Toyota's Big Foot-The Great Jerry Flint

[56 Starchief]

Backseat Driver
Toyota's Big Foot
Jerry Flint 02.21.06, 3:00 PM ET


Toyota rolled out its new big pickup at the Chicago auto show the other week and the auto press went wild. From the stories, you would think The Black Death was about to strike Detroit and wipe out civilization as we know it.

Well, that isn't going to happen. This is Toyota's (nyse: TM - news - people ) third try at the big pickup market. The first, the 1993 T-100 was not big enough, lacked a V-8 and was far from a Toyota sales hit. The second try, today's Indiana-built Tundra, which went on sale in 1999 as a 2000 model, is a good truck, beloved by the Consumer Reports crowd, but still a bit small for mainstream America.

continued:http://www.forbes.com/columnists/200...0221flint.html

Originally Posted by 56 Starchief

Jerry Flint is possibly the U.S. auto industry's biggest friend in the press-anyone here that continues to lambast him is purely foolish.

[TuffG929]

Why isn't toyota's timing brought into question like GM and Ford? I figure it's because it's not an important addition to the toyota lineup. It will be fun to see what happens when the new sequia comes out.

I bet the Silverodo will kick the tundra's ass at the pumps.

[56 Starchief]

Originally Posted by TuffG929

Why isn't toyota's timing brought into question like GM and Ford?

I bet the Silverado will kick the tundra at the pumps.

Because we live in a world where somehow, Asian automakers and all of Asia is reserved with some kind of mystique in this country, and all things American are stupid and wasteful. Thats why I'm going into communications.

[Maas Oyama]

I didn't realise that toyota has already applied the full nelson to the small pick segment!

Small pickups are another story. Toyota is now the leader: 169,000 sales last year compared to 163,000 for GM and 121,000 for the Ford Ranger. How did that happen? The domestics came into the small pickup market years after the Japanese and then failed to keep their entries competitive. Ford, which had been the best seller, let the Ranger grow old. GM hurt itself by building its new pickup with an engine compartment so small that the biggest motor that fits is an inline five-cylinder; there is not enough room for a six.

Small pickups are just one of many markets where Detroit played it dumb and lost. Big pickups are one business that the domestics cannot afford to lose--and won't.

I didn't even realise that! Toyota's strategy has always followed a familiar pattern; launch an assault on the smaller vehicles in any given segment first, dominate that segment and then gradually move up the food chain!

Looks like this strategy is successful even in the pick up world! Can large pick up domination be far behind?

[tama z71]

Originally Posted by Maas Oyama

I didn't realise that toyota has already applied the full nelson to the small pick segment!

Small pickups are another story. Toyota is now the leader: 169,000 sales last year compared to 163,000 for GM and 121,000 for the Ford Ranger. How did that happen? The domestics came into the small pickup market years after the Japanese and then failed to keep their entries competitive. Ford, which had been the best seller, let the Ranger grow old. GM hurt itself by building its new pickup with an engine compartment so small that the biggest motor that fits is an inline five-cylinder; there is not enough room for a six.

Small pickups are just one of many markets where Detroit played it dumb and lost. Big pickups are one business that the domestics cannot afford to lose--and won't.

I didn't even realise that! Toyota's strategy has always followed a familiar pattern; launch an assault on the smaller vehicles in any given segment first, dominate that segment and then gradually move up the food chain!

Looks like this strategy is successful even in the pick up world! Can large pick up domination be far behind?

A full nelson lock? Yes, 6000 more units than second place is certainly a nelson lock.

You are a clown, and I would hope that GMi wouldnt continue to welcome people like you.

[56 Starchief]

Originally Posted by Maas Oyama

I didn't realise that toyota has already applied the full nelson to the small pick segment!

Small pickups are another story. Toyota is now the leader: 169,000 sales last year compared to 163,000 for GM and 121,000 for the Ford Ranger. How did that happen? The domestics came into the small pickup market years after the Japanese and then failed to keep their entries competitive. Ford, which had been the best seller, let the Ranger grow old. GM hurt itself by building its new pickup with an engine compartment so small that the biggest motor that fits is an inline five-cylinder; there is not enough room for a six.

Small pickups are just one of many markets where Detroit played it dumb and lost. Big pickups are one business that the domestics cannot afford to lose--and won't.

I didn't even realise that! Toyota's strategy has always followed a familiar pattern; launch an assault on the smaller vehicles in any given segment first, dominate that segment and then gradually move up the food chain!

Looks like this strategy is successful even in the pick up world! Can large pick up domination be far behind?

first of all, i dont understand your blind faith in toyota, much like anyone who has blind faith in anything, even GM. did you graduate pre-school?

that aside, uh, did you read the last sentence guy? theres a difference with what GM and Ford have done with the big truck segment than the cars. thats why they always will dominate, as TOYOTA HAS FAILED MISERABLY AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

[gmrebirth]

Originally Posted by TuffG929

Why isn't toyota's timing brought into question like GM and Ford? I figure it's because it's not an important addition to the toyota lineup. It will be fun to see what happens when the new sequia comes out.

I bet the Silverodo will kick the tundra's ass at the pumps.

What's funny is that at least for V6 versions, the Silverado gets beaten by the Tundra.

http://www.chevrolet.com/silverado/s...s/#fueleconomy
Silverado 1500 with Vortec 4300 V6 gets top mileage of 16/22 (2wd 5 speed manual). Lowest mileage is 15/18 (4x4 4 speed auto).

http://www.toyota.com/tundra/specs.html
Tundra with V6 gets top mileage of 18/22 (5 speed auto 2WD) and lowest mileage of 16/20 (5 speed manual 2wd).

The V6 Tundra can tow up to 5700 lbs, While the V6 Silverado can only tow up to 5100 pounds.

Things start to change with the V8 models. Top mileage of both Vortec 4800 and 5300 V8s is 16/21 for the 2wd auto. 4x4 mileage for both drops to 15/19.

The Tundra V8 gets 16/18 mileage for 2wd, and 15/18 for 4x4 models. Tundra V8 can tow up to 7100 pounds. Silverado with Vortec 5300 V8 can tow up to 9100 pounds. It can tow up to 10,400 pounds with Vortec Max 6000 V8, but that gets lower mileage than any Tundra.

[NemesiSupra]

They dont expect to sell a mil a year, but evey year, every generation the >sales< go UP...... up..... up ohh look Toyota is the segment leader.

[asim]

Originally Posted by NemesiSupra

They dont expect to sell a mil a year, but evey year, every generation the >sales< go UP...... up..... up ohh look Toyota is the segment leader.

He's right...every generation the sales have been going up, and the trucks have been getting more competitive every year...

[IMPALAon20s]

IMO toyotas mistake was trying to pass off previous tundra as a "full size", along with lack of power and choices.. and most important lame styling. even Terminator couldn't help toyotas truck image, that and domestic loyalty will be difficult for toyota to overcome no matter what it offers.

and yes, i'm very suprised domestics got such praise from ferry flint, its about time. but what a way to say detroits products in general are better now, without actually saying it.. "They don't have the quality problems that hurt domestic cars in the bad old days". word twisting at its best.

one last thing, not to get too off topic.. but most of us here would agree with him about the gm midsized trucks not offering a honest v6.. if he can see it, and we see it.. why doesn't gm? (pay attention lutz/wagoner)

[IMPALAon20s]

Originally Posted by asim

He's right...every generation the sales have been going up, and the trucks have been getting more competitive every year...

and so long as domestics keep up, and dare i say attempt to be step ahead, and don't give up one segment for another one.. way they did in the 90's.. that will avoid problems moving GOOD products, like they do now.

ugh, im still TO'd about b-body plant being given up to retool for trucks during the SUV boom. sorry, i had to vent.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by 56 Starchief

first of all, i dont understand your blind faith in toyota, much like anyone who has blind faith in anything, even GM. did you graduate pre-school?

that aside, uh, did you read the last sentence guy? theres a difference with what GM and Ford have done with the big truck segment than the cars. thats why they always will dominate, as TOYOTA HAS FAILED MISERABLY AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN

I don't think it's blind faith to carefully watch and, yes, even praise your comeptition's efforts. I think that that's the way in which you are able to keep ahead of them, actually.

I recall being quite irritated when Roger Smith poked fun at the then new Taurus: "Hah, it looks like melted chocolate!" Understandably, within a year, GM ceded control of the family sedan market to Ford. Ford then grew complacent to the relentless Japanese, and now we have a [retail] market dominated by Honda and Toyota. Nothing from Detroit comes close, and nothing on the horizon appears ready to tackle the Japanese in a two million-unit-plus market, either. That's pathetic.

I remember how people in the late 80's/early 90's made fun of the Asian luxury makes; who's gonna buy a $40,000 Toyota? Ha-ha-ha. Funny, all three Asian luxury makes had record sales last year. Acura's closing in on Cadillac, and we all know that Lexus was the only one to surpass 300,000 units in the US last year. I wonder who's laughing now. Lincoln, with its 123,207 units sold, can't even muster half of Lexus's sales. That's pretty weak.

I'd like to hear more appropriate praise for Toyota's efforts for no other reason than people finally not dismissing Toyota simply because they dislike the company. One clear reason why we know Detroit won't lose the sales crown to the Tundra is simply because Toyota lacks the production to do so. I wonder what the landscape will look like in a decade, though, particularly if people say Asia's success will never happen.

A little paranoia is a healthy thing.

[Mikkoo]

Originally Posted by IMPALAon20s

and so long as domestics keep up, and dare i say attempt to be step ahead, and don't give up one segment for another one.. way they did in the 90's.. that will avoid problems moving GOOD products, like they do now.

ugh, im still TO'd about b-body plant being given up to retool for trucks during the SUV boom. sorry, i had to vent.

I don't think that the domestics are going to give ground to Toyota. There
capable of staying one step ahead of them. It should be interesting when
the new Tundra goes up against the big full size domestic offerings in
a comparison test by the car magazines.

[elderon]

I just don't see the imports ever dominating the trucks. The big 2 1/2 finally wised up after loosing market share with their cars.

[johnny smallblock]

Originally Posted by Mikkoo

It should be interesting when the new Tundra goes up against the big full size domestic offerings in a comparison test by the car magazines.

I actually don't look forward to it. Seeing how they normally line-up on their hands and knees for Toyota, I expect much of the same with the big pick-ups.

BTW, the direct link to the article is below; it took me a while to find it on the site:
http://www.forbes.com/columnists/200...0221flint.html