Israel backs Palo Alto man's electric car plan

[mgescuro]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MN1F112F1P.DTL



Israel backs Palo Alto man's electric car plan

Shai Agassi, a Silicon Valley entrepreneur, pledges that he can beat the spiraling cost of gasoline with the world's first mass-produced electric car.
In January, Israel's government endorsed the Palo Alto businessman's ambitious joint venture between his startup company - Project Better Place - and Renault-Nissan.

Agassi says he raised $200 million to get the $500 million dollar project, which will include a network of charging and battery-exchange stations by 2010, off the ground.
Project Better Place also has signed an agreement with Denmark to begin a similar operation by 2011. In Denmark, a pioneer in developing wind power, batteries are expected to be recharged using wind-powered turbines.

Agassi, a 39-year-old Israeli, co-founded Project Better Place after he quit his post in 2007 as president of the products and technology group for the German software giant SAP AG. Although some insiders say he left after losing out in a power struggle to become SAP's chief executive, Agassi says he left to focus on "issues that are important to me," including alternative energy and the future of Israel.

140 miles on a charge

Agassi is banking on his electric-powered sedan revolutionizing life on the roads, cleaning up the environment and reducing dependence on oil. The cars are expected to have a range of up to 140 miles per charge and a top speed of 68 mph - the speed limit in Israel.

Last month, he invited reporters to test-drive a prototype that looks a lot like the Renault Megane, a four-door sedan. The car is noticeably quiet and has no exhaust pipe, an electric socket in place of a gas cap and a dashboard gauge that measures the charge of the vehicle's 450-pound lithium-ion battery.

In the United States, Hawaii Gov. Linda Lingle has said she is interested in her state becoming the first to embrace the electric-car network. Mayor Gavin Newsom also has reportedly expressed interest in making San Francisco the first U.S. metropolis to place electric cars on city roads.

Agassi said that because most rides are less than 100 miles, drivers can recharge batteries at home, at work or at thousands of charging points throughout Israel. On longer trips, they can exchange batteries in a five-minute operation at about 200 "swap stations."

"We have a second battery for every driver in the swap stations. It's waiting for you in case you need it. You don't need to carry it with you in the trunk," Agassi said.
Moreover, Nissan's global product planning chief, Tom Lane, has said his firm will soon announce a battery breakthrough, one that could increase driving range to around 200 miles per charge while recharging in as little as 20 minutes.

The cars are also expected to be more economical than a typical gas-driven sedan due in part to tax breaks from the Israeli and Danish governments. Agassi also says the development of the lithium-ion battery has significantly lowered the cost of electricity at a time when oil prices are soaring. Gas currently costs $10 a gallon in Israel and more than $8 a gallon in Denmark.

"Within a decade, the cost of energy for a single year of fuel supply for a combustion car should cost more than the cost of energy for an electric car's entire life, even when taking the cost of battery into consideration," Agassi said.

As with cellular phones, where the service providers install an infrastructure that allows users to make calls and send text, Project Better Place plans to charge $550 a month and provide 18,000 miles a year for the use of the batteries and charging and swap stations. The customer doesn't own the battery - the cars are designed to have easily removable battery packs that can be exchanged.

More at Link

[Bravada]

I am not reading that much written in garbly serifed font, but that's a Renault Megane Classic - didn't know Carlos Ghosn is a "Palo Alto man".

[DemonKnightDK]

GM needs to buy into that company if they can get a battery pack that will hit 200 miles and charge in 20 minutes. thats 5 times more milage than what the volt has been expected to be able to do. It seems nissan may already have bought in, so we could see a new Electric Versa perhaps? Versa-Type E

[Bravada]

OK, I've read it - only because Marc posted it. It's still a Renault Megane Classic.

And it's your regular electric car, nothing revolutionary, with all the traditional drawbacks and all, the only difference is that the guy who promotes it is a good-looking influential Jewish former, I mean fired executive of a high-profile company (not known for being particularly innovative, btw).

This man is perhaps marginally more credible than Malcolm Bricklin. But I'd rather bet on Yugo.

[Bravada]

Originally Posted by DemonKnightDK

GM needs to buy into that company if they can get a battery pack that will hit 200 miles and charge in 20 minutes. thats 5 times more milage than what the volt has been expected to be able to do. It seems nissan may already have bought in, so we could see a new Electric Versa perhaps? Versa-Type E

Originally Posted by article

Moreover, Nissan's global product planning chief, Tom Lane, has said his firm will soon announce a battery breakthrough, one that could increase driving range to around 200 miles per charge while recharging in as little as 20 minutes.

The company is called Nissan. Recently, it tried to buy into GM.

The cars are also expected to be more economical than a typical gas-driven sedan due in part to tax breaks from the Israeli and Danish governments.

Will the equivalent of fuel consumption readout be calculated with tax breaks? Come on, that way GM could easily make a Chevrolet Silverado "more economical" by talking the government into tax breaks (which I believe they are incessantly pursuing).

[logansowner]

How can it be worse than paying $10 for gas? In Canada we are closing in on $6 and that's about enough for us. Any real advancement usually comes from the public, all big companies have an agenda of some sort that prevents them from accomplishing much of anything. How can this be a bad venture?

[eb110americana]

Project Better Place plans to charge $550 a month and provide 18,000 miles a year for the use of the batteries and charging and swap stations.

Gas costs nearly $5/gal for premium here in LA now. That means I can buy 110 gallons of gas per month for that price ($550), or over 7 tankfuls--which is more than I'd use. Even at $10 a gallon, that's nearly 4 tanks of gas, which is still more than I use unless on a roadtrip--where this car would be useless until stations are available everywhere. Plus you have to buy the car and pay for the electricity to charge it at home too. No thank you. I'm not paying $6,600 per year for the right to use your battery network.

I thought well of the project until I got to that last part. This is interesting though:

Volt:
400 Lb. Li-ion battery pack = 40 mi.

Project Better Place electric car:
450 Lb. Li-ion battery pack = 140 mi.

The cars are expected to have a range of up to 140 miles per charge and a top speed of 68 mph - the speed limit in Israel.
...
The car is noticeably quiet and has no exhaust pipe, an electric socket in place of a gas cap and a dashboard gauge that measures the charge of the vehicle's 450-pound lithium-ion battery.

This all remains to be proven though.

[geozinger]

As far as electric cars go, pay attention to where they are typically promoted...
Warm weather areas. You never see one of these things launched in Siberia, for example.

I still have my doubts about an all electric auto, at least in areas that get significant cold temperatures for extended periods of time, like we do in the upper Midwest.

This is one of the reasons why I think that the Volt will be superior to all electric vehicles. Let's face it, a few weeks in 20 degree F weather, a few good sized hills and those batteries will be screaming for mercy. With the Volt, you have a chance to keep going, the all electric ones, well... Let's hope that AAA towing stays inexpensive.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Originally Posted by geozinger

As far as electric cars go, pay attention to where they are typically promoted...
Warm weather areas. You never see one of these things launched in Siberia, for example.

Don't forget it is Israel. What does Israel not have - oil. Who has oil - countries that Israel doesn't like

[Fusion2.3H]

A few things to note, since I have done research on his company beforehand.

He has refused to publish his report that the Deutsch Bank analysts approved, even though they claim it "verifies" his claims that it is more efficient then a regular car. Yet, when you model his claims against a Prius, Diesel Jetta, Focus, Civic, or fuel-efficient ICE car, you find that on a total life cycle cost basis it is still cheaper to buy an ICE vehicle compared to the PBP model.

As a few have already pointed out, swapping stations are capital intensive and require the vehicle to be designed to handle the battery swapping. That automatically nixes the Volt, Prius, Tesla, Phoenix, and others on the market. Your only choice is a Renault if you live outside the U.S. market or a Nissan in the U.S market.

On the $550/month plan you are required to sign up for a 5-year contract. Afterwards you own the vehicle, but heres the catch you don't own the battery therefore in order to run your car you have to invest in a new battery.

The major OEMS, Electric Power Research Institute, CalCars, and suppliers have come out against this plan. As Agassi has said himself "The United States market will be a significant challenge". Each station will be several million to install, along with hiring technically trained workers to maintain the stations and handle the batteries.

Instead I recommend looking at Elektromotive's model in the London area. They have successfully deployed over 300 stations in the metro london region, and they are compatible with all EV/PHEV vehicles. Customers sign up for a RFID tag and special cord, and they receive electricity from any poles in the city. That's a better deal for the customers.

Note- I believe the actual range in testing was 127 miles according to Nissan or NEC of Japan (producer of the battery).

[jry]

Am i right here? 18,000 miles of battery for $6600.00 annually, equalling over 36 cents per mile? if i get 20 MPG and gas is 4 bucks, thats 20 cents per mile.

[jry]

Originally Posted by Smaart Aas Saabr

Don't forget it is Israel. What does Israel not have - oil. Who has oil - countries that Israel doesn't like

Look up a company called Ness Energy. They are sure that Israel has oil.

[scotted73]

It seems that there are many groups who are offering some sort of conversion kit for regular cars. The ones that require little infrastucture like a place to plug in at home or work seem to be the better option. Also not having to give up cargo or people carry capacity is a plus.

In Seattle a Company called AFS Trinity Power converted a couple of Saturn VUEs to show off its technology.
http://www.afstrinity.com/

I wonder if this is going to be the route to offer the consumer what they want and/or need to reduce fuel charges. Charging at home and still having the support of a gas station if a longer trip is needed.
As others have pointed out, cold weather can have an adverse affect on electric only cars.

[Fusion2.3H]

Originally Posted by jry

Am i right here? 18,000 miles of battery for $6600.00 annually, equalling over 36 cents per mile? if i get 20 MPG and gas is 4 bucks, thats 20 cents per mile.

That price/mile includes battery, electricity, and the car, according to Deutsch Bank. I don't know if it includes maintenance, tax, title, delivery, handling, insurance, appreciation in electricity costs, importing costs to the united states, and the discount rate.

[goblue]

Great idea for Israel or Hawaii, but we have a gas infrastructure. Range extending motors makes much more sense. Why? Because a 40 mile range captures 85% of driving. Add charging stations at work / businesses and the 85% number goes even higher. Would we have this problem if we all used 85% less gasoline? No. We wouldn't. We could handle that with domestic sources + ethanol. And the kicker is the range will improve over time.

I'm still thinking small batteries with range extending motors is the better way. Americans still want 500 mile range.