The New Chrysler: In-Alfa Romeo/Fiat Models; Out-Dodge Caravan & More

[CamaroAMX]

I'm starting to get a "seen this before" vibe from all of this. AMC/ Renault anyone?
If my memory serves me right, Renault bought into AMC and as time went on infused AMC with Renault cars and eliminated most of AMC's offerings. AMC was in finanacial ruin (as is chrysler a few months ago) and renault came to the rescue. At the time AMC has very few future models coming out. Renault gave AMC many new cars (that few wanted)and all went down hill from there.

[Stéphane Dumas]

I read the same rumor on Allpar forums, we have to wait until Nov 4 about Marchionne's plans will be showed.

[GMJoe]

Originally Posted by MyImpalaSS

So they are elliminating the best-selling domestic van and one of the best offered on the market.

Other than that and the Avenger, the rest can go. Seeeeeeeeee ya.

Article said the GRAND Caravan would go, not the regular Caravan.

Fiat is evidentally trying to boost the Chrysler line by only making the large van avalible in the Chrysler line up.

May be thinking of pushing the smaller Caravan in Europe and other countries where smaller vans are popular.

[ARCANGEL]

Originally Posted by GMJoe

Article said the GRAND Caravan would go, not the regular Caravan.

Fiat is evidentally trying to boost the Chrysler line by only making the large van avalible in the Chrysler line up.

May be thinking of pushing the smaller Caravan in Europe and other countries where smaller vans are popular.

Good observation and now it makes even more sense leave the regular size caravan the the larger one in town and country guise

[96RIV]

Originally Posted by PontiacBixler

There is only one problem I have with the Jeep list and that is killing the Patriot.

The Compass was a failure as soon as it left the drawing boards and went to production.
The Commander was only designed to go after the "bigger is better" Hummer, Navigator, Escalade demographic. Sure a lot of them sold but you could sell these people into a Grand Cherokee instead.

If you ask me the Liberty is getting out of hand. It is roughly the same size, if not bigger in some cases, as the Grand Cherokee.

The auto industry has been making these stupid choices of making smaller cars bigger but keeping the full sized cars the same size.

Jeep could use a line up like this:
- Small Hurricane-like styled 2 door soft top (Rugged)
- Patriot 4 door (CUV)
- Wrangler 2/4 door (Rugged)
- Liberty 4 door (CUV)
- Grand Cherokee 4 door (Rugged)

It took two pages for somebody to say it, and if you hadn't then i would. It is very stupid that they are getting rid of the Patriot, it looks like a Jeep, acts like a Jeep, and is awesome compared to the Compass.
Other than the Grand Caravan, that was the other vehicle to stick out in the group.

[Bravada]

I still think there is some speculation in this article, and we will find out in nov what the whole story is from marchionne's mouth

I think the truth is in the middle:

Sebring and Avenger
Marchionne repeatedly said that Sterling Heights WILL be closed. This would indicate mean the underperforming sedans will simply be cut, which is why Sebring's MCE was extremely limited and both models currently exist in one trim level each. The cost of significantly increasing sales and margins on the JS cars might simply be far too high for the gamble to pay off, as the competition in the segment is stifling.

The higher-margin Cabrio might move to Belvidere, which theoretically CAN build another related model. The "study visit" at Sterling Heights which sparked the rumor that the factory could be saved might have been to study the possibility of moving the unique cabrio roof assembly line to Belvidere.

Caliber, Compass, Patriot
They are still quite fresh, sell moderately well and the Jeeps command rather high margins for what are essentially compact cars. It only makes sense to keep the lines running until the end of shelf life, which is around 2012 - as the article says, at least the Jeep will be replaced by a Fiat-based product, which simply means keeping in with the current formula.

In the medium run, with a single sales channel, Fiatsler doesn't need three different CUVs to go after the same market. I believe Dodge might leave SUVs to Jeep entirely, so killing the Caliber (and Compass) in favour of C-Evo-based "Patriot II" in 2012 makes sense.

Minivan
The margin argument is no. 1, then the Chrysler is the international model both in branding and appearance now, the delivery versions might be taken over by Fiat Ducatos branded as "Dodge Trucks" and the family truckster doesn't really support Dodge's "muscle" image. There is a good argument for keeping T&C over Caravan if there is no Chrysler minivan-based crossover planned. The current Dodge/Chrysler sales mix in North America is more of a result of a coin's toss than consumer preferences, given the integrated sales channels.


PT Cruiser
This model is already a zombie, an it was pretty unique, there is little chance of replacing it with anything. The 500 was recently announced to be made in up to 100,000 units, it will pick up the current PT volume with no problem and the margins will probably be equally high.


Dodge Nitro
The future of the entire Liberty platform is in question, IMHO, as the plant wasn't among those immediately restarted after Chrysler emerged from bankruptcy, I am not even sure if it runs now. Anyway, in the long run Nitro's volume might be picked up by the Alfa SUV for international consumption (I still believe it will bomb, but this might explain Fiat's thinking).

[CJ Thunder]

Originally Posted by 96RIV

It took two pages for somebody to say it, and if you hadn't then i would. It is very stupid that they are getting rid of the Patriot, it looks like a Jeep, acts like a Jeep, and is awesome compared to the Compass.
Other than the Grand Caravan, that was the other vehicle to stick out in the group.

Ok well the new GC doesn't look like much Jeep, the Commander on the other hand looks like a GRAND Cherokee.

As long as the new Durango looks like the rendering on allpar, more Ramish, then the GC will remain a cheap Range Rover (who is chasing who?).

[Bravada]

Article said the GRAND Caravan would go, not the regular Caravan.

The regular Caravan died in 2008. There is only the Grand Caravan in the current generation RT minivans. T&C is of the same size, there is no SWB minivan anymore.

Chrysler's small MPV for international sales is the Journey, currently the best-selling Chrysler vehicle outside of North America.

[Uzzy]

So that explains the Ram Truck brand. The only thing Dodge has going for it is the Caravan. Will they kill it and go with just the Town and Country? Will Chrysler move up to Lincoln territory like they should or move down to Dodge territory. Fiat Carovana?

[Bravada]

Fiat might kill the problematic lower-end Dodge cars, they are not killing the profitable RWD line or the Ram.

The only thing Dodge has going for it is the Caravan.

CHARGERRRRRR
CHALENGERRRRRR

$$$$$$!
$$!
$!

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Bravada

CHARGERRRRRR
CHALENGERRRRRR

$$$$$$!
$$!
$!

[longislander]

Originally Posted by CamaroAMX

I'm starting to get a "seen this before" vibe from all of this. AMC/ Renault anyone?
If my memory serves me right, Renault bought into AMC and as time went on infused AMC with Renault cars and eliminated most of AMC's offerings. AMC was in finanacial ruin (as is chrysler a few months ago) and renault came to the rescue. At the time AMC has very few future models coming out. Renault gave AMC many new cars (that few wanted)and all went down hill from there.

Great observation ! History seems to be repeating itself...and once again Jeep is the jewel in the crown.

[camaro_freak]

Originally Posted by Bravada

I think the truth is in the middle:

Sebring and Avenger
Marchionne repeatedly said that Sterling Heights WILL be closed. This would indicate mean the underperforming sedans will simply be cut, which is why Sebring's MCE was extremely limited and both models currently exist in one trim level each. The cost of significantly increasing sales and margins on the JS cars might simply be far too high for the gamble to pay off, as the competition in the segment is stifling.

Interesting - so are the convertibles made there as well?

The article said nothing about the fate of the convertible model.

[Bravada]

Interesting - so are the convertibles made there as well?

The Covertibles are made in Sterling Heights. There is a separate sub-line where the convertible roofs are assembled into vert bodies:



For some reason I started thinking there is a lot to indicate Fiat is studying moving the line to Belvidere along with Sebring Convertible assembly, but maybe it's just me and not Sergio.

OTOH, Chrysler might just as well cancel the entire Sebring line, the papers simply forget there are the cabrios too and they say "Sebring sedan" when they mean the entire line.

[PAULSTS1]

I admit agreement in the merger of Chrysler and FIAT from the beginning because IMO a European partner might be just what Chrysler would require to become a relevant brand after its unfortunate marriages to Daimler Benz and Cerberus. While a fan of the Dodge Caravan and recognizing the decades of leadership in the creation and execution of World Class family transports, which made it a core asset of Chrysler; because of the lack of intimate knowledge of the marketing strategy of FIAT Sp.A I choose to temporarily, limit comment until pertinent information has been communicated.

However, I am pleased that the Dodge Charger and Challenger will be enhanced and offered, as these are two of my favorite models offered by Chrysler. Finally, in regards to the soon to be canceled Nitro, who knows perhaps if I had a grandson the Nitro might have made a great birthday gift--I like the way it looks.