REPORT: Hyundai Equus coming to the States in July 2010, priced under $60,000

[jbernie]

I'd just take the CTS, I am assuming the other Cadillac interior posted is the DTS?

Actually, I would go over to Holden or HSV and get a Caprice or Grange.

[jry]

Originally Posted by CUtiger08

YTD sales through May of this year for some large/premium sedans:

Buick Lucerne: 13,516
Toyota Avalon: 11,671

Genesis: 8,100

Infiniti M: 4,268
Lexus GS: 3,102
Cadillac STS: 2,694
Audi A6: 2,528

Azera: 1,638

And the the CUV catagory:

Buick Enclave: 17,105
Acura MDX: 11,118
Mazda CX-9: 8,143

Hyundai Veracruz: 6,294

Volvo XC60: 2,495
Cadillac SRX: 3,178

Overall, not amazingly good sellers, but other than the Azera (which is somewhat redundant to the Sonata/Genesis) not that bad for "overpriced" Hyundais, especially if you're primarily comparing them to the luxury brand models.

I do think that either the Genesis/Equus cars should be spun off into it's own brand or the sub-Sonata Hyundais should be killed off in the US market. I think a Sonata-Santa Fe-Genesis-Veracruz-Equus lineup could quickly and easily come to be seen as at least a solid VW or Acura level brand, though not an Infiniti/Cadillac/Lexus or German Big 3 level brand for some time.

Surprised that Avalon is that high on the list. Where is DTS and the Lincoln products?

[CUtiger08]

Originally Posted by jry

Surprised that Avalon is that high on the list. Where is DTS and the Lincoln products?

Buick Lucerne: 13,516
Toyota Avalon: 11,671

Genesis: 8,100

DTS 6,483
MKS 7,096
Towncar 4,689
Cadillac STS: 2,694


Yes, that's right... so far this year the Hyundai Genesis is outselling all of the upper-midsized or full-sized Cadillac or Lincoln models, although I'm pretty sure this includes coupe sales as well since I can't find seperate numbers for the coupe. Assuming it does, and assuming a 50/50 split between sedan/coupe sales after the coupe came out in March, the sedan is still ahead of the STS and probably about even with the Towncar so far this year.

Anyone who thinks that, long term, Hyundai-Kia as a company will be unable to sell cars in the $30k+ price range is in denial. The Equus might not do too well right now as a Hyundai-badged product, and they may yet need to spin off a new brand or remake Hyundai's image to do it, but sooner or later they will get it right. Especially if the American automakers continue to do things as inconsistently, if not outright badly, as they have been.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by CUtiger08

Buick Lucerne: 13,516
Toyota Avalon: 11,671

Genesis: 8,100

DTS 6,483
MKS 7,096
Towncar 4,689
Cadillac STS: 2,694


Yes, that's right... so far this year the Hyundai Genesis is outselling all of the upper-midsized or full-sized Cadillac or Lincoln models, although I'm pretty sure this includes coupe sales as well since I can't find seperate numbers for the coupe. Assuming it does, and assuming a 50/50 split between sedan/coupe sales after the coupe came out in March, the sedan is still ahead of the STS and probably about even with the Towncar so far this year.

You are leaving a bunch of stuff out.

Like...... the ones feeling it just as much or more

Like Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti - and some other imports.

And lets get real here for a moment.

The biggest by far 'inexcusable' concerning the Hyundai Genesis is that it didn't source from Lexus or Acura.

[CUtiger08]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

You are leaving a bunch of stuff out.

Like...... the ones feeling it just as much or more

Like Lexus, Acura, and Infiniti - and some other imports.

And lets get real here for a moment.

The biggest by far 'inexcusable' concerning the Hyundai Genesis is that it didn't source from Lexus or Acura.

Umm... might want to check my earlier post in this thread that jry quoted just 3 posts ago and that I was replying to... I did compare Genesis sales to midsized sedans from Infiniti and Lexus, and Audi too (all of whom it beat). Seriously, you might want to read through the posts someone makes, and at least the last few posts in a thread, before accusing them of "leaving a bunch of stuff out". And the Acura RL is such an also-ran I figured it wasn't even worth bringing up.

As for the lack of a "Genesis" from Lexus, they already have the IS, ES, GS, and LS sedans... there'd be nowhere for it to fit in the lineup. That being said, I would agree that the Genesis is better most ways than the rather outdated GS, and the new Equus handily beats the LS in the interior design and "value", though I think the LS is about equal in exterior looks (both are rather dull, neither good looking nor ugly, IMO).

I do agree that Acura needs to step things up a notch (or three)... like I said, the RL isn't even worth bringing up because it's doing so poorly.

[AMERICA 123]

Actually its funny -

So we don't get all tangled up - both lists are incomplete

What I'm trying to get at is if you are going to include ( all ) the ones you include on both (or if you prefer either list(s) ) then you have a few more others still left out.

Btw, do appreciate you taking the time to make the list

A day or two from now we will have all the 6 month numbers and this is a group I want to see for that.

[CUtiger08]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Actually its funny -

So we don't get all tangled up - both lists are incomplete

What I'm trying to get at is if you are going to include ( all ) the ones you include on both (or if you prefer either list(s) ) then you have a few more others still left out.

You said I left out Lexus and Infiniti... and I didn't. If you had said that I didn't include every possible car that could be compared to the Genesis, that would have been different.

And of course the lists are incomplete... the Genesis is so "segment breaking" that the sales for every sedan from a Camry to the S-class would need to be included for the list to be truly complete, and that's not even including the Azera and Veracruz competitors since I was talking about all three in my original post.

I never claimed to be listing every single possible competitor to the Genesis, all I did was show has it was doing compared to a few notable competitors, both import and domestic, that are neither "segment leaders" like the 5-series nor "also rans" like the Acura RL and Saab 9-5. I only added in the DTS and Lincolns at the request of a fellow poster, and when I saw the results I made a comment on them.

[eaton53]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Let's explore interiors, shall we??

Hyundai Genesis


VW Phaeton


Audi A8


BMW 7


Mercedes S


Lexus LS


Jaguar XJ

Oh looky.. pictures.

I've been in every one of these... the Phaeton is the best by a mile. They took all that money that people normally waste on the hood ornament and put it into the interior. It is absolutely spectacular in person, something pictures cannot convey.

The Genesis? OK, but not even close.

Here's my 2nd favorite, but I'm sure all you German Scroatlikkers And Lovers of Those Who Copy Them will disagree...



That amazing piano black addition to the already outstanding CTS interior is a distinctive alternative to tiresome "me too" imports.... just look at the pics, they all look the same not only in photos, but in person too, screaming "I'm out of ideas!"

Yawwwwnnn... OK, the Jag is a bit different (got more wood) but it's British. The Germans? The Phaeton is a '04.... Same old.

[FloridaKid730]

The Genesis looks like it has been a hit. Many of them with just the Genesis winged badge. I went to a local dealer Napletons Hyundai and saw one loaded for 52,000. I didn't see one starting around 33,000. Many were 46,000 or more. They are pretty awesome. Couldn't believe it.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by FloridaKid730

The Genesis looks like it has been a hit. Many of them with just the Genesis winged badge. I went to a local dealer Napletons Hyundai and saw one loaded for 52,000. I didn't see one starting around 33,000. Many were 46,000 or more. They are pretty awesome. Couldn't believe it.

Hey. You must live near me.. All you need to do is tell the dealership that you're not paying the $5000.00 mark-up and it's gone. Unfortunately, those who don't know this sometimes pay it. Oh well..

[jry]

Driven all of those as well, Eaton. The Phaeton was great.
I wonder if the A8 will ever be offered in the states as a Diesel?

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by eaton53

Here's my 2nd favorite, but I'm sure all you German Scroatlikkers And Lovers of Those Who Copy Them will disagree...

The best of the CTS interiors is the one not in production -- CTS Coupe Concept.





Even better than CTS-V.

[ohmywrd8]

I think this is an attractive car. But, this kind of price tag for a Hyundai is outrageous. They should have made a different name plate for this type of car. If I recall, it took Lexus a while to have a car that was around the 60k mark.

[YEH]

Originally Posted by DoomsDave

By "somewhere south of $60,000", I hope they are saying around $30K...

Who would drop $50K+ on a Hyundai? There is such a thing as overstepping your bounds. I think Hyundai is about to find that out very soon with this Lexus clone...

Uhh, the same people dropping $40k+ on a Genesis?

Or what about the people dropping $60k on a Sequoia or Land Cruiser and want to go back to a large sedan?

Not that Hyundai intends this to be a volume seller, just a niche product (like the GT-R for Nissan) to lift the brand image and ultimately pave the way for a separate lux make.

And the Equus doesn't really look like any Lexus.

Originally Posted by ejfx

I refuse to call this a Luxury car...Hyundai just hasnt earned enough of my respect...they have a long way to go...
to me its just a car that cost around $60,000
I will be embarrassed for the people that get tricked into one!

So I guess the Toyota Crown is just a $60k car...

Originally Posted by chris442

I'm just wondering who they think will buy this car. At $60k, there are a lot of other options, like well optioned 5ers, A6s and E-classes. Granted, those are smaller cars, but at the same time, I have difficulty believing that 7-series/A8/S-class/LS intenders will be looking for "a deal" on a similar car that doesn't have a prestige badge. It's just a very different sandbox than the one the Genesis is playing in. I can imagine that Hyundai sees this car as a stepping stone to bigger things, but I can't help but think it could be their VW Phaeton.

The 5, A6, etc. are already smaller than the Genesis.

This is for the people who want a fully-loaded extended wheelbase S Class, 7 or LS and don't want to pay $90-100k for it (granted, there probably aren't that many, but Hyundai doesn't expect big sales and doing this largely as a branding exercise).

Originally Posted by dewey9315

Is Hyundai paying their factory workers $2.00/hour??? How the hell do they option a vehicle like that at $60K?

It's called favorable exchange rate.

Originally Posted by jry

Whatever they do, yes, lose the hood ornament.
A 60K Hyundai? Well, if this were 1970 and someone mentioned a super lux toyota.....

I'll bet they settle in at 51, fully loaded, with a base of 49.

Huh? How can there only be a spread of $2k btwn the base and fully-loaded version?

If Hyundai only brings over the Tau V-8 version, I'd say $52-53 for the base and fully loaded at around $58k.

If they also bring over the V6 version, then the starting price-point would likely be around $47-48k.

Originally Posted by A.J.

Oooh, it does look nice in black(without the hood ornament, of course)...like the Buick that never happened. Someone could easily chop a Buick badge on that waterfall grille.

Why does Hyundai have to copy EVERYTHING?!? They're turning into the Chinese!

Uhh, Mercury/Lincoln also uses that type of grille.

Not to mention that Infiniti, Acura and Lexus have all used grilles reminiscent of more established makes when they were starting out (for example, the Infiniti Q45 had a very Jaguar-like grille).

Originally Posted by ejfx

Would you purchase a $100,000 Yugo ??? I doubt it...because Yugo only made small compacts...the brand image will always be associated with that type of car...you cant change that image. Hyundai only makes cars that pretend to be more then they are... they dont make cars you should be proud of....You will never hear a child wish he could drive a hyundai when he grows up...

Yeah, kids these days have the exact same way of viewing brands as people who grew up decades ago.

For someone who grew up during the '60s and '70s - they probably could have never imagined anyone buying a $60k Toyota (Land Cruiser), a $77k Datsun, er Nissan (GT-R) or a $39,800 VW (CC).

Originally Posted by ModerateRight

That may be the longterm strategy, move Hyundai up to get rid of the overlap with Kia. In some regards the Genesis and Equus are experiments to see how far they can push the Hyundai brand.

Both Hyundai and Kia are moving upmarket.

The mid-large Kia VG sedan is targeted for the Maxima/Avalon price segment.

Originally Posted by ModerateRight

Don't forget VW and Audi design at the time was very similar, and the Phaeton looked like a larger overpriced Passat. For the same price the buyer could pick up a nicely equipped and near-identical A6 from the same family, there was very little incentive to buy the Phaeton.

Though I agree with your earlier comment on a $60K Hyundai being ridiculous.

Actually, for a few thousand more (for the smaller engine variant), one could pick up the A8 (in its last year of sale in the US, the Phaeton started at $70k and went over $100k - well over the A6's price-range).

Originally Posted by boston boy

all I have to say is CTS-V

Yeah, like the CTS-V is a full-sized (much less extended wheelbase) sedan.

Originally Posted by FireFox89

30k territory, you can undercut here and there. Then at 60k your not looking for savings AS you CAN afford the snob appealing badge in the 1st place.

People who could afford the snob-appealing badge moved in a hurry to Lexus before it had built any brand cache for the substantial savings.

Originally Posted by TakuZaKyousei

Furthermore, Hyundai being able to produce a big luxo car should not be met with all the "ooohs and aaahs" that it is. They have been selling people cheap low quality vehicles for over 40 years, all the while using cheap components and cheap labor, with minimal discounts enough to make the purchases appear to be "bargains" that Americans, for instance, so often love. Why the heck would that not be a profitable business?

Sounds like Honda, Toyota, Datsun/Nissan, etc. back during the 1950s to the early '80s.

And oh, the "cheap" (crappy) components were sourced from Mitsubishi - it's not coincidence that Hyundai's reliability started to improve once they stopped using Mitsu's powerplants and drivetrains.

Originally Posted by CUtiger08

Buick Lucerne: 13,516
Toyota Avalon: 11,671

Genesis: 8,100

DTS 6,483
MKS 7,096
Towncar 4,689
Cadillac STS: 2,694


Yes, that's right... so far this year the Hyundai Genesis is outselling all of the upper-midsized or full-sized Cadillac or Lincoln models, although I'm pretty sure this includes coupe sales as well since I can't find seperate numbers for the coupe. Assuming it does, and assuming a 50/50 split between sedan/coupe sales after the coupe came out in March, the sedan is still ahead of the STS and probably about even with the Towncar so far this year.

The GenCoupe didn't start selling in any substantial nos. til May.

Prior to that, the Genesis sedan was doing 1,500-1,600 in monthly sales.

Originally Posted by eaton53

I've been in every one of these... the Phaeton is the best by a mile. They took all that money that people normally waste on the hood ornament and put it into the interior. It is absolutely spectacular in person, something pictures cannot convey.

The Phaeton's not bad - that's if you like overly large, plastic buttons.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

The wood is real...

Thanks, good to know.