. I told him it was the new Jag, the XF, and his first comment was, "it really does not look like a Jaguar", he said it did not look bad, but it looks more like a Lexus GS than what you would expect a Jaguar too look like, and I agree with him, it does look like, to me at least, like a joint venture between Lexus and Jaguar. Not ugly mind you, but I guess that there just seem to be a "look" that Jaguar has had for so long, pretty much since the XJ6 sedan came out in 1968(or so) and through 1986, that when a Jag does not have cues from that car, it just seems strange. I agree that Jaguar did need to modernize their style, but I think that they might have waited too long to do it.

I also have a issue with the needless "powering" of things like the a/c vents and gearshift "volume" knob, they look cool now, but to me, they seem like another thing that could break.


I did like your description of the drive, I got mental images of Jimmy Stewart in his 1956 DeSoto hardtop following Kim Novak in her green Jaguar sedan through San Fransisco in Alfred Hitchcocks 1958 classic "Vertigo".

You should have brought a Bernard Herrmann CD.

[cawimmer430]

Great in-depth review.

When I first saw the new XF in pictures I didn't like it all. To me it looked like a Lexus GS clone. But when I saw it in real life all my perceptions about it changed. It's a very elegant car and has that traditional Jaguar classiness about it.

Very nice ride.

And apparently it also drives better than the BMW 5-Series!

Check out this review I semi-translated.

Autozeitung: BMW 550i vs Jaguar XF SV8 vs Lexus GS450h vs Mercedes-Benz E500 (E550)

http://forums.caranddriver.com/auto/...read.id=193271

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

Great in-depth review.

When I first saw the new XF in pictures I didn't like it all. To me it looked like a Lexus GS clone. But when I saw it in real life all my perceptions about it changed. It's a very elegant car and has that traditional Jaguar classiness about it.

Very nice ride.

Yeah. The car just doesnt' come off well in pictures. But when in person, it's like the car takes over because it's quite beautiful and elegant yet modern.

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

And apparently it also drives better than the BMW 5-Series!

I would definitely believe that they are at least on par.

Originally Posted by cawimmer430

Check out this review I semi-translated.

Autozeitung: BMW 550i vs Jaguar XF SV8 vs Lexus GS450h vs Mercedes-Benz E500 (E550)

http://forums.caranddriver.com/auto/...read.id=193271

I wonder why the Jaguar XF SC wasn't tested instead? That really is the competitor to the 550i. Still, I think the base V8 can hold its own.

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

I have seen a silver one of these around the same time every night, they do look pretty good, though a friend of mine saw it at the same time that I saw it, and he asked me what it was. I told him it was the new Jag, the XF, and his first comment was, "it really does not look like a Jaguar", he said it did not look bad, but it looks more like a Lexus GS than what you would expect a Jaguar too look like, and I agree with him, it does look like, to me at least, like a joint venture between Lexus and Jaguar. Not ugly mind you, but I guess that there just seem to be a "look" that Jaguar has had for so long, pretty much since the XJ6 sedan came out in 1968(or so) and through 1986, that when a Jag does not have cues from that car, it just seems strange. I agree that Jaguar did need to modernize their style, but I think that they might have waited too long to do it.

Well, that's the thing though. It does have a passing resemblance to the Lexus GS; however, when you actually look at it, it really doesn't have that much of a resemblance at all -- just around the C pillar area.
And you're right, the typical "Jaguar look" has been around for 40+ years. To see a divergence from it is shocking. But the traditional cues that have identified Jaguars of the past remain -- especially the square grille. What Jaguar has done is pretty much what Cadillac has done since 2000. They've taken their traditional cues that made Jaguar a Jaguar (or Cadillac a Cadillac) and incorporated them into a very modern, non-retro interpretation of a Jaguar (or a Cadillac).

Yes... they waited about 5 years too late to modernize their style and design. Their first opportunity was when the XJ moved onto its super-modern, all aluminum platform. They chose to evolve the 40+ year old XJ design. That was the tipping point, I believe.

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

I also have a issue with the needless "powering" of things like the a/c vents and gearshift "volume" knob, they look cool now, but to me, they seem like another thing that could break.

But it's sooooooooo coool!!!!!!!!!!
Besides, Jaguar wasn't the first one to incorporate rotating vents. VW was.

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

I did like your description of the drive, I got mental images of Jimmy Stewart in his 1956 DeSoto hardtop following Kim Novak in her green Jaguar sedan through San Fransisco in Alfred Hitchcocks 1958 classic "Vertigo".

You should have brought a Bernard Herrmann CD.

The funny thing is, I didn't really go on a "test drive," I went for a joy ride. And in the process, I encountered a lot of driving situations that I probably wouldn't encounter for weeks until after I bought the car!! evasive driving maneuvering, tight hills and curves, tight roads, precision maneuvering, powering up steep hills and inching down steep hills, running over extremely rough pavement. Considering what I was expecting, the XF performed far better than I ever thought possible. A lot of the media reports had the XF on par or better than a 550i!! I found it hard to believe. I don't anymore.

Bernard Herrmann.... or Tony Bennett.... (Now that Unplugged performance kicked ass!!)

[Canuck]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

XF's competition is the 535i/550i, the E350/E550, and the STS.
CTS doesn't properly slot into this market segment. A proper blend of the STS's luxury and the CTS's design elements would be a better fit.

We can talk about the price differential until we're all blue in the face, but the CTS simply needs to be better.

Your bias is showing. The XF and CTS are competitors. Winding Road did an excellent comparison on the XF and CTS. The XF is a nice car but the front end needs fixing.

http://news.windingroad.com/auto-new...-cadillac-cts/

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Your bias is showing. The XF and CTS are competitors. Winding Road did an excellent comparison on the XF and CTS. The XF is a nice car but the front end needs fixing.

http://news.windingroad.com/auto-new...-cadillac-cts/

I read that article. great article. But the CTS still doesn't slot properly against the XF.

Look, a fully loaded CTS 3.6L DI doesn't quite slot head to head against the base XF. And it certainly doesn't slot against XF with additional luxury packages. And it certainly doesn't slot against the XF SC with the additional luxury packages.

CTS only covers part of the market segment. CTS doesn't compare to E550 or 550i or XF SC.

IT's not bias. CTS just doesn't compete fully and in all areas. That's why I said, CTS needs to adopt more of STS' luxury in order to be more competitive, not to mention more powerful engines.

[Canuck]

Winding Road could not pick a winner but the CTS is a bargain in terms of price compared to the XF. I would love to see Cadillac offer an optional powertrain between the 3.6 DI and the V Series. More luxury options would be great as well.

Doesn't Jag need to offer something above the SC? 420 HP is not a true V series, M5 or AMG competitor?

How many sales is GM giving up by not offering a CTS with comparable power to the XF SC, 550i or E550? What would be the penalty (fines) for these increased sales for GM's CAFE rating (enough to profits to offset the fine)?

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Canuck

Winding Road could not pick a winner but the CTS is a bargain in terms of price compared to the XF. I would love to see Cadillac offer an optional powertrain between the 3.6 DI and the V Series. More luxury options would be great as well.

Doesn't Jag need to offer something above the SC? 420 HP is not a true V series, M5 or AMG competitor?

How many sales is GM giving up by not offering a CTS with comparable power to the XF SC, 550i or E550? What would be the penalty (fines) for these increased sales for GM's CAFE rating (enough to profits to offset the fine)?

The base XF compares to a BMW 535i. The XF SC compares to the BMW 550i. The future XF-R will compete with the M5. Reportedly, that is a 500+ HP engine. That's supposedly due in 2009.
Yes, Cadillac needs a powertrain that slots in between the 3.6L DI and the V8 in teh V-Series, plus additional luxury items.

I'm not sure what kind of sales GM would be giving up by not offering a higher engine option in the CTS at this time. But it won't matter, as the STS is still in the lineup. Once STS is gone, then the CTS will hopefully properly slot into the premium mid-size market. And at that time, CTS should not only properly slot against the XF, but the 5-series and E-class.

(hopefully)

[emh]

Nice review.

I wasn't quite as impressed with the car though. The exterior was nice, but not as stunning as I had hoped for after the concept. While the proportions are good and the design flows well together, there's a sense of anonymity to the design -- a complaint I never had about a Jag before.

The interior was a letdown for me. The only plusses were the material quality (which were great) and the unusual gizmos like the shifter and air vents. The center stack design seems dated already, and the ergonomics aren't very good (I can see it being a tad better in RHD though).

I didn't have anywhere near as long a drive -- the car felt powerful and handled well, but no more so than the other $50k+ V8 competition.

I'm sure it'll sell well over recent S-Type sales, but not sure it'll do significantly better than the S-Type did early on. The S stood out in a crowd like few other cars did, including those that cost a heck of a lot more. IIRC, the S-Type sold pretty well early on, until the lack of updates caught up with it.

There are a couple of things in XF's favor. As I've said before, there's pent-up demand (especially on the coasts) for a well-executed luxury brand that's different from the "big 3" -- BMW, Mercedes and Lexus which seem to be reaching saturation point. There are plenty of people looking for something "different". The other thing in XF's favor is that it's a very good value for a V8 lux sedan. Like other recent Jag/LR products, the XF is very-well equipped compared to the competition at a given price point.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by emh

Nice review.

I wasn't quite as impressed with the car though. The exterior was nice, but not as stunning as I had hoped for after the concept. While the proportions are good and the design flows well together, there's a sense of anonymity to the design -- a complaint I never had about a Jag before.

The interior was a letdown for me. The only plusses were the material quality (which were great) and the unusual gizmos like the shifter and air vents. The center stack design seems dated already, and the ergonomics aren't very good (I can see it being a tad better in RHD though).

The XJ is the Jaguar Flagship and is supposed to be launched next year, elsewhere in his forum are some concept pictures. It is a lot bolder and more Feline Like.

I couldn't disagree with you more on the interior, I found it stunning! The materials used, the electronic automation, the aroma, to not be somehow seduced, one may need to be evaluated for a heartbeat.

Originally Posted by emh

I didn't have anywhere near as long a drive -- the car felt powerful and handled well, but no more so than the other $50k+ V8 competition.

My drive was also short, and the car was brand new. With my latest STS being 325HP, the XF didn't feel all that powerful, however I drove in "D" not "S" to be fair it is possible there could be power allocation differences.

With the addition of the 5.0L later the power will be bumped up to 380HP in the base car. Now I would expect this will add to the hussle factor.

Originally Posted by emh

I'm sure it'll sell well over recent S-Type sales, but not sure it'll do significantly better than the S-Type did early on. The S stood out in a crowd like few other cars did, including those that cost a heck of a lot more. IIRC, the S-Type sold pretty well early on, until the lack of updates caught up with it.

I greatly agree here. I still love the S Types traditional look of dignity. It will be recognized as a Jaguar for all time.

Originally Posted by emh

There are a couple of things in XF's favor. As I've said before, there's pent-up demand (especially on the coasts) for a well-executed luxury brand that's different from the "big 3" -- BMW, Mercedes and Lexus which seem to be reaching saturation point. There are plenty of people looking for something "different". The other thing in XF's favor is that it's a very good value for a V8 lux sedan. Like other recent Jag/LR products, the XF is very-well equipped compared to the competition at a given price point.

At the entry price of $55000, the 4.2l V8 is no bargain! A fully equipped model is $67000, at this level it's approaching the 7 Series, STS V, and Mercedes Benz CLS. That Tier Group outguns the XF in Horsepower! I believe this might be the reason for the 5.0l running upgrade, I am further stating: I will not buy the XF with the 4.2, at the current price point.

I am Cadillac/Jaguar enthusiast and would hope to own another (of both)somewhere, sometime but I understand the differences between value and reckless/unqualified abandon. I respect those whom like me studied, then worked hard for the success in order to make such purchases possible, and are demanding of whatever we pay for. This is the deciding factor with my Luxury purchases and evaluations.

[chinamonty]

Sex on wheels? My girlfriend on her roller blades perhaps but a car no way - even though the E-type was very nice I didnt find it "sexy". The XF is OK but I dont think the photos I have seen would prompt me to go out of my way to test one out.

[JBsZ06]

xf is a nice looking Jaguar.

Better than a five series bimmer? U bet!

Better than any of the existing Japanese mid priced luxury cars? YUP.

Better than the existing and long in tooth MB? I'd say yes....

Good personal driving review.