Prius' woes not limited to brakes

[1G6]

Prius' woes not limited to brakes

Reports of light failure on the Toyota hybrid cast new suspicion on electronic controls.

A new federal investigation into braking problems with Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius hybrid is just one in a series of possible glitches that may be linked to the vehicle's complex electronics, including headlights that fail inexplicably, records and interviews show.

...

A Times review of safety records indicates that the Prius is prone to a number of other safety issues that motorists complain have not been resolved.

The most persistent problem involves headlights. Since 2001, Prius owners have lodged more than 1,300 complaints about exterior lights shutting off without warning, most frequently the headlights.

According to complaints, the high-intensity discharge (HID) headlights, an option on the Prius, shut off without warning, sometimes in dangerous situations, leading to four crashes and at least one injury.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...0,986574.story

[smithrobs]

Seems like just a few years ago that Toyota was bragging about sqeezing their development times for all new models down to two years, and they were pushing for 18 months. I guess we can see the consequences of rushing new models out the door.

[Hitman1970]

I am not dancing in the streets over this. I certainly hope GM will take all the right steps to ensure the "complex electronic controls" of the Volt are right from day one in the show room.

[Butz]

All GM has to do is deliver the Volt trouble-free and watch Toyota lose its Prius sales

[zete]

There's a general rush in the auto industry to shovel more and more gizmotry into cars. I hate it. I don't think enough of it is thought out correctly or even tested properly. We've seen problems all over the place with overly complicated systems -- iDrive anyone? -- and inevitably something goes wrong. Add to that the fact that repairs post warranty are horribly expensive and it's one reason a lot of people stay away from the more complicated vehicles.

I do think too many firms are way too enamoured with technology. I also think, and this as a computer engineer, that too much software is poorly designed, monolithic by nature, and error prone because it's being designed and written as if it were still the 1970s. I could go on a long rant about how bad software is but with the industry having a track record of 75% or more projects failing I'm sure the same statistics apply to the complex systems in automobiles and it has me worried.

Obviously, those that move the most stuff into a car with the most complex code will experience the most problems, and perhaps that's what we're seeing here.

[SRX 2.8T]

All GM has to do is deliver the Volt trouble-free and watch Toyota lose its Prius sales

Amen, I hope the volt isn't a piece of crap !

[AMERICA 123]

There's a general rush in the auto industry to shovel more and more gizmotry into cars. I hate it. I don't think enough of it is thought out correctly or even tested properly. We've seen problems all over the place with overly complicated systems -- iDrive anyone? -- and inevitably something goes wrong. Add to that the fact that repairs post warranty are horribly expensive and it's one reason a lot of people stay away from the more complicated vehicles.

I do think too many firms are way too enamoured with technology. I also think, and this as a computer engineer, that too much software is poorly designed, monolithic by nature, and error prone because it's being designed and written as if it were still the 1970s. I could go on a long rant about how bad software is but with the industry having a track record of 75% or more projects failing I'm sure the same statistics apply to the complex systems in automobiles and it has me worried.

Obviously, those that move the most stuff into a car with the most complex code will experience the most problems, and perhaps that's what we're seeing here.

All the above also really helps make a negative difference in ownership patterns and the pre owned market.

[XP300]

All GM has to do is deliver the Volt trouble-free and watch Toyota lose its Prius sales

There's a general rush in the auto industry to shovel more and more gizmotry into cars. I hate it. I don't think enough of it is thought out correctly or even tested properly. We've seen problems all over the place with overly complicated systems -- iDrive anyone? -- and inevitably something goes wrong. Add to that the fact that repairs post warranty are horribly expensive and it's one reason a lot of people stay away from the more complicated vehicles.

I do think too many firms are way too enamoured with technology. I also think, and this as a computer engineer, that too much software is poorly designed, monolithic by nature, and error prone because it's being designed and written as if it were still the 1970s. I could go on a long rant about how bad software is but with the industry having a track record of 75% or more projects failing I'm sure the same statistics apply to the complex systems in automobiles and it has me worried.

Obviously, those that move the most stuff into a car with the most complex code will experience the most problems, and perhaps that's what we're seeing here.

I have to agree with both of the posts above. We have been accustomed to more and more computer controlled gizmos and less and less on driver skills. From what I've read (thanks Zete), many of these systems are under programed and open to interference from radio and other signals due to our obsession with cell phones, blackberries, etc..

Many of us expect our vehicles to take care of us on the road, instead of us taking care to drive within the limitations of our vehicle, the road condition and the weather.

GM must make the Volt as perfect as possible, even if it means delaying production by a month or two. If I were in charge at GM, I would get as many pre-production models into the hands of people (Like those here at GMI) for "volume" testing in real world conditions.

[Canyonaro]

No shock, soon we will see quite the jump in these complaints with all their models.

[ne_one]

GM must make the Volt as perfect as possible, even if it means delaying production by a month or two. If I were in charge at GM, I would get as many pre-production models into the hands of people (Like those here at GMI) for "volume" testing in real world conditions.

Interesting point.

nsap - when you're making technical inquiries next time could you ask if there are any provisions to reduce or eliminate electronic interference? GM is promoting iPhone/Blackberry apps for their vehicles so it must be a consideration.

[chevytodd]

If I were in charge at GM, I would get as many pre-production models into the hands of people (Like those here at GMI) for "volume" testing in real world conditions.

Excellent idea. Someone here also mentioned giving one to Steve Wozniak, also a great idea. I volunteer to test drive one ! I'd be a great candidate. I live in a hot and cold climate which will test strain on the charging system. I commute to work partially on a freeway and in downtown traffic. And, I work in a Chevrolet dealership. Potential customers would see the car everyday and could help build up pre-orders.... Hmmm..... I should e-mail GM......

[AMERICA 123]

Just look at what the actual owners have to say - about common problems.

Summary of problems reported on Prius 2010

List of problems reported on the Prius 2010

Note to all Prius 2010 owners: if you have observed any of the problems described below on your Prius, please post the problem name and your Prius build date (in this thread). This way we can keep track of problem resolution and update this list accordingly.

Display / electronics

Problem: Red arrow in energy monitor hard to see in daylight
Description: Fix for difficulty seeing red arrows on Energy Monitor Screen in daylight (2010 Prius II)?
Solution: Pending
Last observed on a Prius built on: June 2009

Problem: Car computer overestimates MPG
Description: 2010 calculated vs. computer MPG - Please post your results
Solution: Pending (Toyota has been made aware of the problem)
Last observed on a Prius built on: June 2009

Problem: Air Conditioning display is cloudy/blurry
Description: Cloudy/Blurry AC screen?
Solution: Solved. Toyota has issued a TSB and is replacing the AC display under warranty. See Cloudy/Blurry AC screen?

Problem: Delay in answering calls with Nav and Bluetooth
Description: Delay in answering phone w/Nav
Solution: Pending
Last observed on a Prius built on: Oct 2009

Problem: Satellite radio signal is weak
Description: 2010 Prius - Satellite Radio Signal Weak
Solution: Pending
Last observed on a Prius built on: Oct 2009

Problem: Satellite radio display is truncated to 16 characters
Description: Satellite Radio Character Length
Solution: Pending
Last observed on a Prius built on: Oct 2009

Problem: Ghost image on speed display
Description: Double Vision on Speed Display
Solution: Pending, although some have observed that the intensity of the ghosting effect depends on the driver's head position.
Last observed on a Prius built on: June 2009

Problem: Slip indicator comes on when at a full stop
Description: Slip indicator comes on when at a full stop
Solution: Pending

Problem: Can't hear nav voice over stereo
Description: Can't hear nav voice over stereo
Solution: Pending

Problem: Phone numbers disappear from contact list
Description: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-...appearing.html
Solution: Pending
Last observed on a Prius built on: June 2009

Problem: Apparent screen burn-in
Description: Energy Monitor Burning in !!!??? and Anyone else notice any screen burn?
Solution: Pending, although it is not totally clear whether the burn-in effect is permanent or temporary.

Problem: Navigation DVD not detected at car boot up
Description: Insert DVD Navigation Disk
Solution: Pending

Problem: FM radio reception is weak
Description: Weak FM radio reception in 2010 Prius?
Solution: Pending
Last observed on a Prius built on: Oct 2009

Other interior features

Problem: Cargo net panel separation
Description: 2010 Cargo Net issues and resolution (panel separation)
Solution: Solved. Toyota is now selling cargo nets with an updated version of the hook, that is much stronger. Also see: Cargo Net Fix TSB# is 0347-09 and Cargo Net Fix TSB# is 0347-09

Problem: Auto-dimming mirror sensor wrongly positioned
Description: Homelink Mirror Auto Dimming (or not?)
Solution: Pending, although some have found temporary fixes as detailed in the link above.
Last observed on a Prius built on: Oct 2009

Problem: Seatbelts on the rear seats are difficult to fasten
Description: Rear Seat Buckling Problems in the 2010 Prius?
Solution: Pending, although some have found ways to make fastening a bit easier.

Problem: Rattle noises from various sources inside the cabin
Description: Several threads, including: Do you hear rattling noises?, Gen 3 Dashboard rattles & creaks, B-Pillar Rattle
Solution: Pending.
Last observed on a Prius built on: June 2009

Problem: Tonneau cover won't retract at low temperature
Description: Prius in deep (15cm+) loose snow (Results)
Solution: Pending.
Last observed on a Prius built on: Oct 2009

Mechanical

Problem: Brakes grabbing in reverse
Description: braking in reverse
Solution: Pending, although some have found ways to avoid it, and others claim the problem goes away after a few weeks.

Problem: Momentary loss of braking power when navigating over a bumpy surface, pot hole or water
Description: The problem seems to be caused by the delay in switching from regeneration to friction braking. See Braking problem, Is there something wrong with my traction control ? and Floating feeling when braking
Solution: Complaints have been filed with NHTSA. See NHTSA Tracking Braking Loss on Prius Hybrids
Last observed on a Prius built on: Oct 2009

Problem: Disengaging cruise control requires a firm push on the brakes
Description: Releasing Cruise Control with Brake
Solution: Pending. The problem would be related with the position of the brake light switch, and apparently cannot be adjusted without altering brake light behavior.
Last observed on a Prius built on: June 2009

Problem: Squeaking sound from wheels during rolling start
Description: http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-...ing-start.html
Solution: Pending. There is some debate on the source of the noise.

Problem: Rough engine start
Description: Rough engine start, violent shaking at start up and Prius Condition After 2 Weeks Vacation
Solution: Pending.

Problem: Occasional traction power killed in deep snow
Description: Prius in deep (15cm+) loose snow (Results)
Solution: Pending.

Problem: Unintended acceleration when backing up
Description: braking in reverse and Summary of problems reported on Prius 2010
Solution: Pending.

Problem: Coolant is leaking from the transaxle coolant drain plug
Description: Inverter Coolant Leak: T-SB-0352-09
Solution: Solved. Toyota has issued a TSB and tightens the plug under warranty. See: Inverter Coolant Leak: T-SB-0352-09


Battery

Problem: Small (12 v) battery discharges too much when car not used for more than 10 days
Description: See 2010 II 12 Volt Battery Dead After 17 Days of Parking and 12 volt battery dead - 2010 Prius
Solution: Only rarely observed. The Prius is apparently equipped with a system to prevent it from happening. Disconnecting the battery when the car is not used for long periods prevents the problem from happening. Observations described in Battery Lives After Parking For a Full Month showed the battery can remain ok for 1 month.
Last edited by CivicQc; 02-02-2010 at 09:01 AM. Reason: Added reference to 12v battery that can live up to a month

http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii-...us-2010-a.html

[minnfang]

I do think too many firms are way too enamoured with technology.

It's also true of many GMIers.

I've said before, as the person who maintains cars for a number of family members - I shudder to think what it is going to cost to replace some of the latest stuff. I wonder what a set if DI injectors or a high pressure mechanical fuel pump will cost. Or some of the whiz band headlight systems on a lot of new cars. How about a BAS "alternator" from one of GM's mild hybrids. Or an in dash nav unit. etc, etc, etc.
(No, I'm not tech adverse - I'm an EE who loves the thought of all of these wonderful toys.)

[Skank Boy]

LOL..."Prius "WHOA-ES not limited to brakes"...fixed that headline.

[mbukukanyau]

I see some holy' enviromentalists beleivers driving those things down the road all the time..