Mercedes Admits Quality Problems

**BigAls87Z28** · 02-13-2004, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Mercedes-Benz has fared badly in recent owner surveys, such as the AutoMarxx report prepared by the ADAC, Germany's largest automotive club, or the JD Power & Associates durability study.

http://www.automobilemag.com/news/news_09_2/

SmallBlock · 02-13-2004, 07:32 AM

What a total shame. What amount of arrogance leads you to say that "there is no specific quality survey or timeline the company is citing as a target and attaining No. 1 status is more of an internal commitment"? Basically they're saying we'll give you quality when we are good and ready.

Nice.

I love this part too:

"Who is in the lead always has the biggest problems."

Do they honestly believe they are leading edge? Wow.

I can't wait to see if this shows up in Automobile's print copy. This would severely damage their perspective of the automotive pecking order. I bet it doesn't. The reality is just too hard to take.

69nova · 02-13-2004, 09:32 AM

Consumer's Reports gave them a big, black meatball in the reliabilty section. So, some of the mags are not scared to call it as they see it.
What is worse is that so many people still hold onto the Mercedes being thee car to have in spite of what they hear and read. It shows what power a brand name has.

At the Chicago Auto Show, they actually had a used car for sale. One with 48,000 miles on it for 30K. Reading the spec sheet, it was a certified car meaning a one year warranty. Most of the people were dumbfounded when they realized what they were looking at.

powervette · 02-13-2004, 12:38 PM

:mf_boff:

I know the secret of M-B reliability
my father is an owner of 2002 SL and...
till today he made only 3500 KM !

He keeps it in garage because every time there is even one cloud in the sky he drives his Grand Cherokee.
And he bregs about the fact that nothing is broken till today!

PS.(don't blame me that I didn't made him buying XLR-they are not sold here

)

tgagneguam · 02-13-2004, 02:02 PM

Somehow I don't think Fujio Cho and gang are all that worried that Mercedes plans to be tops in in quality. In fact, I'm not so sure anyone cares.

Hearing Germans speak about their engineering prowess makes me think of Charlie Brown's teacher: "Wah wah wahwah wah." That's all most people hear.

DCL · 02-13-2004, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Hearing Germans speak about their engineering prowess makes me think of Charlie Brown's teacher: "Wah wah wahwah wah." That's all most people hear.

I still remember my old high school auto shop teacher saything this about German engineering: German cars cost an arm and a leg to fix because they are designed with the attitude that nothing will ever go wrong.

Looks like this arrogance still exists to some degree.

**mgescuro** · 02-13-2004, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgagneguam@Feb 13 2004, 02:02 PM
Hearing Germans speak about their engineering prowess makes me think of Charlie Brown's teacher: "Wah wah wahwah wah." That's all most people hear.

"The more the overtake the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain."
That's German cars in a nutshell. Very well built. Lots of cutting edge technology... but soooooooo much can go wrong now. One little glitch can put your car in the shop for a week.

Toyota's not worried. They've taken a decade to hash out their quality and production issues. They dont have anything to fear from any auto manufacturer in the world.

desmo9 · 02-13-2004, 09:33 PM

Toyota's been having their day in the sun, too. They've been plagued by alot of quality glitches lately. The prevailing theories fall into three camps, and may explain Mercedes' problems, too.

1) They build more and more vehicles away from the henhouse, and perhaps the American workers can't get it together (literally and figuratively). Honda has gone on record several times as saying Marysville Accords have better quality than the Japanese-built Accords. But the Alabama-produced M-class program been plagued with glitches.

2) Many more components are outsourced. Toyota has a rather dedicated supply base, such as Denso, but Mercedes (like most OEMs) has gone shopping to save a buck or two. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.

3) They are using more platforms with more vehicle derivatives. Instead of focusing on just Camry and Corolla, now there are minivans, pickups, and several utes. The big 3 have oft used the excuse that more varieties gives you alot more to juggle. Not an extremely convincing excuse, but it has some merit. Probably the biggest factor in Toyota's slide.

Neither company has a penchant for complacency, or that would be a decided #4.

yoblues · 02-13-2004, 09:38 PM

German auto reliability was always a myth. Plus even a Hundai drives better than a Benz in snow. Wouldn't it be great to see Caddy maul them?

jro4566 · 02-13-2004, 11:33 PM

Interestingly, Mercedes also said right after that they vow to become the best in reliability and quality in the coming years. Do I think they can pull it off? Definitely. A brand that prestigious and expensive definitely has the resources to put their reliability/quality ahead of Cadillac, Lexus, and Infiniti.

tgagneguam · 02-13-2004, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RCtennis3811@Feb 14 2004, 04:33 AM
Interestingly, Mercedes also said right after that they vow to become the best in reliability and quality in the coming years. Do I think they can pull it off? Definitely. A brand that prestigious and expensive definitely has the resources to put their reliability/quality ahead of Cadillac, Lexus, and Infiniti.

So they're "choosing" to be below industry average in quality because...? I'm not so sure I follow the argument. Talk is cheap; by 2010, everyone's quality will have improved, and I would bet big cash that Mercedes won't be among the top three in quality.

jro4566 · 02-13-2004, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tgagneguam+Feb 14 2004, 04:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (tgagneguam @ Feb 14 2004, 04:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RCtennis3811@Feb 14 2004, 04:33 AM
Interestingly, Mercedes also said right after that they vow to become the best in reliability and quality in the coming years.  Do I think they can pull it off?  Definitely.  A brand that prestigious and expensive definitely has the resources to put their reliability/quality ahead of Cadillac, Lexus, and Infiniti.

So they're "choosing" to be below industry average in quality because...? I'm not so sure I follow the argument. Talk is cheap; by 2010, everyone's quality will have improved, and I would bet big cash that Mercedes won't be among the top three in quality. [/b][/quote]
Sorry if you misunderstood me...

I meant that because of their currently BELOW AVERAGE quality, they vowed to make it better in the coming years (2005>>)

yoblues · 03-07-2004, 01:50 PM

Mabey they will improve and mabey not. Occasionally someone blasts the UAW on this forum for causing problems. The UAW is nothing compared to European Unions who are socialists. Europe is starting to have lots of problems trying to compeat in the global economy that you do not read about over here.

Canuck · 03-07-2004, 04:12 PM

I wonder why Benz has such a good reputation when anyone who has owned one will tell you the fortune they have spent on maintaining a Benz. On a side note I know one local dealer who has a elevator to move broken Benz within the dealership so the public won't see that a Mercedes doesn't always work.

02-13-2004, 07:32 AM	#2 (permalink)
SmallBlock 3.8 Liter V6 Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 380	What a total shame. What amount of arrogance leads you to say that "there is no specific quality survey or timeline the company is citing as a target and attaining No. 1 status is more of an internal commitment"? Basically they're saying we'll give you quality when we are good and ready. Nice. I love this part too: "Who is in the lead always has the biggest problems." Do they honestly believe they are leading edge? Wow. I can't wait to see if this shows up in Automobile's print copy. This would severely damage their perspective of the automotive pecking order. I bet it doesn't. The reality is just too hard to take. __________________ -- Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.

02-13-2004, 12:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
powervette 4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of Europe Posts: 2,208	:mf_boff: I know the secret of M-B reliability my father is an owner of 2002 SL and... till today he made only 3500 KM ! He keeps it in garage because every time there is even one cloud in the sky he drives his Grand Cherokee. And he bregs about the fact that nothing is broken till today! PS.(don't blame me that I didn't made him buying XLR-they are not sold here ) __________________

02-13-2004, 11:33 PM	#10 (permalink)
jro4566 7.0 Liter LS7 V8 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Dallas, Texas Drives: 2001 Oldsmobile Silhouette 2003 Suzuki XL-7 2005 Posts: 5,050	Interestingly, Mercedes also said right after that they vow to become the best in reliability and quality in the coming years. Do I think they can pull it off? Definitely. A brand that prestigious and expensive definitely has the resources to put their reliability/quality ahead of Cadillac, Lexus, and Infiniti. __________________ 2007 BMW 328i. Black sapphire metallic. Terra leather. Poplar wood. Automatic trans. Xenon adaptive headlights. BMW Assist. Bluetooth. Premium package. Heated seats. iDrive navigation system. Rear sonar. Comfort access. LOGIC7 surround sound. Sirius. 18" BMW wheels. Rear spoiler. 2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara Luxury. Black onyx pearl. Beige leather. 4WD. Chrome hood vents, mirror covers, exhaust. Silver grille, taillight trim. Brushed metal bumper protector. Running boards.

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02-13-2004, 09:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
69nova 4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 2,287	Consumer's Reports gave them a big, black meatball in the reliabilty section. So, some of the mags are not scared to call it as they see it. What is worse is that so many people still hold onto the Mercedes being thee car to have in spite of what they hear and read. It shows what power a brand name has. At the Chicago Auto Show, they actually had a used car for sale. One with 48,000 miles on it for 30K. Reading the spec sheet, it was a certified car meaning a one year warranty. Most of the people were dumbfounded when they realized what they were looking at.

02-13-2004, 02:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
tgagneguam 7.0 Liter LS7 V8 Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 6,936	Somehow I don't think Fujio Cho and gang are all that worried that Mercedes plans to be tops in in quality. In fact, I'm not so sure anyone cares. Hearing Germans speak about their engineering prowess makes me think of Charlie Brown's teacher: "Wah wah wahwah wah." That's all most people hear.

02-13-2004, 09:33 PM	#8 (permalink)
desmo9 5.3 Liter LS4 V8 Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 3,721	Toyota's been having their day in the sun, too. They've been plagued by alot of quality glitches lately. The prevailing theories fall into three camps, and may explain Mercedes' problems, too. 1) They build more and more vehicles away from the henhouse, and perhaps the American workers can't get it together (literally and figuratively). Honda has gone on record several times as saying Marysville Accords have better quality than the Japanese-built Accords. But the Alabama-produced M-class program been plagued with glitches. 2) Many more components are outsourced. Toyota has a rather dedicated supply base, such as Denso, but Mercedes (like most OEMs) has gone shopping to save a buck or two. Penny-wise, pound-foolish. 3) They are using more platforms with more vehicle derivatives. Instead of focusing on just Camry and Corolla, now there are minivans, pickups, and several utes. The big 3 have oft used the excuse that more varieties gives you alot more to juggle. Not an extremely convincing excuse, but it has some merit. Probably the biggest factor in Toyota's slide. Neither company has a penchant for complacency, or that would be a decided #4.

02-13-2004, 09:38 PM	#9 (permalink)
yoblues 5.3 Liter LS4 V8 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,388	German auto reliability was always a myth. Plus even a Hundai drives better than a Benz in snow. Wouldn't it be great to see Caddy maul them?

03-07-2004, 01:50 PM	#13 (permalink)
yoblues 5.3 Liter LS4 V8 Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 3,388	Mabey they will improve and mabey not. Occasionally someone blasts the UAW on this forum for causing problems. The UAW is nothing compared to European Unions who are socialists. Europe is starting to have lots of problems trying to compeat in the global economy that you do not read about over here.

03-07-2004, 04:12 PM	#14 (permalink)
Canuck 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: May 2003 Location: Vancouver Drives: 2005 CTS 3.6, 2005 Envoy Posts: 1,957	I wonder why Benz has such a good reputation when anyone who has owned one will tell you the fortune they have spent on maintaining a Benz. On a side note I know one local dealer who has a elevator to move broken Benz within the dealership so the public won't see that a Mercedes doesn't always work.

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