NHTSA slams Toyota for 'inaccurate, misleading' recall statements

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by American_Muscle

ive never had a problem with floormats in my chevy. nor have any family members

It's not the floormats. Ya need to read the reports of the accident.

[PhishPhood]

There are lots of posts herein about 'Why not this....' and 'How could this happen...' and 'This never happens....'

Before posting try investigating in person ( I have ). It's impossible for the OEM floormats to cause this problem. It's impossible.

So you say 'If it's impossible then where's the problem?' Right? Here's the answer. Go out onto the highway, get up to the speed of traffic and take a cinderblock and lay it on your gas pedal. Then try stopping using only the brakes. Is it the fault of the floormat that you can't stop? No of course not, it's the cinderblock causing the problem. But the cinderblock doesn't belong on the gas pedal, neither does the extra set of All Weather mats in the subject cases.

Side Note: why some dope at Toyota in Torrance would jump the gun and piss off the NHTSA is beyond me...that's just stupid.

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Now it is.. At that time it was not. At the moment the 'recall' appears to consist of two parts: "...throw away the driver's side floor mat, if you wish" on existing vehicles. The second stage of the recall is likely be the implementation of 'smart pedals' of some kind or another. I'll venture to say that the second stage will be on vehicles made in the future as an added safety precaution.

Actually... according to this, Toyota agreed to the recall on October 5th. It was after that you were persistently arguing that it was not a recall, but just a "Safety Advisory".

[plane]

Hand wave. Hand wave. Shuffle your feet some more. Talk faster.
It's a customer appreciation notice.

We've seen this pattern phar too many times.
Someone puts phorward a highly unlikely implausible explanation to later have it crushed by facts.
Demolished by facts.
Buried under an avalanche of facts.
Turned crispy in a deep fat fryer of undeniable facts.


Can't wait to see the NHTSA report.

[PocoToro]

Originally Posted by Wheels66

A little insight to this situation. This is not good.

http://politicolnews.com/toyota-runaway-vehicles/

Where are the government agencies are why are they allowing these defective cars to continue killing consumers? Why are they allowing Toyota to get away with not recalling their defective vehicles which are obviously not a floor mat problem?
Toyota vehicles lack a safety control system in the computerized engine which are either unknown to Toyota or
are being ignored in favor of profit.
Toyota must look hard at its choices here or face the wrath of consumer lawsuits and negative brand confidence.

Let me channel Dana Carvey as The Church Lady

“Well, isn't that special?”

“Could it be…SATAN?”

[FenwickHockey65]

My friend's parents were thinking about getting a toyota.

I sent them the link to the ABC news video.

They're not considering it anymore.

[PocoToro]

Originally Posted by American_Muscle

ive never had a problem with floormats in my chevy. nor have any family members

My father has a problem with floor mats in his Buick....He scrunches them up behind the gas peddle and the car won't go. I'm constantly pulling it down into place for him.

[ColinOpseth]

I believe GM uses two TPS sensors on the accelerator pedal as a failsafe. I wonder if Toyota uses the same?

[Mustapha Mond]

pwned

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by ejfx

Many people are claiming its the design off the shift panel on the console...its said to be too complicated and may have confused the guy that crashed doing 100mph...He couldnt shift out of neutral.
When the minds in a panic like that guys was when he was out of control...it can be nearly impossible to focus on the smallest detail because the larger detail controls your thoughts

How is it designed? They are supposed to be designed so that a good bump will throw the car into neutral. Any car. A bump up on a column shift should do it and a bump forward on a console shifter.

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

There are lots of posts herein about 'Why not this....' and 'How could this happen...' and 'This never happens....'

Before posting try investigating in person ( I have ). It's impossible for the OEM floormats to cause this problem. It's impossible.

So you say 'If it's impossible then where's the problem?' Right? Here's the answer. Go out onto the highway, get up to the speed of traffic and take a cinderblock and lay it on your gas pedal. Then try stopping using only the brakes. Is it the fault of the floormat that you can't stop? No of course not, it's the cinderblock causing the problem. But the cinderblock doesn't belong on the gas pedal, neither does the extra set of All Weather mats in the subject cases.

Side Note: why some dope at Toyota in Torrance would jump the gun and piss off the NHTSA is beyond me...that's just stupid.

You're comparing this



to this?



Seriously? I don't know about you but in EVERY car I've owned and just about all I've ever driven had some sort of rubberized floor mat in it. None, not one, ever had a cinder block in the passenger compartment

You keep saying the floor mats have nothing to do with it. Well then...'

1) why is Toyota zip-tying and just removing floor mats?

2) what is causing it?

[eaton53]

It's probably a problem with the electronics.
The retarded pedal design? Just a coincidence.

I own no vehicle where a mat could cause a problem. I can put my entire foot under the gas pedal in all of them.

[SigEpCutlass]

Wow, I wonder if Toyoda is crying about this too...

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Why not just cut the bottom of the damn pedal off?

How come no other car in the 100+ years and billions of cars sold had such a big problem with the pedal getting stuck by the floor mat...unless that's only a small part of the real problem...

Originally Posted by bradyholt

They do.

Nope. Uzzy's right - you missed a key word.

Originally Posted by drew630

Is that really Toyota's fix? Or is that a customer fix?

Actually that's the latest and greatest - and now visible version of -

" The relentless pursuit of perfection " and " The passionate pursuit of perfection "

_____________

Originally Posted by 1G6

Boom! Here comes the Boom!
Ready or not, How you like me now?

Originally Posted by 1G6

Good luck with that.

I bet they're pounding the Hibiki in Georgetown tonight.

Originally Posted by 1G6

Nihon no higeki is in full swing, and the apologists can't do a damn thing about it.

Priceless

- and people thought a high building watch in Toyota City isn't necessary.

Originally Posted by V8GMT360 Guy

I recently saw a video suggesting exactly this... shift into neutral, both feet firmly on the brake (do NOT pulse the brakes, just hold the pedal to the floor) and once the vehicle is safely stopped THEN kill the engine.

Hmmmmm...... think about what you just posted. If you can get to neutral first then the braking becomes much, much easier - which is why that's the logical first move.

However.... and this is real "interesting" - both Toyota and their #1 misinformation source AKA Consumer Reports both have you brake ( hard push ) first, - 'slow the vehicle' and then place in neutral.

This is a big clue as to what some of the other issues are here.

Real possible for instance that when in WOT and above a certain speed neutral will not engage.

It also appears very likely that -

Reverse is not available at much lower speeds.

Downshifts are also not fully available under all conditions - most importantly the ones that really matter here.

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

All we need is Dateline strapping some napalm to the gas pedal and videotaping it for the circle to be complete.

And Clarence Ditlow, Ralph Nader and the rest of our Safety establishment who have let Toyota and some others run amuck on safety issues for the last 40 plus years.

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Now it is.. At that time it was not. At the moment the 'recall' appears to consist of two parts: "...throw away the driver's side floor mat, if you wish" on existing vehicles. The second stage of the recall is likely be the implementation of 'smart pedals' of some kind or another. I'll venture to say that the second stage will be on vehicles made in the future as an added safety precaution.

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Actually... according to this, Toyota agreed to the recall on October 5th. It was after that you were persistently arguing that it was not a recall, but just a "Safety Advisory".

According to the NHTSA - which does seem to contradict some other earlier Toyota gibberish that may in fact be partially correct -

The following is directly from the NHTSA.

NHTSA Header Logo

NHTSA 110409

Wednesday, November 04, 2009

Karen Aldana
Telephone: (202) 366-9550

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) issued a statement today correcting inaccurate and misleading information put out by Toyota concerning a safety recall involving 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles:

A press release put out by Toyota earlier this week about their recall of 3.8 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles inaccurately stated NHTSA had reached a conclusion "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured."

NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck.

But it is simply an interim measure.

This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design.

Safety is the number one priority for NHTSA and this is why officials are working with Toyota to find the right way to fix this very dangerous problem.

This matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle based solution.

NHTSA constantly monitors consumer complaints and other data. This comprehensive recall focuses on pedal entrapment by floor mats, but NHTSA will fully investigate any possible defect trends in these vehicles.

TIMELINE OF EVENTS

* On September 29, 2009, NHTSA issued a Consumer Alert warning owners of Toyota and Lexus vehicles about "conditions that could cause the accelerator to get stuck open."

As an interim measure, NHTSA "strongly encouraged" owners of specific models to take out the removable driver's side floor mats and not to replace them any other type of mat.

NHTSA warned consumers "a stuck accelerator may result in very high vehicle speeds and a crash, which could cause serious injury or death."

* On the same day, Toyota issued a voluntary recall of 3.8 million vehicles to address problems caused when removable floor mats push the accelerator pedal to the floor.

* NHTSA officials are meeting with Toyota to hear their action plan for redesigning the vehicles and correcting this very serious defect.

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/portal/site...earSelect=2009

There is a technical point in all this - and it seems the NHTSA is fast stepping around it

[CamaroAMX]

And here I though Audis only accelerated under demonic influence.

[mbukukanyau]

Toyota is running out of options. Its got a serious culture of lying that is movint it foward towards its own death. I do not think they can tell the difference between lying and truth anymore. They are are having a Dan Rather moment