NHTSA slams Toyota for 'inaccurate, misleading' recall statements

[PistonsFan]

NHTSA slams Toyota for 'inaccurate, misleading' recall statements
The Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091...all-statements



Washington -- The government sharply criticized Toyota Motor Corp. Wednesday for issuing what the agency called an "inaccurate and misleading" statement about its planned recall of 3.8 million vehicles linked to sudden, unintended acceleration that may be due to more than improperly fitting floor mats.

The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration's criticism of Toyota's statement is the latest hit to the automaker's reputation from what will be the largest safety recall in its history.

NHTSA said Toyota inaccurately suggested in a press release this week that the agency had concluded "that no defect exists in vehicles in which the driver's floor mat is compatible with the vehicle and properly secured," the agency said in a statement.

Toyota spokesman Brian Lyons said the company hadn't meant to mislead anyone.

"It was never our intention to mislead or provide inaccurate information. Toyota agrees with NHTSA's position that the removal of the floor mats is an interim measure and that further vehicle-based action is required," Lyons said. "We are in the process of developing vehicle-based remedies to help avoid the potential for an unsecured or incompatible floor mat to trap the accelerator pedal."

...

NHTSA has told Toyota and consumers that removing the recalled floor mats is the most immediate way to address the safety risk and avoid the possibility of the accelerator becoming stuck.

"But it is simply an interim measure. This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design," the agency said.

"This matter is not closed until Toyota has effectively addressed the defect by providing a suitable vehicle-based solution."

Toyota began mailing notices last week to 3.8 million vehicle owners, urging them to remove their floor mats while it seeks a remedy for the problem.

In addition to floor mats, those factors may include the accelerator pedal design, and the ignition system's software, Toyota has said.

On Oct 5, Toyota agreed to the recall, just days after the U.S. government issued an "urgent" warning to remove driver floor mats because they could jam.

[PistonsFan]

I think I recall a certain GMI member trying to downplay this issue.

...so, yes this is most definitely a recall.

[FenwickHockey65]

"It was never our intention to mislead or provide inaccurate information. Toyota agrees with NHTSA's position that the removal of the floor mats is an interim measure and that further vehicle-based action is required," Lyons said. "We are in the process of developing vehicle-based remedies to help avoid the potential for an unsecured or incompatible floor mat to trap the accelerator pedal."

Translation: ****. Cat's out of the bag.

[Uzzy]

Why not just cut the bottom of the damn pedal off? How come no other car in the 100+ years and billions of cars sold had such a big problem with the pedal getting stuck by the floor mat...unless that's only a small part of the real problem...

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Why not just cut the bottom of the damn pedal off? How come no other car in the 100+ years and billions of cars sold had such a big problem with the pedal getting stuck by the floor mat...unless that's only a small part of the real problem...

The reason?

It's not the pedal. It's not even the floormat...

[bradyholt]

Originally Posted by Uzzy

Why not just cut the bottom of the damn pedal off? How come no other car in the 100+ years and billions of cars sold had such a big problem with the pedal getting stuck by the floor mat...unless that's only a small part of the real problem...

They do.

[drew630]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

Is that really Toyota's fix? Or is that a customer fix?

As for the recalls, I still think it's the pedals. Toyota drivers aren't the only ones placing all weather mats over the factory mats and you don't see other manufacturer's facing this issue. The distance from the floor to the pedals has to be the issue, if it's actually mats getting stuck that's causing these problems.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by drew630

Is that really Toyota's fix? Or is that a customer fix?

The news report I first saw that picture on made it seem to be Toyota's temporary fix. I can't with absolute certainty that it's Toyota's fix, though.

[civilzues]

Does anyone know what the real problem is? or is it really floor mats?

[1G6]

Time to quit phooling around.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by civilzues

Does anyone know what the real problem is? or is it really floor mats?

Floor mats could've caused maybe a few of the accidents, but if you watched that news video (Dateline I think?), they interview a few victims who didn't even have the floormats in question in their cars. Something's up with the electronics that control the throttles in the cars, but toyota just won't admit it.

[1G6]

Boom! Here comes the Boom!
Ready or not, How you like me now?

[PistonsFan]

Originally Posted by civilzues

Does anyone know what the real problem is? or is it really floor mats?

It is a combination of problems, that creates an unacceptable problem.

The accelerator pedal has a downward-facing angle that can grab on to a floormat if it slides under the pedal. So if you have loose floormats or aftermarket floormats, this is a problem.

There are also some "second-order" effects that are problematic. In one of the fatal crashes, the brakes got extremely hot as the driver tried to stop the car while the throttle was stuck at WOT. The brakes were not capable of overcoming the engine torque and the brakes may have thermally failed.

That is an unacceptable design flaw. They could implement a brake sensor that recognizes when braking is being applied during high-load operations.

There was also a complaint that the vehicles with push-start functionality did not have an intuitive way to shut off the car in such an emergency. If I remember correctly, you must hold the button down for a certain duration before the car shuts off.

[Burnout Czar]

Originally Posted by 1G6

Boom! Here comes the Boom!
Ready or not, How you like me now?

Haha. Sure am glad I'm not driving a yoter but at the same time I worried for my safety as there all the ticking time bomb toyotas waiting to run me over, joggers beware!

This has been a great week, first GM increases share, decides to keep Opel, and Toyota is getting slammed in the news. There were many bad weeks for us GMers but perhaps there is a light at the end of the tunnel for us!!!

[1G6]

Originally Posted by PistonsFan

"This remedy does not correct the underlying defect in the vehicles involving the potential for entrapment of the accelerator by floor mats, which is related to accelerator and floor pan design," the agency said.

Good luck with that.

I bet they're pounding the Hibiki in Georgetown tonight.