Toyota leaves Ford behind in global race

**Ming** · 07-20-2004, 05:32 PM

Toyota leaves Ford behind in global race
Financial Times
James Mackintosh and David Ibison
July 20 2004

Toyota Motor, the world's second-largest carmaker, is set to increase its lead over Ford Motor after boosting its sales forecast for this year as its American rival reported a loss in its automotive operations.

Toyota passed Ford in sales last year and said it expected this year's sales to hit 7.39m vehicles, up 9 per cent and 4 per cent above its earlier estimate. It is expected to remain the world's most profitable carmaker after making a net profit last year of more than twice that of its nearest competitor.

The success of Toyota - alongside smaller Japanese carmakers Honda and Nissan - has been an important factor behind the problems at Ford, as well as those at General Motors, the biggest producer, which reports second quarter results on Wednesday.

Japanese manufacturers have been able to steal market share from the American producers in their home market, recently starting to compete against US pick-up trucks and large offroaders, the most profitable vehicles. Toyota is also rapidly gaining share in Europe and is building new factories there as well as in China and the US.

On Tuesday the scale of the problem facing US carmakers was underlined when Ford slipped back into loss in its automotive business, although record financial services profits helped it beat its own forecasts for the second quarter.

Don Leclair, chief financial officer, said the company had deliberately sacrificed north American market share by reducing the least profitable sales.

Toyota is aiming to take 15 per cent of the world car market in the next decade, almost exactly on a par with GM.

FULL Story Here

xellow · 07-20-2004, 05:54 PM

That Toyota is doing some amazing things in business, I have to admit.

This news hits me in a tender spot. I don't like to hear this.

However I do believe Toyota deserves this success. So good for them & Shame on Ford and GM for slacking off and opening this door for Toyota.

I wonder; How much further can Toyota really go? # 1? They have got my attention, thats for sure.

svx92 · 07-20-2004, 06:22 PM

Toyota deserve credit for their accomplishments...I think it all goes back to WWll In rebuilding after the war, the japanese learned to be the best in their market. Quality was the driving force. In the US, there was so much pent up demand for products since the ecnomy had focused on war machines that quantity was the name of the game. quality and reliability were not in the mindset.

The domestic companies have made great strides on quality, but there is still the issue of perception to overcome. I had a sebring sedan as a loaner car last week, what a horrible product. DCX should run--not walk away from their union with Mitsubishi. And I have friend that just got a toureg a couple of months ago. The sunroof leaks and CD player doesn't work. Yet VW has still manages to eek out a reputation for quality--is it the tactile touch and feel of the high grade materials, the narrow allowance for body gaps?

Toyota has market share and profitability. Asit's brands mature, it'll be interesting to see if Scion is successful.

The Oatman · 07-20-2004, 06:34 PM

You know what they are laughing at? The fact that the American companies let them have it so easily by screwing up so consistently.

mbukukanyau · 07-20-2004, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ming@Jul 20 2004, 09:32 PM
Toyota leaves Ford behind in global race
Financial Times
James Mackintosh and David Ibison
July 20 2004

Toyota Motor, the world's second-largest carmaker, is set to increase its lead over Ford Motor after boosting its sales forecast for this year as its American rival reported a loss in its automotive operations.

Toyota passed Ford in sales last year and said it expected this year's sales to hit 7.39m vehicles, up 9 per cent and 4 per cent above its earlier estimate. It is expected to remain the world's most profitable carmaker after making a net profit last year of more than twice that of its nearest competitor.

The success of Toyota - alongside smaller Japanese carmakers Honda and Nissan - has been an important factor behind the problems at Ford, as well as those at General Motors, the biggest producer, which reports second quarter results on Wednesday.

Japanese manufacturers have been able to steal market share from the American producers in their home market, recently starting to compete against US pick-up trucks and large offroaders, the most profitable vehicles. Toyota is also rapidly gaining share in Europe and is building new factories there as well as in China and the US.

On Tuesday the scale of the problem facing US carmakers was underlined when Ford slipped back into loss in its automotive business, although record financial services profits helped it beat its own forecasts for the second quarter.

Don Leclair, chief financial officer, said the company had deliberately sacrificed north American market share by reducing the least profitable sales.

Toyota is aiming to take 15 per cent of the world car market in the next decade, almost exactly on a par with GM.

FULL Story Here

When I look at a trailblazer aganist a 4 Runner, i cant help but see whey GM should be # 10 in sales. The Trail Blazer sucks, generally speaking

AJR · 07-20-2004, 07:04 PM

Well, this isn't good news. I hate to see Ford continue its sales slide. Still, Toyota has earned the good praise. It is a properly run business.

And, in a few years, Toyota could join the Big 3 in the U.S. market - GM, Ford, and Toyota. That wouldn't bother me any, just as long as Ford and GM get their act together.

AJR · 07-20-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by xellow@Jul 20 2004, 09:54 PM
That Toyota is doing some amazing things in business, I have to admit.

This news hits me in a tender spot. I don't like to hear this.

However I do believe Toyota deserves this success. So good for them & Shame on Ford and GM for slacking off and opening this door for Toyota.

I wonder; How much further can Toyota really go? # 1? They have got my attention, thats for sure.

Yeah, I agree. Toyota has had my attention for some time. I don't mind pushing for a company that consistantly does good things. I just wish Ford would start going in the up direction.

jaorobot · 07-20-2004, 07:12 PM

Toyota and GM will eventually slug it out for #1, but I dont see any reason why Toyota wont be #1 eventually if not for good.

GM needs to get its act together in Europe, batton down the hatches for 25% in America (but more profitable!) and continue to make strides in China.

Eventually partnership with a larger Japanese automative would help alot, too..

ByTheLake · 07-20-2004, 07:32 PM

The truth is that if Toyota maintains its current pace, it will be the largest auto manufacturer in the world within a decade. That's not debatable, that's the current trend. It's not a mystery to me ... I have owned two Toyotas and each was a great car.

Toyota simply gets the job done.

Lots of people are wondering whether Scion will succeed. Toyota doesn't make many marketing mistakes, especially when the investment is significant. Let's look at Scion's numbers in the first half of 2004:

8,168 sold in North America, all without canibalizing parent Toyota's sales. The reviews are decent, too. To put this another way, Scion has outpaced the following makes so far in 2004 (North America sales):
Suzuki, Audi, Jaguar, and Saab, among others. It did that with only two vehicles, since the tC is only a recent addition. 8,168 vehicles isn't much yet, but Toyota has easily added a new brand to this supposedly saturated market.

sheithappens · 07-20-2004, 07:48 PM

I'm surprised the domestic 3 even bother making cars anymore. Their profits are made in the financing department anyway. GM for example makes tons of money on home mortgages. But cars? Nope. They barely make a profit on them. Toyota on the other hand rakes in the cash by producing cars.

amark329 · 07-20-2004, 09:08 PM

That is good news for Toyota. The article said they were now the #2 automaker. GM is still #1 right? :huh:

banzai79 · 07-20-2004, 09:20 PM

Great...the world's biggest purveyor of automotive boredom is successful, and everybody is ok with that? When you're all driving your Toyota Box-on-Wheels in the next decade, I'll be cutting you off in my Corvette.

ByTheLake · 07-20-2004, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by banzai79@Jul 20 2004, 09:20 PM
Great...the world's biggest purveyor of automotive boredom is successful, and everybody is ok with that? When you're all driving your Toyota Box-on-Wheels in the next decade, I'll be cutting you off in my Corvette.

I'm not sure everybody is okay with Toyota's success, but its success is undeniable.

I agree that its styles tend to be boring, but the styles tend to be innoffensive, too. No Azteks.

One thing that GM is just figuring out is that there is a difference between 'quality' and 'perceived quality'. For example, if a windshield wiper switch never fails, it will contribute to a good 'defects per vehicle' score ... but if that switch feels like crap with sharp edges and has lots of slack when moved, it won't 'feel' like quality. In every Toyota I've owned, it just felt good to use, from the radio to the switches.

Also, people like the way a Toyota retains value. Hard to blame them.

idontcareican · 07-20-2004, 10:24 PM

Supra! Supra! Supra! Supra! Why cant Toyota make a decent performance machine anymore? They should just dust off the old designs, tool up and make the Supra again if they have all that money. Who cares if people buy it or not. When I think Toyota, I think Camry and Corolla. That just sucks. After killing the MR2 and the Celica, it seems Toyota is dedicated to no nonsense transportaion for peons. Enter Scion. Its sad when the greatest thing Toyota has going is a Scion tc with a supercharger, but then again it makes more sense than that Celica ever did.

dindak · 07-20-2004, 10:26 PM

I still don't see anything exciting or attractive about Toyotas or Lexus. Ugly or dull is all I see aside from the MR2 and Celica which have been canned. Honda has much better vehicles IMO and they are struggling a bit now. I don't get it..

GM better get busy or they will loose number one some day. Who would have thought Ford could fall to #3.

07-20-2004, 05:32 PM	#1 (permalink)
Ming GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: SE Texas Posts: 13,414	Toyota leaves Ford behind in global race Financial Times James Mackintosh and David Ibison July 20 2004 Toyota Motor, the world's second-largest carmaker, is set to increase its lead over Ford Motor after boosting its sales forecast for this year as its American rival reported a loss in its automotive operations. Toyota passed Ford in sales last year and said it expected this year's sales to hit 7.39m vehicles, up 9 per cent and 4 per cent above its earlier estimate. It is expected to remain the world's most profitable carmaker after making a net profit last year of more than twice that of its nearest competitor. The success of Toyota - alongside smaller Japanese carmakers Honda and Nissan - has been an important factor behind the problems at Ford, as well as those at General Motors, the biggest producer, which reports second quarter results on Wednesday. Japanese manufacturers have been able to steal market share from the American producers in their home market, recently starting to compete against US pick-up trucks and large offroaders, the most profitable vehicles. Toyota is also rapidly gaining share in Europe and is building new factories there as well as in China and the US. On Tuesday the scale of the problem facing US carmakers was underlined when Ford slipped back into loss in its automotive business, although record financial services profits helped it beat its own forecasts for the second quarter. Don Leclair, chief financial officer, said the company had deliberately sacrificed north American market share by reducing the least profitable sales. Toyota is aiming to take 15 per cent of the world car market in the next decade, almost exactly on a par with GM. FULL Story Here __________________ The Latest: Necromancer A Web Browser for the Commodore 64?

07-20-2004, 09:08 PM	#11 (permalink)
amark329 3.9 Liter V6 Join Date: May 2004 Location: Maine Posts: 918	That is good news for Toyota. The article said they were now the #2 automaker. GM is still #1 right? :huh: __________________

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07-20-2004, 05:54 PM	#2 (permalink)
xellow Banned Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Either Mc Donalds or Computer Posts: 327	That Toyota is doing some amazing things in business, I have to admit. This news hits me in a tender spot. I don't like to hear this. However I do believe Toyota deserves this success. So good for them & Shame on Ford and GM for slacking off and opening this door for Toyota. I wonder; How much further can Toyota really go? # 1? They have got my attention, thats for sure.

07-20-2004, 06:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
svx92 2.0 Liter Supercharged ECOTEC Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 156	Toyota deserve credit for their accomplishments...I think it all goes back to WWll In rebuilding after the war, the japanese learned to be the best in their market. Quality was the driving force. In the US, there was so much pent up demand for products since the ecnomy had focused on war machines that quantity was the name of the game. quality and reliability were not in the mindset. The domestic companies have made great strides on quality, but there is still the issue of perception to overcome. I had a sebring sedan as a loaner car last week, what a horrible product. DCX should run--not walk away from their union with Mitsubishi. And I have friend that just got a toureg a couple of months ago. The sunroof leaks and CD player doesn't work. Yet VW has still manages to eek out a reputation for quality--is it the tactile touch and feel of the high grade materials, the narrow allowance for body gaps? Toyota has market share and profitability. Asit's brands mature, it'll be interesting to see if Scion is successful.

07-20-2004, 06:34 PM	#4 (permalink)
The Oatman 2.0 Liter Supercharged ECOTEC Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 135	You know what they are laughing at? The fact that the American companies let them have it so easily by screwing up so consistently.

07-20-2004, 07:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
AJR 3.6 Liter V6 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 1,210	Well, this isn't good news. I hate to see Ford continue its sales slide. Still, Toyota has earned the good praise. It is a properly run business. And, in a few years, Toyota could join the Big 3 in the U.S. market - GM, Ford, and Toyota. That wouldn't bother me any, just as long as Ford and GM get their act together.

07-20-2004, 07:12 PM	#8 (permalink)
jaorobot 2.2 Liter ECOTEC Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 89	Toyota and GM will eventually slug it out for #1, but I dont see any reason why Toyota wont be #1 eventually if not for good. GM needs to get its act together in Europe, batton down the hatches for 25% in America (but more profitable!) and continue to make strides in China. Eventually partnership with a larger Japanese automative would help alot, too..

07-20-2004, 07:32 PM	#9 (permalink)
ByTheLake 6.2 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Traverse City, MI Drives: '04 Corvette, '08 CTS Posts: 2,698	The truth is that if Toyota maintains its current pace, it will be the largest auto manufacturer in the world within a decade. That's not debatable, that's the current trend. It's not a mystery to me ... I have owned two Toyotas and each was a great car. Toyota simply gets the job done. Lots of people are wondering whether Scion will succeed. Toyota doesn't make many marketing mistakes, especially when the investment is significant. Let's look at Scion's numbers in the first half of 2004: 8,168 sold in North America, all without canibalizing parent Toyota's sales. The reviews are decent, too. To put this another way, Scion has outpaced the following makes so far in 2004 (North America sales): Suzuki, Audi, Jaguar, and Saab, among others. It did that with only two vehicles, since the tC is only a recent addition. 8,168 vehicles isn't much yet, but Toyota has easily added a new brand to this supposedly saturated market.

07-20-2004, 07:48 PM	#10 (permalink)
sheithappens 2.0 Liter Supercharged ECOTEC Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 162	I'm surprised the domestic 3 even bother making cars anymore. Their profits are made in the financing department anyway. GM for example makes tons of money on home mortgages. But cars? Nope. They barely make a profit on them. Toyota on the other hand rakes in the cash by producing cars.

07-20-2004, 09:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
banzai79 3.9 Liter V6 Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 782	Great...the world's biggest purveyor of automotive boredom is successful, and everybody is ok with that? When you're all driving your Toyota Box-on-Wheels in the next decade, I'll be cutting you off in my Corvette.

07-20-2004, 10:24 PM	#14 (permalink)
idontcareican 3.9 Liter V6 Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 784	Supra! Supra! Supra! Supra! Why cant Toyota make a decent performance machine anymore? They should just dust off the old designs, tool up and make the Supra again if they have all that money. Who cares if people buy it or not. When I think Toyota, I think Camry and Corolla. That just sucks. After killing the MR2 and the Celica, it seems Toyota is dedicated to no nonsense transportaion for peons. Enter Scion. Its sad when the greatest thing Toyota has going is a Scion tc with a supercharger, but then again it makes more sense than that Celica ever did.

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07-20-2004, 10:26 PM	#15 (permalink)
dindak 4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Toronto area Posts: 2,177	I still don't see anything exciting or attractive about Toyotas or Lexus. Ugly or dull is all I see aside from the MR2 and Celica which have been canned. Honda has much better vehicles IMO and they are struggling a bit now. I don't get it.. GM better get busy or they will loose number one some day. Who would have thought Ford could fall to #3.