Toyota/Lexus caught spinnin' the Numbers

[Bigbee60]

Toyota will do the usual and have RL Polk do a "fake" study of how good their cars are. Look for it any day now on the NBA Finals ads "legendary Toyota bullcrap!!".

[doh]

Originally Posted by ZeroDrag

Tell me about it!
While I never worked for GM, I was a good customer. I bought a Chevy Corsica, Beretta and a Saturn SC2. I am not a loyal customer of any manufacturer because to me, they don't mean anything more than just a manufacturer.

Then comes GMI!! Holy lord. I have never seen anything like the blind, disgusting bashing of the Asian manufacturers that goes on here. I would understand if it only stayed like that - but no, there are rage against the Japanese, rage against the Koreans: all Asians!!

There is an overflow of American arrogance on this board. People here think anything "American" is AUTOMATICALLY the best by the virtue of it being an "American" product. So, anytime that's not the case in reality, people won't accept it. It is much more clear to me now why some people gives the middle finger salute to an owner of an Asian car, or even vandalizes the car, leaves notes like "shouldn't have bought an import" with misspelling.

Like I said before, I am not particularly fond of any manufacturer but whichever gets me the best value in combination with reliability/quality/service. The sad thing is after getting to know a bunch of American elitists here, I just don't feel like joining the group of American car buyers anymore (besides the only vehicle from GM appeals to me is the Acadia: well designed, well built, the twin projectors are just sweet).


AkSean, you bring up a good point, I think this practice is embedded in the American culture. Rather than worrying about why GM brands rank poorly, people try to find reasons to bash the brands that did well. Does anyone remember what Toyota spokesperson said after the Tundra got 4-star crash test rating? They didn't challenge the system, instead they said they were confident that it'd get 5-star, but there's obviously more work needed to be done. That's the kind of attitude is appreciated by me.

Good point on brand loyalaty.

We recently have been (at work) purchasing "lease return Honda Civics" for our used car lot. 2004 models, which we have to sell for about $1500 more than an 2005 Ford Focus (with 20000 kms less on it and an Automatic Tranny) which we also have.

They both drive very simular, but the Hondas draw more people onto our lot than the Focus. Why? I don't understand.

I always wrote off the Asians due to the early rusting problems, but they did make strong running gear, likeable looks, and very good NHV.

My Automotive shop teacher told me 20 some years ago that $200 more Nickle added to the smelting of the metal in every automobile would prevent rust all togeather. The manufacture that would step up and do that, would be the manufacture that got my $$$$'s

I don't mind changing a part here and a part there, but rust usually ends my vehicle's life for me.

Why don't either the Big 3 or the Asian's not do this today at say an extra $500, because it doesn't make for the 3-5 year trade cycles.

So as a truck person, I would drive mine forever and keep replacing my wife's every 3-5 years. But my 97 GMT 400 has cab corners starting to rot, but Toyo's frame rot concerns me as well. Niether have addressed my needs yet. Bricklin almost did in the 70's except they never made a truck.

So to all Manufactures, Give us a Vehicle that will run forever, with repairs and let the public decide if they want the "New and improved model"

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

OH NO!!!!

Well...I'll make an exception for this guy...

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by ZeroDrag

...Then comes GMI!! Holy lord. I have never seen anything like the blind, disgusting bashing of the Asian manufacturers that goes on here. I would understand if it only stayed like that - but no, there are rage against the Japanese, rage against the Koreans: all Asians!!...

You make some reasonable points, ZeroDrag, though I think your above statement calls for a bit of clarification.

Since I know that you are a balanced person, and you wouldn't commit the same error that you accuse GMI of by painting all 35,000+ members of one on-line community with the same brush, I know that you are aware that some-not all-people here commit the crime of "blind, disgusting bashing of Asian manufacturers." Just like there are those who visit this same site who commit an equal crime with Detroit as their intended victim.

Actually, it's in part the heterogeneity of opinion that makes many GMI members like me fans of this site. I know you can appreciate that.

[ZeroDrag]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

You make some reasonable points, ZeroDrag, though I think your above statement calls for a bit of clarification.

Since I know that you are a balanced person, and you wouldn't commit the same error that you accuse GMI of by painting all 35,000+ members of one on-line community with the same brush, I know that you are aware that some-not all-people here commit the crime of "blind, disgusting bashing of Asian manufacturers." Just like there are those who visit this same site who commit an equal crime with Detroit as their intended victim.

Actually, it's in part the heterogeneity of opinion that makes many GMI members like me fans of this site. I know you can appreciate that.

I never really said all of 35K members are doing it. I just said that stuff happens here. Unfortunately the ones that do all the bashing are the loudest bunch!!

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Bolex

rant all you guys want....the fact is toyota/lexus is being compared to a porsche in terms of quality. you really want the media to put these 2 brands in the same sentence explaining how quality is almost equal?

Oh yea, compared all right - as in Infiniti leaping ahead by 9 places to second ahead of Lexus - and Porsche "distancing" its self from both.

And is it not significant in regards to the Toyota branded product that virtually owned this award -if it wasn't a Lexus it was a Toyota - that there is exactly 'one' Toyota branded product on the list of firsts ?

Following in the rankings are Infiniti (which improves from 9th rank position in 2007), Lexus, Mercedes-Benz and Toyota, respectively. Audi posts the largest improvement in ranking, moving from 26th place in 2007 to 10th in 2008.

“Porsche continues its steady improvement and has succeeded in distancing itself from the second-ranked nameplate to a greater degree in 2008—by a gap of 11 PP100—compared with 3 PP100 in 2007,” said Sargent.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by ZeroDrag

Uhh, 7:18am (my time) and you've already started your Toyota bashing.

Well, if there is a more convenient time for my postings on your schedule just tell me, and I'll give it the consideration it deserves.

Bashing ???? , well to each his own, its really just counter spin .

Some of us are just tired of Toyotas basically pornograghic, craven and increasingly desperate bending, folding, and mutulation of things like truth, reality and perception - which ends up hurting GM and its interested parties unneccessarily.

You can complain all you want - its pretty obvious - for all to see what Toyotas doing here - its worse than cheap and really shows you how they think.

Since this concerns Lexus, lets also observe the other that matters here

" No Class "

Keep going, we need to get up all the headlines and their observations on this years IQS awards.

Want to refute all the above ?

Find one other example of another OEM attempting to be so misleading with a useless and morally bankrupt technicality - with something like this.


This is but one example of why Lexus doesn't rate with certain high end Euro buyers - the spin - and cheapness of it at that.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by ZeroDrag

Uhh, 7:18am (my time) and you've already started your Toyota bashing.

Porsche 911 is not a segment winner but the Lexus LS is, and LS DOES have the lowest PP100 among all segment winners. You need to learn how to read first before you come to a conclusion.

Also, AMERICA 123, you should seek professional help!! You are obsessed with Toyota.
Like another member said, all you are doing is giving Toyota free press.

LOL..He's the only one on the entire site that I have on ignore but it's really really weird to open a thread and see one post and 4 'ignore' followups, in a row.