Saturns' No haggle policy.

[coaster.n3rd]

I've been reading a lot of complaints here about Saturns' no haggle policy. (see also: Whining) What I don't get is why the complaints. No one has posted a valid answer to the question. Answers and comments so far have been vague at best.

The general consensus is that it puts Saturn at a disadvantage over the other brands, yet real numbers and not bloated opinions show otherwise.

March:
GM March 2008 Sales Down 13%; Retail Sales Up

* Strong Retail Month at Saturn with Aura Up 25 Percent, Vue Up 18 Percent and Outlook Up 14 Percent, offsetting Ion.

February:
February 2008 Sales: GM (down 13%)

Car Retail Sales Driven By Malibu Up 62 Percent; CTS Up 71 Percent; Cobalt Up 24 Percent; Aura Up 21 Percent; and G6 Up 6 Percent

January:
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...74&docid=43042

Saturn 2008: 15,359 - 2007: 13,705 Change +12.1



So I ask you, whats going on? What do you really have against Saturn? Why is everyone suddenly jumping on this "down with Saturn" bandwagon when the brand is doing better than ever.

I'm in this business and I have been for almost 2 years. Not once have I had a retail customer (non GMS/GSU) complain about pur price or the no haggle apporach. Granted I am one region and i would like to hear from others. But the consistent whining from those who are not even shopping for cars is getting boring.

You can't argue the numbers, so whats the real excuse?

[plane]

Look, if you will throw in the sunroof, you'll get an answer.
Otherwise forget it.

[DuSpinnst]

I get GMS but if I didn't I'd still got to Saturn. I like the fact you don't have to argue over price. The car costs what it costs.

However I was quite upset when the delaers marked up the Sky.

[atomicshark]

Personally, I want Saturn to succeed. I think the lineup is excellent and the no haggle pricing is, for the most part, fair.

The problem that most people complain about is that Saturn is an exception in a highly competitively landscape of automotive brands.

Many people will test drive an $18,000+ Astra XE only to buy a Civic LX because the Honda dealer is willing to go down to $17,000. Saturn does not have the caché to cost that much more than the industry benchmark, even if the Astra is slightly better.

Like it or not, Saturn is competing in a very price sensitive market. Saturn is doing well, but perhaps it could (for example) tweak Astra it's pricing a bit to compete better with the Civic among others.

Overall a little flexibility can go a long way. One reason why I bought our VUE was because it had $1,000 on the hood and Saturn of Smithhaven came through with $500 worth of free accessories. I think that is a good thing.

[HoosierRon]

Saturn is not doing better "than ever". If you refrain from cherry picking particular models, and look at overall division sales, you see that comparing January - March 2008 sales to 2007 sales, Saturn is down 15.3%. Of course, it could be just the bad economy, but there is no way to tell.

Overall division sales for the year:

1999 - 232,570
2000 - 271,800
2001 - 260,730
2002 - 280,248
2003 - 271,157
2004 - 212,017
2005 - 213,657
2006 - 226,375
2007 - 240,091

If Saturn is down 15% for the entire year, it will sell 204,077 vehicles this year.

[coaster.n3rd]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

Saturn is not doing better "than ever". If you refrain from cherry picking particular models, and look at overall division sales, you see that comparing January - March 2008 sales to 2007 sales, Saturn is down 15.3%. Of course, it could be just the bad economy, but there is no way to tell.

Overall division sales for the year:

1999 - 232,570
2000 - 271,800
2001 - 260,730
2002 - 280,248
2003 - 271,157
2004 - 212,017
2005 - 213,657
2006 - 226,375
2007 - 240,091

If Saturn is down 15% for the entire year, it will sell 204,077 vehicles this year.

"Better than ever" may be a little hard on my part, you will still see Saturn is doing well if not great, especially over the last 3 years since the dip in 04.

None the less, this does not answer the original question or show what if any negative problem has been put on Saturn because of no haggle pricing. I'm very interested to hear from other markets as I am in a unique region. No one has proven once that no haggle has hurt the brand. It certainly has not hurt Scion.

[CobaltSScrazy]

Coaster, I like the fact of no haggle. Fortunately getting GMS/Pepping our family is able to get a good deal even more.

I think people hate on Saturn for the simple fact that AURA, ASTRA, VUE, OUTLOOK, AND SKY are not 'blockbuster' 86 taurus kind of hits. The brand has been completely revitalized and its not tearing up the sales charts. I don't know the exact numbers but I've heard Saturn has WAY WAY WAY WAY ...WAY! underperformed compared to the new models and investment against sales. Yes sales are up, but I think people on GMI and to a lesser extent at the RenCen expected 300-350,000 sales in the USA and AURA to be a runaway hit like Malibu is turning into...and its not.

There are many reasons why this hasn't happened including Saturn NOT being popular outside of Michigan/Midwest and S. California on top of the HUGE LACK OF MARKETING campaign compared to Malibu/CTS/Silverado/GMT900's. Its really embarrassing to give great product and then non back it up with effect marketing ($$$$$)

I have nothing against saturn, my brother was obsessed with the Ion Red Line with the Competition Package some years ago and somewhat still is. I liked the LSJ SS, he liked the RL. One day we both will have these Ecotec pocket rockets with my turn beginning this November. I love SKY, regular and RL, and if it had a little bit more livable cabin and could function as a year round daily driving car (for a non-married guy) I'd probably jump on it and pass on the Cobalt SS. I really like the Aura as its kind of like an 06 Accord looks wise and then that car got redesigned and then Malibu came out and the styling just seems JUST a bit, dated. It's a little bit too tough of a ride for my Mom and she didn't like the styling of it as much ( I know I know, very wierd) otherwise than that and the G6 taillamps we'd probably own the car.

I think people might hate on saturn in general b/c if all of their products had went to Chevy/Pontiac maybe GM collectively would be stronger,....but then again, maybe they wouldn't attract any new customers either.

To answer your specific question, idk why you think people hate on it. I like the cost what it cost and if you can throw 500-1000$ to close a deal on a higher priced Saturn vehicle, cool. ...I understand not doing that though: two words-> Slippery Slope.

CobaltSS

[thejokester]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

Coaster, I like the fact of no haggle. Fortunately getting GMS/Pepping our family is able to get a good deal even more.

I think people hate on Saturn for the simple fact that AURA, ASTRA, VUE, OUTLOOK, AND SKY are not 'blockbuster' 86 taurus kind of hits. The brand has been completely revitalized and its not tearing up the sales charts. I don't know the exact numbers but I've heard Saturn has WAY WAY WAY WAY ...WAY! underperformed compared to the new models and investment against sales. Yes sales are up, but I think people on GMI and to a lesser extent at the RenCen expected 300-350,000 sales in the USA and AURA to be a runaway hit like Malibu is turning into...and its not.

There are many reasons why this hasn't happened including Saturn NOT being popular outside of Michigan/Midwest and S. California on top of the HUGE LACK OF MARKETING campaign compared to Malibu/CTS/Silverado/GMT900's. Its really embarrassing to give great product and then non back it up with effect marketing ($$$$$)

I have nothing against saturn, my brother was obsessed with the Ion Red Line with the Competition Package some years ago and somewhat still is. I liked the LSJ SS, he liked the RL. One day we both will have these Ecotec pocket rockets with my turn beginning this November. I love SKY, regular and RL, and if it had a little bit more livable cabin and could function as a year round daily driving car (for a non-married guy) I'd probably jump on it and pass on the Cobalt SS. I really like the Aura as its kind of like an 06 Accord looks wise and then that car got redesigned and then Malibu came out and the styling just seems JUST a bit, dated. It's a little bit too tough of a ride for my Mom and she didn't like the styling of it as much ( I know I know, very wierd) otherwise than that and the G6 taillamps we'd probably own the car.

I think people might hate on saturn in general b/c if all of their products had went to Chevy/Pontiac maybe GM collectively would be stronger,....but then again, maybe they wouldn't attract any new customers either.

To answer your specific question, idk why you think people hate on it. I like the cost what it cost and if you can throw 500-1000$ to close a deal on a higher priced Saturn vehicle, cool. ...I understand not doing that though: two words-> Slippery Slope.

CobaltSS

has nothing to do with the no haggle policy! thanks!

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by coaster.n3rd

I've been reading a lot of complaints here about Saturns' no haggle policy. (see also: Whining) What I don't get is why the complaints. No one has posted a valid answer to the question. Answers and comments so far have been vague at best.

The general consensus is that it puts Saturn at a disadvantage over the other brands, yet real numbers and not bloated opinions show otherwise.

March:
GM March 2008 Sales Down 13%; Retail Sales Up

* Strong Retail Month at Saturn with Aura Up 25 Percent, Vue Up 18 Percent and Outlook Up 14 Percent, offsetting Ion.

February:
February 2008 Sales: GM (down 13%)

Car Retail Sales Driven By Malibu Up 62 Percent; CTS Up 71 Percent; Cobalt Up 24 Percent; Aura Up 21 Percent; and G6 Up 6 Percent

January:
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...74&docid=43042

Saturn 2008: 15,359 - 2007: 13,705 Change +12.1

So I ask you, whats going on? What do you really have against Saturn? Why is everyone suddenly jumping on this "down with Saturn" bandwagon when the brand is doing better than ever.

I'm in this business and I have been for almost 2 years. Not once have I had a retail customer (non GMS/GSU) complain about pur price or the no haggle apporach. Granted I am one region and i would like to hear from others. But the consistent whining from those who are not even shopping for cars is getting boring.

You can't argue the numbers, so whats the real excuse?

I, for one, like no haggle pricing in theory.

However, you have this pattern of presenting arguments based on flawed logical reasoning.

Just because sales are up for certain models, that doesn't mean that No Haggling is currently beneficial to the brand. For all we know, Saturn could be selling 300,000 cars this year if haggling were allowed

In otherwords: if sales are up 20% now, they could have been up 50% had no-haggling gone the way of plastic body panels and Spring Hill.

Or sales could have tanked. We just don't know. Post all the sales numbers you want, that's not the definitive proof you think it is.

[prowlerjc]

I am one of those people who probably won't buy a Saturn, at least not a new one, because of the no haggle policy. Since this is the second biggest purchase, behind a house, and we know the invoice pricing, you dang sure better be willing to come down in price to get my business.

However, I do consider incentives a form of one shot haggling, so I do take that into account.

[AmericanRevolution]

As a past Saturn salesperson, I can say it is truly an advantage, and one that dealer after dealer are starting to adopt - 1/4th of the dealers in this area have since taken on the "No haggle" policy from Saturn. And I would say maybe once a month I'd get someone who'd be upset. The vast, vast, VAST majority much prefer the Saturn setup.

And they likely will not buy elsewhere. There's a reason its called the Saturn family - once you buy from Saturn, you always buy because you become part of a family.

[AmericanRevolution]

Originally Posted by prowlerjc

I am one of those people who probably won't buy a Saturn, at least not a new one, because of the no haggle policy. Since this is the second biggest purchase, behind a house, and we know the invoice pricing, you dang sure better be willing to come down in price to get my business.

However, I do consider incentives a form of one shot haggling, so I do take that into account.

Keep in mind the difference between invoice and MSRP at Saturn is about 4.9%-5%. The difference between invoice and MSRP at other companies are generally 8-12% difference. That's a big part of why. Saturn Ion's and Saturn Sky's, the dealer makes less than $1K. If I rember right, Sky's usually mean us as a dealer made about $600. Meaning the salesperson makes $100 or $150. Now, with that in mind, tell me how the dealer can go down anymore than that - especially when they're usually a stand-alone dealer where they don't profit from other companies.

That is part of why there's a no-haggle setup. Haggling much off that means the dealer and salesperson wont make ANY money. And if they don't make money, they can't be in business.

Both sides win with the no-haggle policy - the dealer/sales person can still make some $$ while the purchaser gets a good deal and its simple - here's the car, here's the price, if you like it, sign here. No hours of negotiating.

[Minnesota Nice]

When prices are fair, the no haggle policy works well. But when I see dealers marking up cars (even $100), the no haggle pricing thing is ridiculous. If you're going to offer no haggle, you need to make it an appealing deal.

No one in their right mind is going to consider no haggle at MSRP, no one.

Example: I went to a Mazda dealer that was no haggle. They had a top of the line Mazda3 GT sedan with EVERYTHING on it. I'm talking leather, xenon, LED, you name it. They were asking $19,300 flat. The car retails for 22,900. That's no haggle. I have no problem with that price.

BUt I can definitely see why people would be pissy with the no haggle when they are asking MSRP or higher.

[AmericanRevolution]

Originally Posted by Minnesota Nice

When prices are fair, the no haggle policy works well. But when I see dealers marking up cars (even $100), the no haggle pricing thing is ridiculous. If you're going to offer no haggle, you need to make it an appealing deal.

No one in their right mind is going to consider no haggle at MSRP, no one.

Example: I went to a Mazda dealer that was no haggle. They had a top of the line Mazda3 GT sedan with EVERYTHING on it. I'm talking leather, xenon, LED, you name it. They were asking $19,300 flat. The car retails for 22,900. That's no haggle. I have no problem with that price.

BUt I can definitely see why people would be pissy with the no haggle when they are asking MSRP or higher.

Like I said above... Saturn's there is really no room to haggle. Sky's for example, the dealer makes $600 on. SIX HUNDRED!! That's NOTHING. lol

When you consider the fact that the markup between invoice and MSRP at Saturn is so much less than MSRP on most other brands, you realize part of the reason why they don't do it.

Just like any business, they still need to make $$ - without it, they wouldn't be in business.

[Minnesota Nice]

Understandable. I would never haggle a car down to the point that the dealer or salesperson doesn't make much money on it.

However, I'm not going to be taken for a fool. You aren't going to give me the run around, and I'm not going to take it if that is what I feel like I'm getting.

I know salesmen need to eat, and provide for families oftentimes, but I disagree with inflating prices because you have a hot product. That's just ****ty business.

Saturn seems okay in that respect, minus the Sky debacle.