Toyota Corolla, Matrix, and Camry losin' their A.p.p.e.a.l.

[AMERICA 123]

And this reads well the same way.

Top half of the same Press release.

AutoPacific Announces 2008 Ideal Vehicle Awards

Porsche Top Premium Brand, Ford Top Mainstream Brand, Mercedes-Benz S-Class
Top Vehicle, Lincoln Navigator Top Truck

TUSTIN, Calif., June 30 /PRNewswire/ -- An "ideal" is defined as an
excellent or perfect example.

In the annual Ideal Vehicle Awards (IVA),
announced today by automotive research and consulting firm AutoPacific,
owners rate their new 2008 model year cars and trucks by how closely they
come to their ideal, as measured by 15 key vehicle attributes.

The cars or
trucks that owners would change the least are the most ideal.

The conclusion to be drawn from AutoPacific's IVA results is that
carmakers that best understand their customers create the vehicles that are
ideal for their core buyers.

There are twenty-eight segment winners and overall winners for premium
brands and mainstream brands.

The top-rated premium brand overall is Porsche, out-scoring Jaguar and
Buick for the most ideal premium vehicle brand honors.

The top-rated
mainstream brand is Ford, out-scoring GMC for top mainstream brand results.

The top-rated vehicle (and top-rated car) is the Mercedes-Benz S-Class,
a Premium Luxury Car.

The second and third top-rated cars are from Ford
Motor Company -- the Mercury Sable and the Ford Taurus, both in the Large
Car category.

The top-rated truck is the Lincoln Navigator, a Premium
Luxury SUV, closely followed by the Ford Taurus X, a Large Crossover SUV,
and the Ford Expedition EL, a Large SUV.

Ford Motor Company leads the industry with a total of fifteen segment
winners (including three for Volvo).

General Motors has six segment
winners.

Ford won no less than five sport utility vehicle categories with
Expedition EL, Taurus X, Edge, Escape, and Lincoln Navigator.

Including eight ties, of the twenty-eight Ideal Vehicle Award (IVA)
categories, American brands have twenty segment winners, European brands
have nine, Japanese brands have six and Korean brands have two winners.

The top-rated product segment is Large Crossover SUV, confirming that
Americans continue to value large, comfortable vehicles suitable for
suburban driving and longer distance highway cruising, but without the fuel
consumption of heavier, traditional SUVs.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by BGH

Look at your previous post, you say Toyota can't compete with Hyundai without reducing quality. That tells me they have lost that competitive advantage. They used to make excellent quality cars that where very competitive in terms of pricing now your saying that can't do that.

And its not like Toyota prices have gone down. They have in fact been rising and are still a few thousand dollars more expensive than anything from Korea. And if you haven't noticed Hyundai has been trying to get rid of its cheap image and bring up the prestige of the brand.

What your saying contradicts the recent actions of both companies. And their near term marketing plans for their new products.

Careful on the interpretation. I didn't say that Toyota was reducing quality to compete with Hyundai. In fact in both the Camry and the Corolla they've added content in the way of safey features, size and fuel economy but they have minimized the use of superior materials in the interiors. This is not reducing quality. That's matching the product to the expectations and needs of the buyers. If the buyers want more safety features, same reliability, top fuel economy and a down low price something has to give.

It's also a means to keep costs down in order to stay in line with Hyundai which is the strongest competitor ( financially ) in the every-day transportation field. Toyota along with HOnda and Nissan for 15 yrs has had a hold on the midsized/compact market. It's been the basis of their success. Now Hyundai is on the scene with two good products that have to be addressed. Both are among the least expensive offerings in both segments. It appears to me that Honda and Nissan and Mazda have opted to get larger and more upscale which leaves the basic transport field wide open to Hyundai. Toyota has declined to abdicate this high volume subsegment and is fighting Hyundai for it.

That however doesn't mean that upscale vehicles are being ignored. Honda now is selling more V6s than it ever did. That puts it more in competition with the Fusion and the Malibu. Toyota and Hyundai are selling some V6s but both it appears are concentrating mostly on the I4s.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

And this reads well the same way.

Top half of the same Press release.

Here is the sure fire way to know the Ideal winner process is flawed:
"Ford won no less than five sport utility vehicle categories with
Expedition EL, Taurus X, Edge, Escape, and Lincoln Navigator". Only one of these is any good (compared to the competition).......and "Taurus X" is a retarded name for it.

Ok now I have another BIG problem with Ideal:
- Mid-Size Crossover SUV Ford Escape
- Compact Crossover SUV Subaru Forester

Forester is/has:
- longer by 4.8 inches (and only 1" narrower),
- more ground clearance
- more front headroom
- more front legroom
- more rear headroom
- more rear legroom

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Ahhhh, we have more good news - for the Domestic three - and the Europeans and more bad news for Toyota concerning "appeal'.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...4840826&EDATE=

Well look at that.

Not one Scion.

Not one Lexus.

One Toyota.

Dude, I am beginning to question your intellect. There are 2 Toyotas. 4-Runner and Sienna. Not that I even care, but looked at the list in a glance, and saw 2.

[AMERICA 123]

OK, i'll correct the count for Toyota from one to two - and then we can all laugh about that.

I've been doing so much of that lately concerning Toyota that I've dirtied up my screen - which with my visual acuity is 'not good'.

[BGH]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Careful on the interpretation. I didn't say that Toyota was reducing quality to compete with Hyundai. In fact in both the Camry and the Corolla they've added content in the way of safey features, size and fuel economy but they have minimized the use of superior materials in the interiors. This is not reducing quality. That's matching the product to the expectations and needs of the buyers. If the buyers want more safety features, same reliability, top fuel economy and a down low price something has to give.

It's also a means to keep costs down in order to stay in line with Hyundai which is the strongest competitor ( financially ) in the every-day transportation field. Toyota along with HOnda and Nissan for 15 yrs has had a hold on the midsized/compact market. It's been the basis of their success. Now Hyundai is on the scene with two good products that have to be addressed. Both are among the least expensive offerings in both segments. It appears to me that Honda and Nissan and Mazda have opted to get larger and more upscale which leaves the basic transport field wide open to Hyundai. Toyota has declined to abdicate this high volume subsegment and is fighting Hyundai for it.

That however doesn't mean that upscale vehicles are being ignored. Honda now is selling more V6s than it ever did. That puts it more in competition with the Fusion and the Malibu. Toyota and Hyundai are selling some V6s but both it appears are concentrating mostly on the I4s.

I don't see it that way at all. Toyota has just come out with best V6 on the market while Honda still has the best I4.

And I dont understand what you mean by upmarket. The Camry and Accord are priced just about the same and have roughly the same number of features.

You also don't take into account that Hyundai is trying to improve quality and its the one that is moving up market with products like the Genesis and the Genesis coupe. Toyota's CEO has also said it will refocus attention on improving quality, and has adimited it dipped.

[plane]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

Here is the sure fire way to know the Appeal winner process is flawed:
"Ford won no less than five sport utility vehicle categories with
Expedition EL, Taurus X, Edge, Escape, and Lincoln Navigator". Only one of these is any good (compared to the competition).......and "Taurus X" is a retarded name for it.

Ok now I have another BIG problem with A.P.P.E.A.L:
- Mid-Size Crossover SUV Ford Escape
- Compact Crossover SUV Subaru Forester

Forester is/has:
- longer by 4.8 inches (and only 1" narrower),
- more ground clearance
- more front headroom
- more front legroom
- more rear headroom
- more rear legroom

Dude, I am beginning to question your intellect. There are 2 Toyotas. 4-Runner and Sienna. Not that I even care, but looked at the list in a glance, and saw 2.

Dude, I'm beginning to question your intellect.

You bust in here at the last minute.
Start capping on other people.
Post solely about Ford in a Toyota thread and then best of all....

In the very first sentence in your post, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt
you're not even posting about the correct automotive award.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by plane

Dude, I'm beginning to question your intellect.

You bust in here at the last minute.
Start capping on other people.
Post solely about Ford in a Toyota thread and then best of all....

In the very first sentence in your post, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt
you're not even posting about the correct automotive award.

Wow, very original "plane"....if that is your real name!

1) "Last minute"? Wrong, I own post #20 on page 2. I have contributed to this thread.

2) Capping people? He was trying to be a smart ass, but got caught making a mistake. I didn't call him any names or break any rules.

3) Wrong again....I didn't solely post about Ford only. Sometimes discussions happen within a thread that aren't the exact original post, but still have relevance.

4) Thank you for pointing out the fact I typed the wrong award. I will fix it. I said "appeal", but I meant Ideal.

[mjd1001]

I actually like the design of the current Matrix...and even thought it was a bit small inside for me..would consider buying one. Until I saw the price. WOW, that is a lot of money for what you get.

I seem to remember, in my younger days..that Toyota was known for affordable cars...value for the money. I'm now 100% convinced they are getting by on their reputations. The prices they ask for their cars..for what you get...just seem way out of line to me.

[plane]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

...
4) Thank you for pointing out the fact I typed the wrong award. I will fix it. I said "appeal", but I meant Ideal.

You're welcome, Eurohazard if that is your real name!

[marinerbc]

Originally Posted by plane

You're welcome, Eurohazard if that is your real name!

His dad wanted to call him Asia, and his mom safety. Since parents always fight about baby names, they settled on "eurohazard".

Seriously, Euro, what do you mean "if that is your real name" ?

Holy crap, man, my real name is Al Gore, but do you think I'm gonna admit that HERE??? WTF, dude!







Oops. Forget this post, ok. Really, I'm not Al Gore. I just look like him. Ok, a LOT.

Got a polar bear to save, later dudes.

[AMERICA 123]

Well, I thought it referenced - " I'm a hazard to anything automotive from Europe"

[eurohazard]

You guys are fun! I'm enjoying the loose mood! I'll tell you the meaning of my screen name:

preface: I grew up as a kid in a GM houshold loving American muscle.

When I starting driving, though I still loved muscle, imports and sport compacts were all the rage. Eventually I became enamored with Hondas.....and we started hooking them up "euro" style. You know, lowered, wide fat tires, monochrome, smooth tasteful mods etc. Anyway "eurohazard" was a name I made up for a car club.......it was a play on words to Bio Hazard. I always liked the bio hazard symbol.

Lame I know, but I've been using it since ~1995.

[marinerbc]

Nah, that's a cool monicker. Even with the euro part.

Ok not so much the euro part, but yaknowwaddImean.

[dubit]

Originally Posted by Xenon

The only cars that actually sell without incentives are hybrids, Hondas and Porsches.

Ehh, wouldn't go that far. Currently sold out of Corolla's, Yaris. (No rebates and they sell at Sticker). We're also sold out of HHR's and down to 3 Cobalts, which has an incentive. Right now from sitting here on the frontlines I've gotta be honest with ya and say that people we're seeing right now have no loyalty whatsoever to any brand. They want a cheap vehicle good on gas - point blank. We've had people buy Cobalts because we had no Corolla's. Same with Yaris people flipping to Aveo.

Availability right now is the key. We're selling in-bound unbuilt vehicles at the moment as are most dealerships in our zone. Again - with no loyalty to any brand. Appeal - shmeal... does it save money on gas and is it cheap? That's what the consumer wants.