What exactly is wrong with Saturn?

[GPScott]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

So I am the ONLY person in 2 pages that has thought one of Saturn's biggest problems is the the fact you can not haggle on price (especially when you can get a similar GM product at a "haggled lower price". Weird.

I mean, I seriously looked hard at the SL2 back in 1996, but ended up buying a Contour instead because the Ford dealership was willing to deal.

You're not the only person... it drives me crazy too.

When every other marque's dealerships will sell cars at invoice, but Saturn is demanding a premium comparatively... why would anyone go there? I thought about trading my Grand Prix for an Aura recently but only because I was going to be able to get college grad pricing.

[bigtime]

That no haggle thing is a big deal breaker. Go walk around the lot and "whatever's on the sticker is what you pay." Screw that. Everything is negotiable. When your buying something as big as a car you want to feel like you got a "deal."

And, I asked a friend once why he didn't like saturns. He said, "the logo is stupid."


So, as you can see, there are many reasons. lol

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

So I am the ONLY person in 2 pages that has thought one of Saturn's biggest problems is the the fact you can not haggle on price (especially when you can get a similar GM product at a "haggled lower price". Weird.

I mean, I seriously looked hard at the SL2 back in 1996, but ended up buying a Contour instead because the Ford dealership was willing to deal.

I agree, it is the second reason I don't consider Saturn (first is I am not driving 30 miles when there are dozens of GM dealers within 15 miles).

Has GM heard of the Internet?

Edmunds

Kelly Blue Book

Cars.com

Etc. Etc..

Anyone serious about car buying today checks the internet for features, price and even inventory so you figure out your price, narrow the field and know where the car you want is.

Then you go test drive the finalists and negotiate on the one you want.

Why is this hard?

[eurohazard]

Thank you guys for the last 3 posts. I was really begining to think I was the only one. I'd like to add more about it too. In the begining of Saturn, the SL sedans weren't like anything GM had.....different engines, different dent-resistant panels etc. The no haggle worked, because the prices seemed competitive. I remember Saturns carrying somewhat of a higher resale value than other similarly equipped/sized GM products; and I feel the "set" no haggle price was a big factor. Does that hold true today? I don't see it, but then again I haven't looked for it either.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

Thank you guys for the last 3 posts. I was really begining to think I was the only one. I'd like to add more about it too. In the begining of Saturn, the SL sedans weren't like anything GM had.....different engines, different dent-resistant panels etc. The no haggle worked, because the prices seemed competitive. I remember Saturns carrying somewhat of a higher resale value than other similarly equipped/sized GM products; and I feel the "set" no haggle price was a big factor. Does that hold true today? I don't see it, but then again I haven't looked for it either.

I don't know about anyone else but my 05 ION was well below sticker: $500 loyalty incentive,$500 LA Auto Show and 500 in factory incentives and 1000 for accessories or the extended warranty [5 year 60,000 miles].

I can't remember what the exact #s were but I took the extended warranty, added 700 to the total to make a down payment of 20 % , then went to my credit union and got the loan for 3.75 %. The car listed at over 14,000. I got it for about 100 more than the 99 Cavalier I bought new [$11.8].

Personally that haggling BS is for the birds, but I still managed to get a "deal" even with the no haggle. Just bottom line it right up front,it's all performance art anyway and for me an irritating waste of time. A lot of people enjoy it though, but I don't see that as a significant reason not to shop at a Saturn retailer. They have plenty of reasons why NOT. Even the Aura, Sky and VUE are offering 0% financing. The Astra: nothing, even with almost a year's supply available. Go figure.

The place where I bought the Cavalier lists them with all incentives, total bottom line pricing. And at the time I bought it, the Saturn seemed ridiculously expensive for what you got: essentially wheels, doors, engine trans.

The Cavalier had ABS, 4 speed auto, traction control, AC and power steering. The most basic of the S series, with all that listed for substantially more. Even power steering was optional.

Even when a buyer thinks he "screwed" the dealer, the dealer usually wins, regardless.

[LAMRONH]

Originally Posted by redfox

Most people loyal to GM don't consider or know Saturn is part of GM.

Originally Posted by bigtime

That no haggle thing is a big deal breaker. Go walk around the lot and "whatever's on the sticker is what you pay." Screw that. Everything is negotiable. When your buying something as big as a car you want to feel like you got a "deal."

And, I asked a friend once why he didn't like saturns. He said, "the logo is stupid."


So, as you can see, there are many reasons. lol

What's wrong with Saturn? Let me count the ways...

1. What's a Saturn?

2. Do they advertise?

3. Where are the dealers?

4. The no-haggle could work @ 250-500 over invoice. More than that, savvy buyers moveon.org.

5. What a dumb logo. I thought they killed Oldsmobile.

6. Not enough autonomy, but that is all GM divisions' problem.

7. What sets Saturn apart? A Lexus-like dealer experience?

8. The neighborhood. It's next to Uranus.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by LAMRONH

8. The neighborhood. It's next to Uranus.

Ok, that's funny! I don't care who you are!

[GPScott]

Originally Posted by Citation84

I don't know about anyone else but my 05 ION was well below sticker: $500 loyalty incentive,$500 LA Auto Show and 500 in factory incentives and 1000 for accessories or the extended warranty [5 year 60,000 miles].

I can't remember what the exact #s were but I took the extended warranty, added 700 to the total to make a down payment of 20 % , then went to my credit union and got the loan for 3.75 %. The car listed at over 14,000. I got it for about 100 more than the 99 Cavalier I bought new [$11.8].

They are all factory rebates though. There is room to haggle with the dealer everywhere but Saturn. I bought my Grand Prix at invoice price plus a $1000 factory rebate and 0% GMAC financing. I couldn't have asked for a better deal.

Now I know that Pontiac is in the toilet, but still. Even a small bit of haggling makes some people (like myself) feel better about the deal.

[guitarlix]

Originally Posted by ARCANGEL

its the non existent dealer network!!!! when GMC gets scrapped and Saturn takes its spot u will see sales jump

Talk about wishful thinking. Sales wil BARELY see an increase compared to the equivalent rise in number of dealerships.

Sorry, Saturn's issues are not dealership related. Put simply, people want a Saturn as much as they want a Suzuki or Mitsubishi - i.e. not very much.

All 3 brands have solid product, but their sales are dismal because of brand image, or lack of brand image. Saturn has huge issues associated with the brand. If people are talking about pushing Saturn in place of a brand like Buick, they're insane. That would just quicken GM's demise.

There are ways around Saturn's predicament, but not the way the brand is positioned today. Everything sold at Saturn is already sold at another GM division. It's existence is totally pointless right now. That can change. But I don't see anything in GM's pipeline that addresses that. It's just more of the same. And that's more FAIL.

[Citation84]

Originally Posted by GPScott

They are all factory rebates though. There is room to haggle with the dealer everywhere but Saturn. I bought my Grand Prix at invoice price plus a $1000 factory rebate and 0% GMAC financing. I couldn't have asked for a better deal.

Now I know that Pontiac is in the toilet, but still. Even a small bit of haggling makes some people (like myself) feel better about the deal.

How does it matter they were factory rebates ? I didn't pay sticker. The deal was great and it was no pressure and no BS. The dealer games are such bull ****. I don't "feel" any less good about my deal than if I had gone through that garbage and squeezed a couple hundred more off the price.

Even at invoice there is dealer hold back and more complex factory to dealer discounting, etc. They never felt whatever you haggled them down to. They do this every day, not every 2-5 years.

You made out well. And I will bet just as many people have gone off feeling screwed afterward or pissed off ?

NOT having to go through that crap is a pleasure.

[Sal Collaziano]

Maybe what Saturn needs is a vehicle that really makes people think. I think the Sky has done a little bit of that. Then again, I never see one. The Aura is nice.. But maybe Saturn needs a full-size car that impresses people who buy Saturns.. The Hyundai Genesis is "the car" for Hyundai. What's "the car" for Saturn?

If Saturn is supposed to be upscale - than they need a really upscale full-size model.

[montrealvue]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

If Saturn is supposed to be upscale - than they need a really upscale full-size model.

True, but what is the point? GM would be duplicating efforts again. They already have Buick and Cadillac for that. Saab is supposed to be the "upper end" of the Saturn line. So what do they have? the 9-5 that has been on the same platform since 1995! If anything, Saab should have been updated for this decade years ago then it would actually attract buyers to showrooms. I think it is too late as Saab isn't on anyone's radar anymore.

Though I risk being stoned to death here, GM should lose Pontiac, Saturn and GMC and have Chevy and Cadillac. The multiple brand idea is from the 60's, it doesn't work anymore! I love Saturn and the concept, but the reality is it isn't a big money maker and I don't think it ever will be.

[guitarlix]

Originally Posted by montrealvue

Though I risk being stoned to death here, GM should lose Pontiac, Saturn and GMC and have Chevy and Cadillac. The multiple brand idea is from the 60's, it doesn't work anymore! I love Saturn and the concept, but the reality is it isn't a big money maker and I don't think it ever will be.

Don't worry about it. I've been experiencing that for a good 2 and half years when I proposed these ideas. Now, the people who stoned me are saying the same things themselves.

Ultimately, you want GM to survive and be profitable.......not Saturn, GMC etc. There really only is one company here - GM.

[schmallz]

What's wrong with Saturn?

The fact that it is Saturn.

It's sudden shift in it's target consumer.



Does anyone remember thoses adds that aired 8-10 months ago?

"Saturn wasn't named after the planet, but the rockets that launched the missions to the moon..."

"Oh, that's why the Logo has an image of Saturn and it's ring"

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

There is NOTHING wrong with Saturn.
It is in the best position to succeed compared to all other GM Brands!!

The issue is that Saturn continues to remain the red-headed stepchild at GM, despite having better product and more consistently up to date product.
GM is slowly losing the opportunity to kick Saturn into high gear.

Saturn should be doing well, but the marketing is abysmal.

The marketing is just fine. The brand just doesn't work. Saturn doesn't quite know who saturn is. They started as a small sedan company and now they currently don't have a small sedan. The Astra does not and will not sell more than 20k units a year as a hatchback, the Aura and Outlook are redundant to the Malibu and Traverse, and the Sky is redundant to Pontiac. All Saturn really has is the Vue. Where can this brand go? Do they become Opel USA and sell a full line very low volume euro imports?