Toyota Plug-In Hybrids

[Perian]

Link: http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/060718/toyota_press.html?.v=1

Tuesday July 18, 2:47 pm ET
By Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writer

Toyota's North America Chief Says Company Interested in Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Toyota Motor North America Inc. president Jim Press said Tuesday the Japanese automaker plans to pursue a plug-in hybrid vehicle, touting the long-term potential of gas-electric hybrids on America's highways.

"Make no mistake about it, hybrids are the technology of the future and they will play a starring role in the automotive industry in the 21st century," Press said in a speech at the National Press Club.

Press, highlighting the company's work on alternative vehicles, said Toyota is also "strongly considering" a program to develop flexible fuel vehicles in the United States capable of running on E85, an alternative fuel made of 85 percent ethanol.

Press, who recently became the first non-Japanese president of Toyota Motor Corp.'s U.S. subsidiary, said hybrid technology has long-term staying power because it can adapt to several alternatives, such as clean diesels, biodiesels, ethanol, plug-in hybrids or hydrogen fuel cells.

The plug-in being pursued by Toyota would be able to "travel greater distances without using its gas engine, it will conserve more oil and slice smog and greenhouse gases to nearly imperceptible levels."

Plug-in hybrids use larger battery packs that can be recharged through a typical 120-volt outlet, allowing a driver to travel locally on battery power before the vehicle switches to the gasoline engine. DaimlerChrysler has been developing a plug-in hybrid van.

President Bush has touted the potential of the technology but obstacles exist, ranging from making the batteries lighter, less expensive and more durable. Some observers have expressed concern about the ability of the electrical grid to support the vehicles, but supporters say most plug-ins would be recharged at night.

Full article at link.

[63GrandSport001]

The plug in hybrid sounds really good,but that electricity comes from somewhere and the likely source is coal, the second likely source is oil.

[kenman923]

Where do you plug it in? An electrical outlet? Something tells me look out for outrageous electric bills and possible overload problems.

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by 63GrandSport001

The plug in hybrid sounds really good,but that electricity comes from somewhere and the likely source is coal, the second likely source is oil.

BTZZZ-wrong answer. There are very, very few, possibly none, oil power plants in the United States. The second most likely source is natural gas, followed by nuclear and hydroelectric. Coal is common on the east coast, the other sources are more common on the west coast and middle of the country.

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by kenman923

Where do you plug it in? An electrical outlet? Something tells me look out for outrageous electric bills and possible overload problems.

Most of the time, they would be charged overnight (when there is excess power available). The power used would be a minimal load (but constant). Overloading would not be a problem.

In any case, such would be a voluntary thing. A plug in hybrid can never be plugged in, in which case it would act like a normal hybrid car.

The cost of the electricity would be less than the cost of gasoline to move the vehicle the same difference.

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

You what's funny about this, is the "plug in" seems to be some sort of Holy Grail. But as we all learned about the law of "Conservation of Energy":

From Wikipedia:
"Conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy (including potential energy) in a closed system remains constant. In other words, energy can be converted from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. In modern physics, all forms of energy exhibit mass and all mass is a form of energy."

Energy is niether created nor destroyed. So we will suddenly convert from oil to electric energy? Think of what that will do to the electrical grid. We'll just wind up building coal fired plants to support all that EXTRA electricity use.

It ain't free, folks. We'll pay for it somehow.

Funny. The ingorance is palpable.

AND,

Wikipedia:
"In physics, energy is the ability to do work and has many different forms (potential, kinetic, electromagnetic, etc.) No matter what its form, physical energy has the same units as work; a force applied through a distance. The SI unit of energy, the joule, equals one newton applied through one meter, for example."

So energy = work = force*distance. So the amount of energy to move the 2500lb hybrid 10 miles to work remains unchanged. We just convert from oil to electricity? Be prepared for outrageous electric bills, and more pollution from the electrical providers. Then we are back at square one. And then all the industrial users of electricity will pass that expense to consumers. Oh but wait, the "greenies" say we can't build any more power plants (1970 Clean Air Act, 'new source review'). What to do?

The ignorance is simply palpable.

[rickhunter1max]

It will a be a hybrid gas/elec regular 3 prong inlet. It will run on batteries 1st and when their out switch to gas at the same time charging the batteries. Just like GM said a month ago copycats.

[WishIhadatruck]

Currently it might be more cost effective to plug in your car since gas prices are up and electric rates have not climbed as fast. If we all start plugging in our cars it might do the opposite. At least it gives people the option of 2 different power sources so they can go with what is cheapest at the moment. If it is E85 capable then you can use E85, 100% gasoline, or run on electric as much as possible depending on what makes sense that week or year. I'm all for it.

[cincygoblue]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

You what's funny about this, is the "plug in" seems to be some sort of Holy Grail. But as we all learned about the law of "Conservation of Energy":

From Wikipedia:
"Conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy (including potential energy) in a closed system remains constant. In other words, energy can be converted from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. In modern physics, all forms of energy exhibit mass and all mass is a form of energy."

Energy is niether created nor destroyed. So we will suddenly convert from oil to electric energy?

Fortunately for us, the Earth is NOT a closed system. We can get energy from the Sun (solar power farms) and we aren't using all the energy currently WITHIN our "system". We can convert energy from falling water (hydro), blowing wind (windmills) and ocean wave energy into electricity. Plus, the mass you are talking about can be converted into energy (nuclear). All of these are nearly clean energy. Of course there are downsides to many of them (spoiled views, dead fish, radioactive solids), but I don't think this is all about ignorance. The auto companies want to make their products as environmentally neutral as possible, to take themselves out of the environmental debate. Then the pressure will be on the power companies. It would be ignorant to think that all of our energy (or even most) has to come from oil and coal. Plus, the production and transfer of electricity from coal and oil power plants is still more energy efficient and less polluting than transporting gasoline to the pumps, then to the car, and then converting that into power to drive a vehicle.

SO, going to electric cars (or semi-electric hybrids) is still a MUCH better proposition for many environmental reasons. Besides, the cost to operate a vehicle over a certain distance with an electrical motor system (energy to move the mass a certain distance) is still less expensive than to do so with gasoline. Someone else posted this site on a prior discussion . . .http://www.calcars.org/vehicles.html#cleaner
.
.

[JVal14]

Originally Posted by New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66

You what's funny about this, is the "plug in" seems to be some sort of Holy Grail. But as we all learned about the law of "Conservation of Energy":

From Wikipedia:
"Conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy (including potential energy) in a closed system remains constant. In other words, energy can be converted from one form to another, but it cannot be created or destroyed. In modern physics, all forms of energy exhibit mass and all mass is a form of energy."

Energy is niether created nor destroyed. So we will suddenly convert from oil to electric energy? Think of what that will do to the electrical grid. We'll just wind up building coal fired plants to support all that EXTRA electricity use.

It ain't free, folks. We'll pay for it somehow.

Funny. The ingorance is palpable.

AND,

Wikipedia:
"In physics, energy is the ability to do work and has many different forms (potential, kinetic, electromagnetic, etc.) No matter what its form, physical energy has the same units as work; a force applied through a distance. The SI unit of energy, the joule, equals one newton applied through one meter, for example."

So energy = work = force*distance. So the amount of energy to move the 2500lb hybrid 10 miles to work remains unchanged. We just convert from oil to electricity? Be prepared for outrageous electric bills, and more pollution from the electrical providers. Then we are back at square one. And then all the industrial users of electricity will pass that expense to consumers. Oh but wait, the "greenies" say we can't build any more power plants (1970 Clean Air Act, 'new source review'). What to do?

The ignorance is simply palpable.

I get what you mean, but some use of energy is more efficient than others. For example, an internal combustion engine wastes a great deal of it's stored energy in the form of heat; relatively little is transferred to kinetic (movement) energy.

That's not to say your wrong about the source of the electricity, but electric/plug-in hybrid cars are more efficient with the energy they have than with IC cars. So the additional pollution created to supply X number of electric cars with power may be less than the pollution created by the same number of IC cars.
IMHO, there won't be a substantial difference in pollution or energy prices until we get serious about creating efficient, renewable energy sources. The only way that will happen is if the general public wises up and demands it.

[Z28x]

Hydrogen/electric is the future.

Gas/electric is just a stop gap

[motorman]

none of these systems are to save you money,just to get away from overseas oil. the cost of operating a car has went up and it is going to stay there no matter what the power source. the day of cheap fuel for your car is OVER.

[jbernie]

There are many uses for the plug in hybrid, i'm sure if you could get some of the large suvs on a system like this the soccor moms could save gas driving their 2 tonne suv to the store and then later to the stylist or picking up the kids a mile away.

However, on the otherside, you would want to be careful with your outdoor outlets, don't steal a car, steal the electricity instead. I don't know what other places are like but here in colorado with the building boom that went there are outdoor outlets galore to power your car on.

Didn't Honda show off a consumer orientated device that would convert natural gas (that is piped to most homes) into hydrogen. That would be more desirable than electric cars.

[roteague]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

BTZZZ-wrong answer. There are very, very few, possibly none, oil power plants in the United States. The second most likely source is natural gas, followed by nuclear and hydroelectric. Coal is common on the east coast, the other sources are more common on the west coast and middle of the country.

Yes, there are oil power plants, we have several here in Hawaii. The last I heard, we are still part of the United States.

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Originally Posted by cincygoblue

Fortunately for us, the Earth is NOT a closed system..

Huh? The frickin' UNIVERSE is a closed system. True, we can convert solar energy to electrical energy using photovoltiac cells. And right now with the hybrids as they exist now, when the car is using the gasoline engine, the electric motors become generators to charges the batteries to then run the electric motors when shifted from gas power to electric. So energy is conserved there, when the gasoline engine charges the batteries. So there it is a closed system. True.