What GM needs to do to make the Volt successful/better.

[uboys]

Some will come at a later date, and some will come sooner, but I think this is what needs to be done:


1. Give them away a dime a dozen free to celebrities and important government, media and business figures.

People like Bill O'Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, Barbara Streisand, Barbara Walters, Oprah, Demi Moore, Pharell Williams, the White House fleet, Nancy Pelosi, the Ambassador to Great Britain (and other embassy staff in major countries), Warren Buffett, Mark Cuban etc.

They really need to push these among leaders in government, business and society. It's a lot considering the 10,000 the first year, but it's necessary that some kind of buzz gets going in these circles.


2. It needs five seats as fast as possible.


The car needs to approach "normalcy" in terms of speed, range and weight:

3. Raise the top speed and 0-60.

Currently it is at 100mph. That is "enough", but "enough" is not "enough". It needs to at least be 120mph sustained. Its 0-60 times need to move from the 8 to 9 second range all the way down to the 6 second range. That seems fast for an eco-mobile, but it cannot stay in Prius country for too long.

They have already seen fit not to give the Volt tiny wheels like the Prius. That is a good start.


4. It needs a bigger generator. All the more to create more power.

How about 80 to 100 Kilowatts?


5. It needs a bigger range on the range-extender. Where is it at? 400 miles? They should push for over 600 miles again. What is the Prius range? It should obliterate the Prius' range (and not by a piddling 50 miles either).


6. 40 miles is not enough.
It may be "enough" statistically", but 50 miles sounds better, and 60 miles is about 100km (great-sounding for Europe).
Ideally it should be 100miles for a slam dunk, but realistically, I think they should push for 50 or 60 by the second generation.


7. The styling needs to improve.

It needs to be more striking and have a longer, leaner and more aggressive stance. Think Audi S5.

People might tolerate a Kammback, but a long sleek shape would have people fainting for one.

It eeds great wheels and great style. The more it looks like a nice "normal" car (albeit with high-tech touches and lots of style, the better it will do.


8. It should be Nurburgring-tested.
Handling should be uncompromised--even if they have to modify the suspension on Delta. Car enthusiasts would go wild.


9. The price needs to drop.

It should sit and stay between $23,000 and $32,000.

No money should be spent on variants. No coupe and no "SS" nonsense. All money should be spent on the original.


10. GM marketing should be locked in a closet.

Who should they hire instead?

It has to leave the Prius in the dust very fast, and they should update and upgrade it yearly. It must distance itself from Toyota and all the other me-too series hybrids that are sure to follow very quickly.

It needs to pull away--and very, very rapidly.

[uboys]

Bonus.

11. It needs to move to Epsilon II as fast as technically possible.

With the same specs, that would allow for more space, better styling and better handling.

That would be awesome!

[jkennedy293]

So, you want the Volt, which is supposed to be green, and give it more power when its clear that more power will not help to sell additional units. The 0-60 times for the Volt are already 4-5 seconds quicker than the Prius. You also want to lift its top speed to over 100 mph, when its obvious to just about anyone that the buyers of the Volt won't go anywhere near that speed.

Oh yeah, at the same time you want GM to give the Volt more power and speed, you also want them to increase the range, and sell it for almost nothing. Would you also like it to fly and cure cancer too?

[eurohazard]

2. It needs five seats as fast as possible.


The car needs to approach "normalcy" in terms of speed, range and weight:

3. Raise the top speed and 0-60.

Currently it is at 100mph. That is "enough", but "enough" is not "enough". It needs to at least be 120mph sustained. Its 0-60 times need to move from the 8 to 9 second range all the way down to the 6 second range. That seems fast for an eco-mobile, but it cannot stay in Prius country for too long.

They have already seen fit not to give the Volt tiny wheels like the Prius. That is a good start.

2) I darn near agree with you on this one. But the nature of this car almost locks it down to being a 'second' or even 3rd car for a family. Plus the inherent design is built around the fact the battery is located in the "tunnel". I think this will affect a small percentage of potential buyers, maybe 10-15% by my estimate.

3) I wholeheartedly disagree with. If GM can make it go 0-60 mph quicker, then the range suffers. By upping the limiter to 120 mph, it sets a bad example, and it allows some numbnuts magazine tester to "try it out"...and then slander the product for only having a range of 18 miles. 100 mph is still really fast (for the record I'm not saying I have never done it), and it's quite unnecessary. I don't know the math, but the difference of pushing air at 120 vs 100 mph is quite high......and way more than say 80 mph. Pushing all that air will kill the range too. Also going 0-60 in 9-9.5 seconds is totally reasonable....it will allow for safe highway merging without endangering anyone or decreasing range too much.

[uboys]

I should say these are improvements for the future.

The car should not feel like a green compromise--bad handling, sluggish, low speed, dorky-looking.

Lutz specifically said that the car should not feel like a punishment.

As such, the 100mph limit has go to be raised.

Nobody goes 120 in even a regular gas car, but that is not the point. In the future with better efficiency, better packaging and better energy density, the top speed has got to be raised to more normal levels.

Here is an S5 to show proportions:



As the battery and powertrain technology becomes more and more efficient, aerodynamics and power limitations will be less needed in order to attain the 40 mile range (hopefully 50).
Hopefully then they can put some haunches and some shoulders on the Volt. It needs some curves badly.

[fp115]

3. Bad handling, sluggish? For having a very heavy battery pack it would handle very well. Also if you were to not limit the acceleration as GM is doing with the Volt to achieve better 0-60, the range will drop significantly and will also cause the battery to not live up to its expected 10 years.

What is the point of driving up the max speed to 120? No one will drive that fast and no one would be even able to control the car. Have you forgotten the weight the battery pack has? The car would begin to swerve due to lack of downforce and weight distribution.


5. That can easily be done, but in order to cut the weight and make the vehicle more efficient a smaller fuel tank was given to the Volt. I would rather see a lower weight than have a larger range which would most likely not affect the majority of people anyway. People who are buying this will use it to commute and the majority won't see trips that are much longer than 300 miles. You can't compare the Prius in this case, the Prius you still need to go to the gas station, the Volt you may never need to.


7. Find a way to give superior aerodynamics while giving it a great shape. The S5 as you mentioned doesn't nearly have as great aerodynamics as the Volt.


8. Again, this is being done.


9. Where do you see a coupe or an SS? The price cannot drop, you are hoping for GM to absorb too much of a large chunk and sell the cars even more at loss than they will? That is outrageous. Those who think the car is too costly won't get the first generation, the first generation will sell with no problem. Second generation you will see the cost of the battery and other technologies drop to which the Volt can get a smaller price tag. But for GM to eat up the bulk of the cost is quite simply stupid.

[HoeyHimself]

Originally Posted by fp115

3. Bad handling, sluggish? For having a very heavy battery pack it would handle very well. Also if you were to not limit the acceleration as GM is doing with the Volt to achieve better 0-60, the range will drop significantly and will also cause the battery to not live up to its expected 10 years.

What is the point of driving up the max speed to 120? No one will drive that fast and no one would be even able to control the car. Have you forgotten the weight the battery pack has? The car would begin to swerve due to lack of downforce and weight distribution.


5. That can easily be done, but in order to cut the weight and make the vehicle more efficient a smaller fuel tank was given to the Volt. I would rather see a lower weight than have a larger range which would most likely not affect the majority of people anyway. People who are buying this will use it to commute and the majority won't see trips that are much longer than 300 miles. You can't compare the Prius in this case, the Prius you still need to go to the gas station, the Volt you may never need to.


7. Find a way to give superior aerodynamics while giving it a great shape. The S5 as you mentioned doesn't nearly have as great aerodynamics as the Volt.


8. Again, this is being done.


9. Where do you see a coupe or an SS? The price cannot drop, you are hoping for GM to absorb too much of a large chunk and sell the cars even more at loss than they will? That is outrageous. Those who think the car is too costly won't get the first generation, the first generation will sell with no problem. Second generation you will see the cost of the battery and other technologies drop to which the Volt can get a smaller price tag. But for GM to eat up the bulk of the cost is quite simply stupid.

I don't think he was implying all of this should happen upon the first year's launch. To me, it sounds like he was saying it should progressively be sought over the course of the next generation. And I think much of what he requests is possible in the future.

[crooner214]

I think you are missing the point of the Volt. It is not, and never was, intended to be the greatest car that ever existed. It is designed to be as efficient, and affordable, as possible. I don't even know where to start...

1. Don't give any away. Every single person/entity you have listed needs to purchase one themselves. As expensive as development was for this car, they need the money. Also, who gives a **** if Warren Buffet drives a Volt? Certainly not me!

2. Four seats is plenty. Even adding two hundred pounds of passenger will detrimentally effect mileage/efficiency.

3. This is not a Corvette Sedan. Besides that, how many times have you seen 100mph on public roads in your life? I'm willing to bet it is less than a dozen. regardless, the highest speed limit I have seen in my life is 75, and I have no rational reason to ever go 120mph in a car that wasn't specifically designed to do so. As far as raising the 0-60, things are fine the way they are with the Volt. I never heard a VW Microbus owner complain about their 20 second trip to 60.

I think I am quite finished for now. By the way, uboys, has your cow returned from it's trip over the moon yet?


I really am not trying to be mean. Most of the ideas you have are excellent, but they aren't right for this car.

[fp115]

Also in regards to price...

People who buy hybrids aren't buying it to be cheap, otherwise they would do the math and realize that their 2-3 mpg they save actually won't repay itself for another 10 years. The cost of having a 30 mpg vehicle will run you at $2k a year for gas, the Volt will run you, $73. A typical compact costs about $400 a month for 60 months, the Volt should cost about $550 per month for 60 months. If you actually do the math the Volt will come up costing you the same as this 30 mpg compact per year, even though you are paying more per month. Pretty good for a car that is nearly $10k more. Not only that but you get an unmatched warranty on the Volt, 10 years.

[uboys]

Originally Posted by HoeyHimself

I don't think he was implying all of this should happen upon the first year's launch. To me, it sounds like he was saying it should progressively be sought over the course of the next generation. And I think much of what he requests is possible in the future.

Correct. Thank you. I thought I was clear.

[uboys]

Originally Posted by crooner214

I think you are missing the point of the Volt. It is not, and never was, intended to be the greatest car that ever existed. It is designed to be as efficient, and affordable, as possible. I don't even know where to start...

1. Don't give any away. Every single person/entity you have listed needs to purchase one themselves. As expensive as development was for this car, they need the money. Also, who gives a **** if Warren Buffet drives a Volt? Certainly not me!

2. Four seats is plenty. Even adding two hundred pounds of passenger will detrimentally effect mileage/efficiency.

3. This is not a Corvette Sedan. Besides that, how many times have you seen 100mph on public roads in your life? I'm willing to bet it is less than a dozen. regardless, the highest speed limit I have seen in my life is 75, and I have no rational reason to ever go 120mph in a car that wasn't specifically designed to do so. As far as raising the 0-60, things are fine the way they are with the Volt. I never heard a VW Microbus owner complain about their 20 second trip to 60.

I think I am quite finished for now. By the way, uboys, has your cow returned from it's trip over the moon yet?


I really am not trying to be mean. Most of the ideas you have are excellent, but they aren't right for this car.

You are likely Toyota's target buyer. You must think cars are some sort of appliance or the other.

A car is much more than "the most efficient way to get from A to B". With that mindset, GM should certainly just re-package the G-Whiz:



From the time you start talking about how "nobody needs to do 120" you are missing the point of a vehicle entirely.
A car is not about what is just barely possible for a price you can get away with.

(Why do you think car companies do extreme cold weather, high altitude and extreme heat testing? How many people commute through the Mojave? Up Pike's Peak daily? Tool around the Arctic?)

The Volt must not be a punishment, and should be as capable as any other car on the road, as fast as technology would allow it.

[t-rex]

Originally Posted by fp115

Also in regards to price...

People who buy hybrids aren't buying it to be cheap, otherwise they would do the math and realize that their 2-3 mpg they save actually won't repay itself for another 10 years. The cost of having a 30 mpg vehicle will run you at $2k a year for gas, the Volt will run you, $73. A typical compact costs about $400 a month for 60 months, the Volt should cost about $550 per month for 60 months. If you actually do the math the Volt will come up costing you the same as this 30 mpg compact per year, even though you are paying more per month. Pretty good for a car that is nearly $10k more. Not only that but you get an unmatched warranty on the Volt, 10 years.

I'm glad someone's brought this point up. The amount saved in fuel costs, especially if fuel prices happen to climb in the future, can alone justify the additional asking price of the Volt. If the feds throw in a tax credit, like they do for solar homes, that's icing on the cake.

GM needs to make a major effort to point out the overall costs of Volt ownership to soften the blow of $40,000 in customers' minds.

How much will it cost to charge up a Volt, though? Will it be enough to be noticeable on one's montly electric bill?

[uboys]

I am still not convinced it will be $40,000.
It might be at most $37,000 before tax credits.

I think GM might be able to offer it for around $35,000 before tax credits.

[PA Dweller]

Originally Posted by uboys

Bonus.

11. It needs to move to Epsilon II as fast as technically possible.

With the same specs, that would allow for more space, better styling and better handling.

That would be awesome!

Yes, more than anything. GM should be working on this. The Volt is really nice but the back seat looks really tight, not a good option for families. I want to see mid-sized to large sedans with the E-Flex powertrain. It might not get the same range or fuel economy as the current Volt, but it would offer outstanding range that nothing similar in size can touch.

I would like to see a lower 0-60 time, it's electric after all. Is it possible to have different driving modes? Example, hit a button and it limits the performance to maximize range/fuel economy (Aka current Volt setup). Hit another button and get a faster car at the cost of some range/fuel economy.

[mgescuro]

No.

The key to Volt's success is marketing.
Right now, there's a media blitz, but I had to do some research to figure out just what the difference was between Volt and any run-of-the-mill Plug-In Hybrid.

Now, I'm someone who keeps his ear to the ground, so to speak, about what is going on in the auto industry, and if I couldn't figure it out by GM's marketing, then they've got issues.

What people will see is the exorbitant price of the Chevy Volt and go running to a Prius Plug-In because "They both have plugs." And "There's No Difference."

The ONLY thing holding back Volt is GM's inept marketing.