Month of Reckoning: Civic, Corolla, Camry & Accord outsell F-series and Silverado

[xioix]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Hey IGOR ( or anybody else ) - you got the MATRIX/COROLLA and Camry/ 'Camry' Solara breakdown ?

The Civic's accomplishment is bigger than it looks - somewhere between oh, say, approx 35 - 60% of the Corollas 'numbers' here are the MATRIX.

You have got to be delusional if you think the Matrix sells anywhere near that amount

The Solara sells maybe as many units as the hybrid

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by xioix

You have got to be delusional if you think the Matrix sells anywhere near that amount

Go ahead post up a number - we can go from there.

The Solara sells maybe as many units as the hybrid

Maybe, maybe not, it was a strange result on the hybrid in a definitely down and strange month.

The really cool thing is that counting the vehicles exactly as toyota markets them ie 4 separate models would knock them down on the standings and probably put the Corolla and the MATRIX below the F series.

Pick up the June 2008 MT and see what Toyota said about the 'new' Corolla's low initial take rate.

[xioix]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Go ahead post up a number - we can go from there.



Maybe, maybe not, it was a strange result on the hybrid in a definitely down and strange month.

The really cool thing is that counting the vehicles exactly as toyota markets them ie 4 separate models would knock them down on the standings and probably put the Corolla and the MATRIX below the F series.

Pick up the June 2008 MT and see what Toyota said about the 'new' Corolla's low initial take rate.

Pick up a Matrix or Solara owners manual it will say Corolla Matrix, and Camry Solara on it, only difference between Camry Solara and Honda Accord Coupe is that Toyota calls it the Solara and Honda calls it a coupe

We'll use 2007-2006 MY rates, because 2008s are not out yet, from automotive fleet

Corolla Sedan sold 320689, while the Corolla Martix sold 53195
which would mean that total sales for the Corolla line would be 373884, and Matrix would be ~1.4%

Camry Sedan sold 385216, while the Camry Solara sold 19397
which would be 404613, which would mean the Solara sold about ~4.7% of the Camry line

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by xioix

Camry Sedan sold 385216, while the Camry Solara sold 19397
which would be 404613, which would mean the Solara sold about ~20% of the Camry line

4.7% according to those numbers.

[xioix]

Originally Posted by vcs2600

4.7% according to those numbers.

Oh, I might have punched in the numbers wrong or whatever in excel

[AMERICA 123]

Well, back in March 2008 the Solara represented (close approx) about 22.5% of the Camry count.

Roughly from memory it was something like 9,xxx out of 40,xxx.

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Should both pairs be split ?

I think yes - really a no brainer because of both how Toyota markets them and refers to them separately in their press releases and so forth.

Very importantly, Toyota directly refers to them as separate models and in anything but a sales tally lists and counts them separately as well.

That takes care of it right there, period.

However, an additional point is how they are badged.

When Edmund's ran the article in March about the Accord being number one for the month of March 2008, the point was made that both the MATRIX uses no Corolla badging nor does the Solara use Camry badging which at least is logical given the way they are marketed.

Given how 'strange' certain aspects of Toyotas 'calender' and operations in other aspects have been plus the market in MAY itself, without the numbers its all speculation.

What is not speculation is that properly breaking out the 4 models individually would've definitely placed the Camry and the Corolla lower - obviously the Solara and MATRIX would've also represented smaller numbers as well.

Then, depending on those numbers you would see a new ranking and almost for certain at least three of those four Toyota models did not outsell the F series - possibly that applies to all four.

The one thats incontrovertably had a big success -for the month - really in front of them all by a usable amount is the Civic.

Again, as noted elsewhere , keep in mind its at #5 for YTD - after this really stronge MAY showing.

If I was a Honda or Ford guy or an automotive journalist, I'd go get those numbers for the MATRIX and Solara.

The funny thing is if this market keeps goin' the way shes not goin' Toyota IN THE FUTURE may want to bust out the MATRIX - IT'LL LOOK BETTER - POSSIBLY IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by xioix

Pick up a Matrix or Solara owners manual it will say Corolla Matrix, and Camry Solara on it,

Ok, suppose that's the way it is - for the 2008s and 2009s (MYR) under discussion here. The problem with that is thats never traditionally been a criteria for determining separate models. And thank goodness its never been, there were years in the past where an OEM would put out a truly generic owners manual for say, the whole passenger car line - with or without all the models listed. Then there has been some 'funny' owners manual stuff concerning USA/Canada.

-only difference between Camry Solara and Honda Accord Coupe is that Toyota calls it the Solara and Honda calls it a coupe

First of all, its not up to Honda to decide it either. Second, its not exactly the same situation although its close. So far it looks like Hondas right on the line or infact did step over while with the Camry/Solara and THE Corolla/MATRIX Toyota did for sure. Worth pointing out, it figures its these two with the problem.

We'll use 2007-2006 MY rates, because 2008s are not out yet, from automotive fleet

Normally there would be something that could be done here with these numbers. Problem is MAY was not normal.

Corolla Sedan sold 320689, while the Corolla Martix sold 53195
which would mean that total sales for the Corolla line would be 373884, and Matrix would be ~1.4%

Ok, but thats 14.23% not 1.4%- and that makes a big dirrerence. Again, I'd be careful about using it - maybe work and it may not - too much stuff flying around in the air .

Camry Sedan sold 385216, while the Camry Solara sold 19397
which would be 404613, which would mean the Solara sold about ~4.7% of the Camry line

Well, same as all the above - and above that - but now you also have a very high seasonality factor to deal with in regards to the Solara '2dr' and convertible on top of which the weather was weird for much of the country during MAY .......... soooo - good luck with that isn't going to get it.

MAY 2008 'should've' been a big month for Solara - 'Spring' is in the air etc - but that doesn't mean it was.

[vcs2600]

AFAIK, there's no rules which govern this sales reporting, its purely done as a service for investors. Since Toyota is profitable, they have more leeway to pull tricks like this, versus GM who is under constant investor scrutiny. Plus even with these models lumped together the overall figures are still excellent.

Another example of this is Apple Computer, who used to report detailed model-line sales, but when their stock shot up, they now only report gross numbers. Tough toodles.

I guess you could buy some Toyota shares and somehow complain at the meeting, but otherwise I don't see the point in bitching about it.