Drove the Enclave Today

[Extreme4x4]

Originally Posted by HoeyHimself

If I sat in a Lincoln with alcantara I would have a heart attack...that is another 20 years from making it in to domestic cars at large..at least 20 years.

Ford has used Alcantara on quite a few vehicles. The first being SVT vehicles. The Cobra's had it, as did the Lightning.

The Taurus SHO has it. I'm not sure on the Lincolns, because I have not checked them out yet (I don't go to the Valley until daytime temps get under 90).

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by likearock00

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Remember our beloved Buick only 4-5 years ago? The Enclave was the first good thing to come to Buick in a long time. It was cherished by all for it's top notch quality and high class. Now it looks like a sore spot in the lineup. I applaud GM for it's stunning work done with the Lacrosse. It is truly high class, but is now getting close to Cadillac territory. I hate to say it, but Buick may need to hold the Lacrosse as it's flagship and work on Cadillac a bit more.

Buick is a victim of itself. They made the La Crosse soo much better. I drove a black on black, the materials are just too good in the La Crosse comparatively and the intergration of the center stack is much more superior in the La Crosse too.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by Extreme4x4

Ford has used Alcantara on quite a few vehicles. The first being SVT vehicles. The Cobra's had it, as did the Lightning.

The Taurus SHO has it. I'm not sure on the Lincolns, because I have not checked them out yet (I don't go to the Valley until daytime temps get under 90).

The problem with Ford currently is old platforms. They are recycling the same platforms with new sheet metal.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by Extreme4x4

Ford has used Alcantara on quite a few vehicles. The first being SVT vehicles. The Cobra's had it, as did the Lightning.

The Taurus SHO has it. I'm not sure on the Lincolns, because I have not checked them out yet (I don't go to the Valley until daytime temps get under 90).

All the MK Lincolns, as Aston Martin, uses Bridge of Weir leather. One of the most exclusive leathers in the world and the original provider of fine leather for the 1955/56 Continental Mark II.

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

The problem with Ford currently is old platforms. They are recycling the same platforms with new sheet metal.

I tell you, you should have your own show in Comedy Central.

[bradyholt]

Originally Posted by Simon says

I tell you, you should have your own show in Comedy Central.

Well, partial redesigns of older models are indeed very popular at Ford.

2010 Fusion and Mustang
2009 F-150
2008 Focus and Escape
2007 Expedition
2006 Explorer
2000 Taurus

You can argue that there's nothing wrong with the practice -- as I would -- but you can't deny its existence.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by bradyholt

Well, partial redesigns of older models are indeed very popular at Ford.

2010 Fusion and Mustang
2009 F-150
2008 Focus and Escape
2007 Expedition
2006 Explorer
2000 Taurus

You can argue that there's nothing wrong with the practice -- as I would -- but you can't deny its existence.

If truth hurts, he puts a gun on the messager. Name 1 new platform at ford over the last 8 years?

None. Even the Falcoln is recycled. and you forgot to include the F150 in that list of recycle. As in I agree with you and simon says thinks its personal. Classic SobeSVT traits.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by bradyholt

Well, partial redesigns of older models are indeed very popular at Ford.

2010 Fusion and Mustang
2009 F-150
2008 Focus and Escape
2007 Expedition
2006 Explorer
2000 Taurus

You can argue that there's nothing wrong with the practice -- as I would -- but you can't deny its existence.

How can I deny it, if everybody does it. Or do you think that every Camry and every Accord comes on a totally new platform for each new generation?
As for the cars you quote, lets see.

1. Fusion and Mustang are fairly new platforms (Fusion from 2006 and Mustang from 2005) both generously upgraded for their current offerings.
2. F-150 is a very recent (2004) all new platform and totally updated with new materials and geometry updates for 2009.
3. Focus and Escape, pretty old (2000 and 2001) both will be replaced with 100% new vehicles in 2010 and 2011 respectively. BTW both are mayor money makers for Ford though.
4. Expedition: Give me a god reason to re do this platform . . . and NO, the GMT900 is not one as GM financials have demonstrated.
5. Explorer: There is a totally new D4 (D473) Ford Explorer for 2011.
6. Taurus: The D3 platform was thoroughly reworked for the 2010 Taurus.

The problem with old platforms is when they grow old without any update and the public rejects them as they are become notoriously outdated. Only one Ford platform, the Panther after 30 years is beyond updatable.

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Name 1 new platform at ford over the last 8 years?

Read above.

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

None.

Really?

[firefox]

To those who complain about nit picking. Nitpicking is a big part of what got GM where they are today by incourging them to build better vehicles. They have come a long way but they could do better and they should do better. Given GM's history they need constant reminding and who better to do it than the GM fans people who buy their vehicles. Remember their past reputation so being just as good is no longer good enough.
To rebuild a reputation that has been in the dump for over thirty years idealy you need to be twice as good for half the price. But knowing that is not possible you need to be significently better at a significently lower price. Once your reputation is reestablished the you can price accordingly but never forgetting what got you into yhis mess in the first place. Products products products, give the people what they want they will come and purchase.

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by Simon says

I tell you, you should have your own show in Comedy Central.

I lol'd with your statement given the context of what he said but...

Originally Posted by Simon says

1. Fusion and Mustang are fairly new platforms (Fusion from 2006 and Mustang from 2005) both generously upgraded for their current offerings.

Fusion - Mazda 6, 2002 (03MY here)
The Epsilon dates to about the same with the Vectra/9-3.

3. Focus and Escape, pretty old (2000 and 2001) both will be replaced with 100% new vehicles in 2010 and 2011 respectively. BTW both are mayor money makers for Ford though.

The Focus dates to the late 90s worldwide; doesn't the Escape date to the Mazda 626?

6. Taurus: The D3 platform was thoroughly reworked for the 2010 Taurus.

The W-body has been thoroughly reworked over the years as well, but that doesn't make it a new platform.

Then for mbukukanyau, keep in mind that some of GM's platforms were replacing really old ones (Delta replaced the J-body comes to mind). I think on average GM and Ford are about even (Epsilon, CD3 about the same age), Ford's platforms date to about the same time relatively, GM has outliers on either side (very new ones like the Lambdas, more aged ones like the W-body). It's all relative.

[Simon says]

Originally Posted by cdp326

I lol'd with your statement given the context of what he said but...


Fusion - Mazda 6, 2002 (03MY here)
The Epsilon dates to about the same with the Vectra/9-3.


The Focus dates to the late 90s worldwide; doesn't the Escape date to the Mazda 626?


The W-body has been thoroughly reworked over the years as well, but that doesn't make it a new platform.

Then for mbukukanyau, keep in mind that some of GM's platforms were replacing really old ones (Delta replaced the J-body comes to mind). I think on average GM and Ford are about even (Epsilon, CD3 about the same age), Ford's platforms date to about the same time relatively, GM has outliers on either side (very new ones like the Lambdas, more aged ones like the W-body). It's all relative.

I am not denying any of that. I am not even comparing Ford's situation to GM's, all I am saying is that updating a platform is the way to go. Ford does it, Toyota does it, VW/Audi does it, even Mercedes and BMW do it but comedian extraordinaire mbukukanyau seems to think that for Ford it is "a problem". A fact that the market, the media and industry analysts refuse to acknowledge.

The constant update of a platform is only a problem when the technological advances in the rest of the industry make it obsolete. Like the Panthers or the W-bodies.

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by Simon says

I am not denying any of that. I am not even comparing Ford's situation to GM's, all I am saying is that updating a platform is the way to go. Ford does it, Toyota does it, VW/Audi does it, even Mercedes and BMW do it but comedian extraordinaire mbukukanyau seems to think that for Ford it is "a problem". A fact that the market, the media and industry analysts refuse to acknowledge.

The constant update of a platform is only a problem when the technological advances in the rest of the industry make it obsolete. Like the Panthers or the W-bodies.

I meant the comparison to GM more as a frame of reference/so no one could come back and say one does it and the other doesn't; the field is pretty much level when it comes to platform age. I do actually share your sentiments here.

[FanOfDurant]

The LaCrosse is lightyears better than the Enclave, but it could still benefit from better materials. I wish General Motors would go to school and takes notes from Professor Audi...piano black trim, aluminum touches around vents and the controls (rather than plastic chrome..eww), along with alcantara headliners and pillers would be a nice start..

Yep. It's like GM is being dragged kicking and screaming into a new era of interior design...lol Get it through your collective heads GM - CHEAP PLASTIC SUCKS! Say it over and over and over again until you climb out of the 25+year interior rut you've been stuck in. Then remind yourselves of this- Quality interiors Sell cars! Now see, that was easy...

[ARCANGEL]

Originally Posted by FanOfDurant

Yep. It's like GM is being dragged kicking and screaming into a new era of interior design...lol Get it through your collective heads GM - CHEAP PLASTIC SUCKS! Say it over and over and over again until you climb out of the 25+year interior rut you've been stuck in. Then remind yourselves of this- Quality interiors Sell cars! Now see, that was easy...

people forget that the interior is probably the most important aspect that perspective buyers look at

[FanOfDurant]

people forget that the interior is probably the most important aspect that perspective buyers look at

Well it's certainly a big part that's for sure. I mean c'mon, you're sitting in the car looking at it the whole time... Why would you want to look at something that's tacky or cheap? And then to think you have to make yet Another payment for it at the end of the month for another 3-4 years... yippee!! There's too much competition out there now to put out crap interiors.

[JBsZ06]

The enclaves interior is as stylish as its exterior...

Real market segment leader.