Toyota execs deny cover-up after feds rebuke automaker over runaway car investigation

[ZvetteGuy]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

This is a thread about Toyota. Did you think that only viewers with one perspective would post in it. There are no private threads on GMI, it's a public forum. Mature people can discuss subjects with differing points of view without getting upset. Name-calling is a mark of immaturity.

Again this is a thread about Toyota. Why wouldn't you expect there to be different views, pro and con?

Nicely said...

With that, I will say that it is sure nice to see that recalls affect every manufacturer... Toyoota has been getting their fair share of it recently.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by plane

If that's typical of your posts to come, please do not post in my threads.
Your proven lack of reading comprehension, your tendency to insult others, and your willingness to distort what is plainly written in the article are clearly inappropriate.

Thanks. You're awesome.

And you typically don't offer up anything more than tired old sarcasm, so check yourself.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

...Mature people can discuss subjects with differing points of view without getting upset. Name-calling is a mark of immaturity.

Again this is a thread about Toyota. Why wouldn't you expect there to be different views, pro and con?

I don't always agree with you, PhishPhood, but I sure do appreciate the even nature of your posts!

Originally Posted by Beau

And you typically don't offer up anything more than tired old sarcasm, so check yourself.

It's kinda of disappointing that when pressed to debate a topic, and if you happen to be on the opposing side, plane's usually articulate, thoughtful posts regress to twaddle. I know that that appeals to the children here, and I know that others on this site are not capable of debate, but I'd like to think he is, so it makes it that much more disappointing.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Dana_15

^^Nice comeback, so you admit you are wrong, again. Come back with some facts to backup your BS claims.

Don't be a douche. Plane has been a great contributor to this site and from what I can remember from a lot of your previous posts, his claims aren't BS. I hate when certain members join and all they have to provide is negativity. I could go on but you are not worth my time. Good Day!!

[marinerbc]

Looks to me like Toyota's spin doctoring was done at 78 when the record album the NHTSA was looking at was a 33 1/3.

Trouble is, you CAN indeed fool most of the people most of the time, and the gang in Nagoya are absolute masters at it, having fooled North American governments for 40 years plus now.

Nothing will come of this, except for a finding that the people killed were somehow at fault for punching the gas, instead of the brakes; this is no Audi case, where the manufacturer was hit hard by the public (even though Audi was found NOT to be liable in any way ....and were a target of a 60 Minutes witch hunt), and Toyota will escape this with reputation untarnished.

The public that does not care about cars will ensure that, and life will go on as it was before these folks died.

IMO.

[neshapop]

Toyota sucks, what's new here?

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Hunid Racks

Wrong again.

If this is a matter of the amount of clearance between the floor and the pedal they have two choices and ONLY two choices. Take a big hammer and beat the crap out of the floor to make more clearance or install a pedal with more clearance. Removing floormats isn't going to cure a pedal fouled by debris or other anything else a customer may track into a car.

But the problem isn't a given that it is clearance.

You're right clearance isn't the issue. If you take the time to do so as I've done you'll see that you can slide your foot between the pedal and the floormat whether it's a Toyota or a GM or a Chrysler. I've done it on several vehicles to prove it to myself.

The problem is that when the pedal is fully forward extra junk in the footwell can block the pedal from coming back up and turning down the throttle. But that can happen in any vehicle. I've used the exagerated example of a cinder block. But if you put the Toyota All Weather mats in a Malibu on top of the carpet mats then slide the AWMs all the way forward.....same problem. The pedal gets stuck in WOT position.

I wouldn't give Toyota the credit for telling the whole story, why should anybody else? They've already gotten themselves into the ringer for trying to mess with NHTSA, they're on a roll.

The real story will come out when the various agencies finish their investigations. I'll bet that it's the mats and some dope at Toyota jumped the gun with the conclusion without having the full story.

Can this be a problem with software or infiltration into the vehicle's wiring harness? Anybody that says it is not is wrong. Of course any admission on their part would open them to ungodly amounts of liability. Better try every single desperate measure to avoid responsibility.

Of course if I was trying to sell these cars with this stigma attached to them I too would be spreading every possible line of bull to move this crap out the door.

There's no indication of this at all, only your speculation. It's understandable why you'd speculate like this given your hatred for Toyota so your comments are noted and understood. Don't hold your breath tho.

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by Suziebob

So I have a question.

Why is the media barely picking up on this? Whenever the Ford rollover crap was going on, it was like mentioned on national news programs every night. There were "in depth" segments showing in shocking detail how you and your little cookie cutter suburban family would be brutally killed for absolutely no reason in a completely random fashion, if you bought a Ford.

There's a few articles on the internet about this, but the national news programs are, from what I've seen, not even touching this beyond maybe reporting on it once.

The only way to convince the brain dead sheep among us who still support Toyota is to put this everywhere, and if we can't count on the media to be "fair and balanced," then we might as well forget about it.

But you know, when the same interests who benefit from Toyota manufacturing in the US control much of the national media, what do you expect?

Well, one, ABC News has a whole website about this, so that counters some of your statements.

And, two, over 100 deaths were attributed to Firestone-tire-blowout-induced-Explorer rollovers. Toyota's at 16 deaths. All a tragedy, but I guess not yet enough for congressional hearings.

[plane]

Originally Posted by Beau

And you typically don't offer up anything more than tired old sarcasm, so check yourself.

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

It's kinda of disappointing that when pressed to debate a topic, and if you happen to be on the opposing side, plane's usually articulate, thoughtful posts regress to twaddle. I know that that appeals to the children here, and I know that others on this site are not capable of debate, but I'd like to think he is, so it makes it that much more disappointing.

Come on guys, knock it off.
You're making me blush.

[hiluxxulih]

Toyota could do what I did to my Dads old 70s Dodge pickup , I had to tie a rope around the clutch pedal up to the steering column because the clutch wouldn't come back up on its own , shifting steering and pulling the rope after I released the clutch pedal was a chore but Toyota drives should be able to handle it , we only drove it around there property though .

[Hunid Racks]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

There's no indication of this at all, only your speculation. It's understandable why you'd speculate like this given your hatred for Toyota so your comments are noted and understood. Don't hold your breath tho.

Wait a minute, YOU have declared that YOU know the problem and YOU have the remedy.

You want so badly to blame floormats, exactly where has it been indisputably been determined that every single one of these incidents has been in Toyotas with the floormats you are blaming? The key car in this issue was a loaner Lexus in California. The dealer doubled up floormats? The dealer put after market mats in the loaner fleet? The dealer lent out a car with crap in the flootwell? That's absurd. You don't want to address that stuff, just cover your ass.

No wonder NHTSA is so pissed at Toyota. Their attitude carries over.

[Beau]

In any event, the topic still withstanding...
I honestly find it appalling that Toyota would have the gall to blame deaths on people not able to keep their foot off the accelerator. Yes that does happen.

Of course.

But why aren't there 2,000 sudden acceleration complaints against GM, aren't those automotive operators also a cross section of your typical driver and thus being just as prone to mistaken the accelerator for the brake?

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Dana_15

I agree, if there actually is a problem you would think they would want to get to the bottom of it....guess not.

Absolutely for certain they would.

In fact, maybe they already have - or 'thought' they had....... but either way, that's not the only question they have to consider if true, is it.

"How to share" that kind of information comes to mind right at the gitgo.

Think about it.

Technically speaking, all they must accomplish to avoid the larger part of their potential Legal System 'problem' is to reduce their incidents rates below the NHTSA unacceptable / acceptable threshold.

Yep, an OEM can have a known problem / defect - at an 'acceptable' rate and avoid thereby avoid all kinds of things including an NHTSA originated Involuntary Recall effort...... everything except a well run class action lawsuit and the oddball well run individual suit.

Definitely cheaper all around and in all ways although it would still be costly.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Hunid Racks

Wait a minute, YOU have declared that YOU know the problem and YOU have the remedy.

You want so badly to blame floormats, exactly where has it been indisputably been determined that every single one of these incidents has been in Toyotas with the floormats you are blaming? The key car in this issue was a loaner Lexus in California. The dealer doubled up floormats? The dealer put after market mats in the loaner fleet? The dealer lent out a car with crap in the flootwell? That's absurd. You don't want to address that stuff, just cover your ass.

No wonder NHTSA is so pissed at Toyota. Their attitude carries over.

I stated it several times in these three threads. In none of the other alleged complaints of unintended acceleration ( not sudden acceleration, that's different ) no complaintant has been able to present any facts whatsoever with any data that supports their claims. In every case going back to the prior recall in 2007 the NHTSA has found that it's the mats.

In some cases there were crashes and even some deaths. A guy in NoCal said that he drove 20 miles out of control before he crashed into another car and killed an occupant. He said the car wouldn't let him stop!!!! The officers cited him. 20 miles!!!!

In these cases there are crash investigators and insurance companies involved paying massive amounts of money to injured people not to mention deaths like that one. Do you hear of any insurance companies saying one world about this? Nope.

Do you see any data on any of these alleged 2000 cases in the NHTSA files? Nope.

Do you hear of any disgruntled ex-Toyota employees or dealership employees blowing the whistle here? Nope.

Why? Because in fact there is no actual data or evidence that anything other than the All Weather mats or driver error or outright lies are occuring. There is not a shred of data showing that it's anything else than these AWMs - when they're present. Only in your dark hate-filled mind is there a different cause. Well if there is show it. In that case I will gladly eat every one of these words.

Watch when this story is over, the NHTSA will put the cause on the mats which didn't belong in the vehicle in the first place and which were installed incorrectly. It will also say that other factors were present which could have help solve the problem once it occured. This tragedy would never have occured if the dealer didn't screw up and put the AWMs in where they didn't belong.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by Beau

In any event, the topic still withstanding...
I honestly find it appalling that Toyota would have the gall to blame deaths on people not able to keep their foot off the accelerator. Yes that does happen.

Of course.

But why aren't there 2,000 sudden acceleration complaints against GM, aren't those automotive operators also a cross section of your typical driver and thus being just as prone to mistaken the accelerator for the brake?

Careful what you wish for. With the traction that this event is getting the unscrupulous will be looking for any inviting target...such as a newly healthy GM making big bucks in profits.
Honda has these claims. http://www.complaints.com/august2002...august17.1.htm
Ford's had these claims for 25 years. http://www.injurylawyer.com/default....n_acceleration
Nissan has had these claims. http://autorepair.about.com/library/faqs/bl757f.htm

Then there are 'other' causes...http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...24/1986678.htm