Volt - in captivity ... touched and pic'd

[uboys]

Originally Posted by john1701a

That prior comment describes viewing the GMI stance last year on Two-Mode perfectly.

.


Volt was indeed vaporware. None of the original model survived. What's on display now is a realistic version of a "series" hybrid. Significant changes between concept and what ends up being produced should have expected.


Whatever the case, the technology itself will work fine, but the quantity available and the price will keep it from joining mainstream vehicles until quite a number of years from now.

What "original model"?

[Kennyboy]

I work in Santa Monica and never heard of the event. Weird, since I work near the Santa Monica Pier. On another note, there seems to be an awful lot of homeless people around Santa Monica. And the smell is unbearable to say the least.

Nice car through......

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I sense desperation arising from the prius fanboys...

As alluded to in an earlier post... when the PHEVs and E-REVs arrive sometime in the next 18 months they will be game changing. However they will have zero impact on the overall market. Both are too expensive to be anything other than initial baby steps toward something more significant 5-10 yrs down the road.

The Prius ( and HCH, Insight, TCH, FEH, HH, Malibu/Aura2-M, Fusion hybrid, Sonata hybrid, Silvy2-M ) will be far more significant factors in the market than either PHEV simply because the sales of these traditional hybrids will be far greater. The two PHEVs are simply show pieces in a beauty pagaent. The 'traditional' hybrids are the vehicles that will make money in the near term.

In the end this is all that matters, money, filthy lucre, gelt. The auto industry is just a business the purpose of which is to make money.

The PHEVs have to go through the Diffusion of Innovation lifecycle
http://www.valuebasedmanagement.net/...ion_curve.html
Expecting either vehicle to take the market by storm is excessively optimistic... $40000 per will also limit the 'diffusion'.

[eurohazard]

The term "fanboy" simply does not apply to about 90% of Prius owners. Most are Greenies.....and if GM had built the Prius, they might be seen as GM fanboys.

I see these alleged "fanboys" buying what ever is greener, no matter who makes it. The emblem on the hood doesn't mean ***** to these people......but it sure does to people here at GMi. Hmmm.....who are the fanboys? lol

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by zete

The Volt isn't vaporware because the Volt is more the drivetrain than the body.

The problem has been (which is well documented in blogs from 1.5 years ago) and still is the fact that people insist on specific vehicle focus.

Volt 2007 is vaporware. E-Flex is not. E-Flex is what people should have been promoting all along... the drivetrain, rather than a vehicle. Volt-Nation was self-deprecating. Consider the big picture instead. Sales are what will gauge success. Traditional vehicles are the competition, not other hybrids.

Volt 2011 will have basically nothing except drivetrain type in common with the original (2007 concept) model. No opinion or label necessary. That's just a reality of the development cycle.

[roteague]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

The term "fanboy" simply does not apply to about 90% of Prius owners. Most are Greenies.....and if GM had built the Prius, they might be seen as GM fanboys.

I don't know ... we will see how many dump their Toyota's for the Volt. Not many I think, but we will see.

Then again....

How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2008? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2009? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2010? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2011? 0

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by roteague

How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2008? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2009? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2010? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2011? 0

That's called selective data. To be constructive, you must ask the same question about the other types too.

How many FULL and ASSIST hybrids will each of the automakers have built & sold?

For example, Toyota is striving toward production of 1,000,000 annually by the end of 2011.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by roteague

I don't know ... we will see how many dump their Toyota's for the Volt. Not many I think, but we will see.

Oh yeah, I didn't mean that all Prius owners would trade....but I do feel the Volt is awesome enough that many will trade. Again, it's like the techies too......gotta have the latest and greatest, even if what they have works.

[roteague]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

Oh yeah, I didn't mean that all Prius owners would trade....but I do feel the Volt is awesome enough that many will trade.

I think you are right. I'm sure that a lot of Prius owners are Toyota loyalists, but like you say, there are a lot who have to have the "latest and greatest". The Volt is much better looking, as an added plus.

I'd like to have one myself, I live 12 miles from work, and less than 25 from most of the places I go (one advantage to living on a small island).

[roteague]

According to Bob Lutz:

"He also said the newest crop of mules are in Chevy Cruze bodies, instead of Malibus, and that they are building 3 per week and will have 50 by the end of 2008."

How many is Toyota building? 0

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by john1701a

Volt 2007 is vaporware.

Volt 2007 was never to be made so how can it be vaporware? It was a concept. When GM decided to make the Volt, they said the design would change. Thus, nothing about the Volt has ever been vaporware.

Egg meet face.

[WWI Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

Oh yeah, I didn't mean that all Prius owners would trade....but I do feel the Volt is awesome enough that many will trade. Again, it's like the techies too......gotta have the latest and greatest, even if what they have works.

Some will trade up...my buddy owns a Prius but is excited at the prospect of buying American again...same with my boss...

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by WWI Flying Ace

Some will trade up...my buddy owns a Prius but is excited at the prospect of buying American again...same with my boss...

Exactly. I would be one of them. Heck, I am one of them. I have said for as long as I've seen the GMT-900 hybrids, that if my Armadas gets totalled, I'd get a Tahoe Hybrid. But I will not take a several thousand dollar personal-loss bath just drive "American". The guys with Prius' are going to fare a lot better than a person like me with a full-size SUV. Depending on how early they bought their Prius', they got a large tax credit (money in the pocket), plus with gas prices high, Prius are still selling for $15-$22k depending on miles/condition/area. Then they will get another tax break on the Volt. Like I said, it's an easy decision when you have little to nothing to lose monetarily.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by roteague

I don't know ... we will see how many dump their Toyota's for the Volt. Not many I think, but we will see.

Then again....

How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2008? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2009? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2010? 0
How many electic (or serial hybrid) vehicles will Toyota have at the end of 2011? 0

The key concept you have to keep in mind is this.... "$40000 versus $25000".

Buyers spending $20000 to $28000 for a vehicle are NOT going to dump their vehicle, suddenly find money stashed in some mattress and step up to a $40000 vehicle. It has nothing to do with fanboi sentiment or anything like that. It has only to do with dollars and cents.

People generally cannot afford a $40000 vehicle. It doesn't matter who makes it.
It doesn't matter whether its a serial hybrid or a cereal hybrid or a parallell hybrid or a martian hybrid. IT's $40000 freakin dollars!!!!

[E. Haskell]

Here is what we should keep in mind - we don't know where GM will price the Volt and we don't know what kind of tax incentive will be on it. A $35k price point with a $5k tax credit could mean the difference between $40k and $30k. We also don't know how people will react to going from $175/month (average car) in gas to ~$20/month (will they figure this into their car payment budget?).

What we do know is that GM looks to be leading the way into a technologically advanced future where gas free driving is a reality for the masses. For that they are to be commended.