Will The Ford Falcon & Territory Live On?

[demonv8]

Went car hunting on the weekend for the wife, saw a Typhoon for $35K, was very tempted to join the dark side......

I hope Ford continues to produce RWD cars, after all I think the V8 Supercars would be boring with only 1 car body running around, oh wait a minute.....

[DUCK]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

...
That way Holden ups the volume of VE and makes money on each Falcon sold and Ford gets the modern body and suspension they need.

Now I wouldn't call the current FG Falcon's suspensions as not modern.

Forged aluminium double A-arms front suspensions with twin virtual pivots. That's something that my prev BMW E90 325i (at almost twice the money!) could only dream of...

The rear is equipped with a compact 4-link IRS.

Now add a 4L I6 turbo engine with transient overboost and ZF 6speed auto box with cylinder cut-out and you have a car that can make an E92 M3 sweat in a sprint.

It's a complete tragedy that Ford clips the Falcons wings and confines it to just Australia!!!

[63GrandSport001]

Honestly I dont see what they don't bring it to the US (even in small numbers) as this could boost production enough to justify the continued production of it.

[chinamonty]

Seeing we have a free trade agreement they should do it. I still think that is what should have happened with the Fairlane but their hesitation gave Holden the Saudi market. If FA had US exports it would have been a good outcome both ways and give better economy of scale to local suppliers.

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by DUCK

Now I wouldn't call the current FG Falcon's suspensions as not modern.

Forged aluminium double A-arms front suspensions with twin virtual pivots. That's something that my prev BMW E90 325i (at almost twice the money!) could only dream of...

The rear is equipped with a compact 4-link IRS.

Now add a 4L I6 turbo engine with transient overboost and ZF 6speed auto box with cylinder cut-out and you have a car that can make an E92 M3 sweat in a sprint.

It's a complete tragedy that Ford clips the Falcons wings and confines it to just Australia!!!

Precisely Falcons RWD platform is best Ford has globally, there is a reason why Alan M hasn't killed the falcons platform yet...
Anyone want to take a guess why?

Now take a comparative look at the VEs less exotic front suspension design...

VE was catching up to BA falcon

You all know this however being informed, auto enthusiants though hey...

[1931Chevy]

All I can say its that lets wait the 18 months,Ford and Mullally want to prove that by 2011 the company its back in the black and that way they can justify expending on a GRWD platform, remember how much Zeta costed to GM about 1 billion and if Im correct they only made 4 products out of that Platform vs 10 ford did with CD3

[MonaroSS]

I wasn't meaning Falcon's suspension is old, just that it's attached to an old platform that is in need of upgrading and they would get that with VE without having to be paired with some live axle US Mustang...... Now do you get it?

[nota]

Yeah, amalgamate Falcon with Commodore production and while you're at it lets celebrate with a rebadge!

For that winning touch why not call it a Lexen.

As before, the public would never know, or care...

[/sarcasm]

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by MonaroSS

I wasn't meaning Falcon's suspension is old, just that it's attached to an old platform that is in need of upgrading and they would get that with VE without having to be paired with some live axle US Mustang...... Now do you get it?

Umm no i still don't...you said it.

The falcons platform is modern enough and manages to achieve crash performance (among other aspects) that exceeds that of the 'so called newer' VE platform

Now if you have no scientific proof that the falcons body shell 'is passed it's prime' i suggest you stop telling fibs.

So EVERY new commodore had a NEW platform right?

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by nota

Yeah, amalgamate Falcon with Commodore production and while you're at it lets celebrate with a rebadge!

For that winning touch why not call it a Lexen.

As before, the public would never know, or care...

[/sarcasm]

No, no...use left over bits and pieces from the Pontiac mouldes and call it a special edition commodore...

[mang01]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

Umm no i still don't...you said it.

The falcons platform is modern enough and manages to achieve crash performance (among other aspects) that exceeds that of the 'so called newer' VE platform

Now if you have no scientific proof that the falcons body shell 'is passed it's prime' i suggest you stop telling fibs.

So EVERY new commodore had a NEW platform right?

He means what someone else said earlier: that the Ford body is designed around the 4.0 litre straight size (traces its roots back to the 1960 US and Aus XK model) and so is compromised as far as "modern" proportions go, i.e. if they'd fitted the V6 they talked about (since dropped) then it would have left a big empty space in front of the engine (but crowded it sideways a bit, I guess) and thus all things being equal you could move the front of the passenger compartment a commensurate distance forward within the package and achieve a larger cabin space, as they have done with the VE Commodore. That longish Falcon bonnet to accommodate the longish inline six is likely why it crashes better than VE (if it does!). More metal in that front box (of the three).
I doubt I'd ever accuse MoanroSS of telling fibs...

[ford&holden]

Originally Posted by mang01

He means what someone else said earlier: that the Ford body is designed around the 4.0 litre straight size (traces its roots back to the 1960 US and Aus XK model) and so is compromised as far as "modern" proportions go, i.e. if they'd fitted the V6 they talked about (since dropped) then it would have left a big empty space in front of the engine (but crowded it sideways a bit, I guess) and thus all things being equal you could move the front of the passenger compartment a commensurate distance forward within the package and achieve a larger cabin space, as they have done with the VE Commodore. That longish Falcon bonnet to accommodate the longish inline six is likely why it crashes better than VE (if it does!). More metal in that front box (of the three).
I doubt I'd ever accuse MoanroSS of telling fibs...

I replied to what MonaroSS said, simple as that. Not my problem if he wants to be intentionally vague for impact.

The falcon crashes properly (with a more cramped engine bay) due to Ford Oz designing the FG's platform to crash well, simple as that.

The falcons interior space is class competitive, simple as that. The FG's packaging is not as compromised as 'some' would like you to believe.
It's over stated and irelevant.

The VB commodore front end structure housed a straight 6cyl and the VN to VS structure was designed to take the 3.0 nissan straight 6 cylinder until Holden at the last minute shoehorned the buick based 3.8 pushrod V6.

[Calais6666]

Originally Posted by TriShield

If the Falcon ceases to be a large RWD car that could be a potential boon for Holden as they would be the only player left in the market.

I still can't see the Taurus faring well in Australia as a replacement for the Falcon though. The Mondeo with a V6, sure.

Sorry TriShield but I know, as stated earlier, that even Holden are happy to have Ford making the Falcon in Australia. They need them to ensure economies of scale for the component manufacturers. Commodore production couldn't support them alone.

I think Fords biggest mistake was not designing it for Left Hand drive when they had the opportunity. They cut themselves out of a lot of export potential and they regret it now. Who knows, the Falcon could even have been a replacement for the Police Vehicle, just like the Caprice is going to be now

[MonaroSS]

Originally Posted by ford&holden

I replied to what MonaroSS said, simple as that. Not my problem if he wants to be intentionally vague for impact.

I was not being vague for impact. I was merely responding to the information Ford itself has put out there and which people like wescoent have confirmed. Falcon has only about 5 years left in it and Ford have made it clear their ongoing policy will not support a unique platform for a single region like Australia.

That means that unlike VE which will be upgraded with lighter materials and tech improvements to get weight down and aero efficiency up etc, Ford will not be spending that kind of money on what is already an old platform and one that is to die out. Unless Mulally dies of a heart attack shortly there will be no future independent Falcon platform.

Wescoent has said it's unlikely to get shared with a Lincoln RWD platform as the NVH expectations are too different and like Holden could not share Sigma as it was too costly, sharing with Lincoln is out. So that means share with a cheaper US RWD and that leaves live axle happy Mustang customers. Or more likely is Falcon will share with Taurus. In any case the current Falcon platform is consigned to degrade and die by 2015 and that will be here real soon, and the degrading effects of not much being spent on it as it dies will show up earlier. Even sooner if sales keep falling....

This is why I suggested sharing with VE, which has a longer life expectancy.

Originally Posted by [URL="http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/44C127CA894B9295CA25760F001AB0A7"

goauto.com.au][/url]Ford Australia will not need to make any decisions until after the new four-cylinder EcoBoost engine is introduced in the Falcon in 2011.

“We would then typically be in a position when we would need to make a decision on powertrains, platform and technologies by the end of 2011,” Mr Burela said.

“So between now and then, we have a lot of time to work with our global product development team and also the local team here to ensure that we do the right thing.”

Ford Motor Company president Alan Mulally told GoAuto a year ago that next Falcon would share a platform with other large front-drive, rear-drive or all-wheel-drive Ford models in the US.

Originally Posted by [URL="http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2009/large-passenger/ford/falcon-fg/falcon-future-safe%e2%80%a6-for-now-15478"

carpoint.com.au[/url]]"The reality is we don't have to make any decision on rear-wheel drive, front-wheel drive, or all-wheel drive for the Falcon, in terms of its replacement, probably until around the end of 2011."

This timeline means the Falcon will likely soldier on in its current guise, albeit with cosmetic and mechanical updates, until late 2015.

[VS Ute 5Litre]

The Falcons platform is like the I6 itself

Grandpa's Axe

It's been modded over and over again and can trace it's roots all the way back to the 60's.

Pretty much in the same way all commodores from VB to VS were.

It's getting long in the tooth as is the I6 itself

It does the job for now but god only knows how much longer they can still get it to perform well and be emissions compliant for little $$$$