'07 Entourage - 2 years, 24k miles

[cdp326]

A review of our former '07 Entourage SE, a rebadged Kia Sedona.

Powertrain – The powertrain remained just as smooth as ever. The engine sounds amazing, which is good because it’s not exactly quiet. Power’s decent, plenty of torque to spin the traction controlled front tires. At the same time it feels like a bit too much power for the chassis, as you hear the occasional creak from in the cabin. The transmission shifts are smooth (mostly – more later), you can only tell it shifts by the engine note.

Sometimes from a stop, if you catch the accelerator at the wrong part the van wants to keep accelerating, but the transmission wants to shift to second. So you get the high revs and lurch as you upshift. Gentleness is key. Jump on the pedal and it kind of delays anyway…drive-by-wire quirk, or maybe just controlled to help mileage. It was dealer traded so maybe the transmission logic "learned" funny.

Gas mileage leaves a little to be desired. Then again, I suppose it’s just a little below the ’08 EPA rating. On the highway, without A/C at about 55 mph you can even get the trip computer to read 27, 28 mpg. It usually managed about 16-17 in driving that our new Rondo gets about 20-21.

Handling is typical big minivan. Drives big, is big, not really any steering feel but it is weighted pretty well.

Quality – The car is very well put together. The attractive gray interior has contrasting black dash pieces in some areas, and features a faux brushed aluminum trim (like that of some GM Lambdas). It looks great.
Some creaks showed up in the cabin. A small one from the third row seat, and a squeak from one/both 2nd row captains chairs when occupied.
Interior panels are cloth upholstered on the sides in all three rows - a nice touch, but decontented from the third and maybe second rows in '08. Now, they're just vinyl.

Biggest problem, though, is the power sliding doors. They often have issues with closing: close too hard and bounce out a bit, motors continue closing the door after it is shut and then release with the warning beep. There may be a fix for this, but came out closer to the end of our term with it.

Ergonomics – the radio is awfully high up. It’s okay as it has steering wheel controls for that, right? Er…well it has volume, mute, and source. None of those are probably as useful as the seek/next feature for the next CD track or radio station/preset. Other models (Azera) had this issue, IIRC though rectified it by adding seek buttons. Our Rondo has seek buttons as well.

The auto HVAC controls are easy to reach and use. Below that are buttons for the heated seats, which have 5 settings and are controlled by a dial (so leave them on, they’ll always be on when you start the car). '07 was the only year they offered heated cloth front seats.

Inside, finding a good driving position isn’t too bad. The door mounted power seat switches are great. Seat support leaves something to be desired. The armrests feature the handy angle/height adjustment, where they lock into an acceptable angle that matches the door armrest. Toyota had this on the Sienna, even the second row captain’s chairs a while ago, but I don’t think has it at all now. Hyundai deleted it too.
Second row seats are disappointing. They angle downwards, and the recline pivots on the back of the seat rather than reclining over it (if that makes sense). Toe space beneath the front seats is blocked by the heat ducts.

Third row isn’t easy to access, the doors don’t open quite wide enough and the flipped second row seats still leave a narrow space. It’s narrow between the second row seats, too. Once in the third row, it’s a soft, low cushion. Space is decent, though. As is required nowadays, there are adjustable head restraints and three-point seatbelts for all seats. One nice touch is switches in the third row for the swing out back vent windows.

There’s lots of cargo space behind the third row, and the 60/40 split folds in the floor to open it up more.

Reliability was good. Only problem was the aforementioned power sliding doors, IIRC, and early on the lumbar support adjustment disconnected when in the seat (addressed by a TSB and fixed under warranty).

'08 Entourages dropped the SE model and reshuffled options and packages between GLS and Limited models. '09 models add auxiliary and USB inputs and standard XM.

A nice offering is the well-equipped base model short-wheelbase Sedona, though it's unfortunate that it's limited to base model features, and space is a little tight even for a short-wheelbase van, being a little less than the previous Chrysler short-wheelbasers and the discontinued Mazda MPV (no fold-in-floor third row either on the SWB Sedona).
Overall, not quite as good a van as an Odyssey/Sienna but cheaper, and a little less comfortable and nowhere near the features of a Chrysler van but a nicer interior. Between the Kia Sedona and the Entourage, there's probably a combination out there for anyone. They make a great used buy especially.

[Neanderthal]

Good writeup, cdp. I'd probably try a strip of black tape on the headlights, but their splay is a design issue.
Funny how after all these years, headlights aren't perfect even though you'd think making excellent lights should be relatively easy. In the grand scheme of things.
My Spectra headlights are incredible.

I was scoping out one of the short vans when we picked up the Sorento a few weeks back. Call me a fuddy duddy, I think I'd opt for manual doors, even not hearing of your problems with the electrics.

[BlackGTP]

Have you ever calculated the actual gas milage? I've always found on my GM cars the higher the number the less reliable it is. Meaning it indicates 30 mpg I am probably getting 26. If it shows 25 maybe 23 to 23.5.... Anyone reading this with GM or non GM cars find the same???? My uncle drove his big Lexus (I can never remember the Lexus names - their top of the line lux-mobile) claiming 31 mpg (he doesn't have the hybrid) - I'm very sceptical that a 4000+ rwd vehicle got that kind of milage - he relied on the trip computer for the milage.

[Shotgun]

Originally Posted by BlackGTP

Have you ever calculated the actual gas milage? I've always found on my GM cars the higher the number the less reliable it is. Meaning it indicates 30 mpg I am probably getting 26. If it shows 25 maybe 23 to 23.5.... Anyone reading this with GM or non GM cars find the same???? My uncle drove his big Lexus (I can never remember the Lexus names - their top of the line lux-mobile) claiming 31 mpg (he doesn't have the hybrid) - I'm very sceptical that a 4000+ rwd vehicle got that kind of milage - he relied on the trip computer for the milage.

I always calculated my mileage since I was 16. I have found the Rainier display to be within a tenth or two of actual mileage, and the Malibu display is actually about 2 mpg lower than actual. Which, of course, is good to me! When we had our '06 Town and Country, the display was about 1.5 mpg higher than actual.

[Michael_S]

Nice review.

We cross-shopped the Entourage against the Honda Odyssey and bought the Odyssey instead. In our particular case, the biggest factor was poor treatment at the two closest Hyundai dealerships. But aside from that:

- The Odyssey seats were slightly more comfortable. They also offered more leg room in the first row. I'm 6 feet tall but a lot of my height is legs and I'm fat, so in the Entourage (and the Nissan Quest, and a few other minivans) my knees were too close to the dashboard for me to be comfortable on long trips. The Odyssey was better, I've managed ten hour drives in comfort.
- The Odyssey handled better. Handling isn't really important for a minivan, but the Odyssey feels surprisingly agile for its size.
- Most comparison tests put their speed times as close enough to be insignificant, but seat-of-the-pants feel was that the Odyssey has plenty of power but the Entourage is noticeably faster.
- The Entourage is only available, if I remember right, in a 2/2/3 seating configuration. The Odyssey has 2/3/3 and each of the second row seat portions can be removed. If you take out the middle second row seat, which is the smallest, and slide one of the other seats in its place, then access to the third row seats is easy. If you leave the middle second row seat in, it's more difficult to access the third row of the Odyssey than the Entourage.

Since I'm most of the way through a review anyway: we get 18 mpg in mostly city driving, 22 on mostly highway, and 25 on long trips. That's all calculated by dividing miles driven by gallons of gasoline purchased when we fill the van. We haven't had any repairs yet in 2 years and 37,000 miles of ownership.
Problems:
1. Road noise is very bad. It's hard to hear people in the second and third row when you're driving down the highway.
2. Some of the seat belts in the back lock up frequently, and you have to return them to start position before the tension relaxes and you can extend them out again. It's a pain in the neck when you have a child seat with a seat belt threaded through, and you have to completely unhook the seat belt, return it to the beginning position, and then thread it back through.
3. The engine drones very loudly between 1300 and 1400 RPM. It's not a serious problem, but I'm amused that GM used to catch all sorts of flack for 'unrefined' pushrod engines and the first car I have with this problem comes from Honda. The engine is supremely smooth everywhere else in the rev range, though - and I have run it up to the rev limiter a few times when I was driving by myself.

Originally Posted by LAMRONH

Call me a fuddy duddy, I think I'd opt for manual doors, even not hearing of your problems with the electrics.

We opted for the power doors because our kids were toddlers when we bought the minivan. We had vans with manual sliding doors when I was growing up, and we had the occasional broken finger, or a cut or bruised arm, leg, or head.

I don't regret the decision, the Odyssey's doors have started to close on us or one of the kids more than once and then immediately stopped and reversed when they hit the resistance.

If all of your kids are well past toddler age, I would probably go with manual sliding doors too.

[BlackGTP]

Originally Posted by Shotgun

I always calculated my mileage since I was 16. I have found the Rainier display to be within a tenth or two of actual mileage, and the Malibu display is actually about 2 mpg lower than actual. Which, of course, is good to me! When we had our '06 Town and Country, the display was about 1.5 mpg higher than actual.

Interesting - I've had three GM cars with the trip computer and they always come out optomistic - 94 Grand Prix GTP, 02 Grand Prix GTP and the 08 Malibu LTZ. I just had a thought - I wonder if the computers calculation of the milage are calibrated for the regular V6s and not the upper level one's in the cars I've had.... I calculate every tank I put in - never once have I gotten higher than the trip computer...

[Shotgun]

Originally Posted by BlackGTP

Interesting - I've had three GM cars with the trip computer and they always come out optomistic - 94 Grand Prix GTP, 02 Grand Prix GTP and the 08 Malibu LTZ. I just had a thought - I wonder if the computers calculation of the milage are calibrated for the regular V6s and not the upper level one's in the cars I've had.... I calculate every tank I put in - never once have I gotten higher than the trip computer...

I'm not real sure how it works. It is usually consistent in the difference, I agree. Of course, you can never go wrong with a manual calculation...unless it's not completely full. Have done that, accidentally, and it definitely shows in the numbers!

[SullyND]

Maybe I missed it, but what made it "Former"? What did you replace it with, and why? Good review.

[escheev]

2. Some of the seat belts in the back lock up frequently, and you have to return them to start position before the tension relaxes and you can extend them out again. It's a pain in the neck when you have a child seat with a seat belt threaded through, and you have to completely unhook the seat belt, return it to the beginning position, and then thread it back through.

That is funny I have a 2000 accord and that has happened to me also but only in the back seat seat belt tensioners. I suppose i must be an artifact of the honda design. After awhile you get used to it and develop a touch for it, but they are touchy has any one else experienced that in other makes?

[cdp326]

Originally Posted by BlackGTP

Have you ever calculated the actual gas milage? I've always found on my GM cars the higher the number the less reliable it is. Meaning it indicates 30 mpg I am probably getting 26. If it shows 25 maybe 23 to 23.5.... Anyone reading this with GM or non GM cars find the same???? My uncle drove his big Lexus (I can never remember the Lexus names - their top of the line lux-mobile) claiming 31 mpg (he doesn't have the hybrid) - I'm very sceptical that a 4000+ rwd vehicle got that kind of milage - he relied on the trip computer for the milage.

I don't think we ever did calculate the actual mileage, aside from guesses from the trip odometers and the fuel gauge (very scientific! ). It was mostly on target, maybe slightly optimistic.

Originally Posted by Michael_S

Nice review.

We cross-shopped the Entourage against the Honda Odyssey and bought the Odyssey instead. In our particular case, the biggest factor was poor treatment at the two closest Hyundai dealerships. But aside from that:

Thanks. The dealer we purchased from was OK, shortly after purchase a new dealer opened up closer to us with great service.

- Most comparison tests put their speed times as close enough to be insignificant, but seat-of-the-pants feel was that the Odyssey has plenty of power but the Entourage is noticeably faster.

I drove a used Odyssey as well as a used Pilot with the same 3.5L V6 after we had gotten the Entourage, and I'd agree, they don't have the same seat of the pants feel.

- The Entourage is only available, if I remember right, in a 2/2/3 seating configuration. The Odyssey has 2/3/3 and each of the second row seat portions can be removed. If you take out the middle second row seat, which is the smallest, and slide one of the other seats in its place, then access to the third row seats is easy. If you leave the middle second row seat in, it's more difficult to access the third row of the Odyssey than the Entourage.

Yep, just the 2-2-3, which would have been a little better if one of the second row seats could be repositioned to make a bench like you said. The Entourage seats flip/fold, but they don't leave a very big opening and in cases like yours child seats take away the use of this.

Thanks for the Honda/Hyundai comparison BTW - we did not take a hard look at the Odyssey when shopping, though I kind of wish we had.

Originally Posted by SullyND

Maybe I missed it, but what made it "Former"? What did you replace it with, and why? Good review.

Thanks - its replacement is covered here. No need for as big a vehicle and the lower mileage, though the space has been utilized for sure (just not all of it often enough to justify keeping it).