Hyundai Can Do It, What's GM's Excuse?

[TriShield]

This appeared in Autoweek, reprinted from Automotive News.

http://www.autoweek.com/news.cms?newsId=103331

Originally Posted by AutoNews

The Sonata has found its way onto shopping lists that include the Japanese Big 3: the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord and Nissan Altima.

What's more, Hyundai is winning an increasing share of those battles

Originally Posted by AutoNews

"Our secret weapon is a $21,000 car," says John Krafcik, Hyundai's vice president of product development and strategic planning. "We are grabbing four-cylinder Camry and Accord intenders."

Originally Posted by AutoNews

To keep transaction prices high, Hyundai is using incentives judiciously.

There is a $1,000 rebate coupon for loyal Hyundai customers, which accounts for about 25 percent of Sonata sales.

There also is a $1,000 coupon used as a lure for owners of aging Camrys, Accords, Civics and Corollas.

Originally Posted by AutoNews

But it has been the car itself, and not the deal, that has drawn the increased traffic, Krafcik says.

The number of Sonata shoppers seen at auto dealerships has increased 87 percent

Originally Posted by AutoNews

For now, Hyundai is gaining most of its new blood from domestic brands, despite their "employee pricing" tactics.

Hyundai has made an excellent and contemporary car, priced it competitively, and is successfully getting cross-shopped with the competition and garnering glowing reviews from the media.

Why can't the world's largest car company incapable of doing the same thing? Why isn't the Malibu, and G6 of the same caliber as the new Sonata?

Hyundai used to be the worst manufacturer selling here, now they're exceptional. Even their Kia brand has good products.

They've turned their ship around in record time, they are making appealing products, and they're starting to match the Japanese in quality. The new Sonata even beat the Japanese in Edmund's latest family sedan comparison.

What's GM's excuse?

[Vintalage]

That's a good question. Nsap, care to explain?

[nsap]

Originally Posted by Vintalage

That's a good question. Nsap, care to explain?

I wouldn't jump on the Hyundai bandwagon just yet. The new Sonata has already been recalled once (36,000 of them).

I'm not going to deny that the Sonata is a great car- it is, I'm not that blind-sided. Since you always seem to think that the G6 is lacking as a sedan, why is it that it outsold the Sonata?

G6- Sept. 13,422/88,587 (63% of those buyers are conquest from other companies)
Sonata- 10,353/85,620


Sure the G6 has the addition of a coupe model, but that is no different than comparing Camry sales with Malibu, since Toyota adds Sorola and Camry sales together.

I do however feel that the Impala is a better overall car than the Sonata.

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by nsap

I wouldn't jump on the Hyundai bandwagon just yet. The new Sonata has already been recalled once (36,000 of them).

I'm not going to deny that the Sonata is a great car- it is, I'm not that blind-sided. Since you always seem to think that the G6 is lacking as a sedan, why is it that it outsold the Sonata?

G6- Sept. 13,422/88,587 (63% of those buyers are conquest from other companies)
Sonata- 10,353/85,620


Sure the G6 has the addition of a coupe model, but that is no different than comparing Camry sales with Malibu, since Toyota adds Sorola and Camry sales together.

I do however feel that the Impala is a better overall car than the Sonata.

i dont know why GM cant do it, the sonata is what the malibu should be, quality materials, good fuel efficiency, decent build quality, quiet, all the things that the camry was hyundai made it better, while GM introduced the malibu with hard plastics and refinement problems. hyundai aimed to beat the camry and accord, and im sure the malibu wasnt designed to do that, its not as quiet, refined or built as well. with its cars GM needs to match the imports as well offer some other stuff on top of that to offset the perception that toyotas are better.

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by nsap

I wouldn't jump on the Hyundai bandwagon just yet. The new Sonata has already been recalled once (36,000 of them).

I'm not going to deny that the Sonata is a great car- it is, I'm not that blind-sided. Since you always seem to think that the G6 is lacking as a sedan, why is it that it outsold the Sonata?

G6- Sept. 13,422/88,587 (63% of those buyers are conquest from other companies)
Sonata- 10,353/85,620


Sure the G6 has the addition of a coupe model, but that is no different than comparing Camry sales with Malibu, since Toyota adds Sorola and Camry sales together.

I do however feel that the Impala is a better overall car than the Sonata.

I'm not going to defend the Sonata or the G6. However, I find that this type of attitude might be the demise of GM. Despite the fact that the Sonata is a potential threat, many people like to dimiss it, and say that nothing is wrong with the G6, the Impala is just as good or better, so let's not worry. This type of sitting still attitude is ultimately what's going to kill GM.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

i dont know why GM cant do it, the sonata is what the malibu should be, quality materials, good fuel efficiency, decent build quality, quiet, all the things that the camry was hyundai made it better, while GM introduced the malibu with hard plastics and refinement problems. hyundai aimed to beat the camry and accord, and im sure the malibu wasnt designed to do that, its not as quiet, refined or built as well. with its cars GM needs to match the imports as well offer some other stuff on top of that to offset the perception that toyotas are better.

This is the type of perception that is killing GM. The Malibu is at the top of its class in terms of fuel economy- look it up. Malibu is one of the lowest-priced vehicles in its class as well. While some people on here refuse to give JD Power's the light of day, the Malibu was the winner of the inital quality award in the midsize segment.

I'm not sure if you've ever been in a Malibu. Nearly every trim piece is soft to the touch, with the exception of the center stack.

Originally Posted by a_v_s

I'm not going to defend the Sonata or the G6. However, I find that this type of attitude might be the demise of GM. Despite the fact that the Sonata is a potential threat, many people like to dimiss it, and say that nothing is wrong with the G6, the Impala is just as good or better, so let's not worry. This type of sitting still attitude is ultimately what's going to kill GM.

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post. The Sonata is a great car, and it is selling- well, and it likely is taking sales from GM (doesn't surprise me), but I'm not going to sit here and say that GM doesn't have **************** when it comes to the midsize segment. That is just not true. The Malibu, Impala, and G6 all compete very well with the import competition. Could they be better? OF COURSE, but I honestly feel that the G6 and Impala can take on the Sonata. Give me reasons why to think different, I have an open-mind on this.

[AdmiralViscen]

G6- Sept. 13,422/88,587 (63% of those buyers are conquest from other companies)
Sonata- 10,353/85,620

Sonata YTD sales are dangerously close, considering the size of their dealer network, brand name recognition, 'newness' in the marketplace, and the fact that they were selling their old crappy model for a good chunk of 2005.

Is the G6 really taking 63% conquest sales? That's awesome. Can we get a breakdown of trade-ins by competitor?


Anyway, I think the Sonata can do what it does because Hyundai doesn't have the legacy costs, or the bad reputation GM has.

[Swahili]

Originally Posted by TriShield

Hyundai used to be the worst manufacturer selling here, now they're exceptional.

Point taken......Vintalage......when you're the worst and one of the smallest companies around, there are only two choices. Either sell up and get out of the business, or go up. GM's problem is that they sat idle for two many years when the competition from overseas wasn't serious and continued to sit idle while those companies made drastic changes and improvements. GM has been making strides to catch up over the past decade and I align my thoughts with nsap, that as of the last most recent years, GM can compete with any other manufacturer in the world. Initial quality and build quality are tops in the world, ask JD Power.

[rearden82]

Originally Posted by a_v_s

I'm not going to defend the Sonata or the G6. However, I find that this type of attitude might be the demise of GM. Despite the fact that the Sonata is a potential threat, many people like to dimiss it, and say that nothing is wrong with the G6, the Impala is just as good or better, so let's not worry. This type of sitting still attitude is ultimately what's going to kill GM.

EXACTLY. Making cars that are merely "good enough" isn't going to cut it anymore. GM has a lot to prove if they want to revamp their image. It doesn't matter what preexisting GM loyalists think of their cars. GM could release a car made out of plywood and tinfoil with an engine out of a riding lawnmower, and I think some people on these forums would think it's the best car ever made.

What matters is, most consumers still think GM vehicles are junk. When they see the ads that mention nothing more than the piles of incentives being offered, it certainly doesn't boost GM's image. When they sit in the car and see the mediocre interiors, it further reinforces their suspicions--they think "if this crap is what you see and feel, it must be a real POS under the sheet metal!" - it's really the opposite, but most consumers don't realize this of course. And finally, people (rightfully) think "if companies like Hyundai can offer a 10-year warranty and GM's quality is supposedly soooo great now, why can't they follow suit?"

Hyundai, in contrast, is making cars that look and feel very good, and they back their products with a 10-year warranty. So even people who are skeptical about their long-term reliability aren't too concerned.

GM is going to have to offer a similar warranty and beat Hyundai's (and everyone else's) committment to things like interior quality and overall refinement if they want to regain their former glory. It wouldn't have been so hard if they paid more attention to the competition 15 or 20 years ago, but now they have a LOT of catching up to do.

[Vintalage]

Originally Posted by nsap

I wouldn't jump on the Hyundai bandwagon just yet. The new Sonata has already been recalled once (36,000 of them).

I'm not going to deny that the Sonata is a great car- it is, I'm not that blind-sided. Since you always seem to think that the G6 is lacking as a sedan, why is it that it outsold the Sonata?

G6- Sept. 13,422/88,587 (63% of those buyers are conquest from other companies)
Sonata- 10,353/85,620


Sure the G6 has the addition of a coupe model, but that is no different than comparing Camry sales with Malibu, since Toyota adds Sorola and Camry sales together.

I do however feel that the Impala is a better overall car than the Sonata.

I'm not blind-sided either. The G6 is a capable car hindered by cost cutting, mediocre equipment and high price points. The powerplants aren't impressive either. My problem is that I know GM could have done alot more with this car, but they didn't. I want to see the extra effort but I just can't find it.

In terms of your comparision, I have a question. Are fleet sales factored into those numbers?

[a_v_s]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough in my first post. The Sonata is a great car, and it is selling- well, and it likely is taking sales from GM (doesn't surprise me), but I'm not going to sit here and say that GM doesn't have **************** when it comes to the midsize segment. That is just not true. The Malibu, Impala, and G6 all compete very well with the import competition. Could they be better? OF COURSE, but I honestly feel that the G6 and Impala can take on the Sonata. Give me reasons why to think different, I have an open-mind on this.

First, let me say that I never said GM didn't have ***** in the midsize segment. I just said that GM appears to be sitting on it's laurels.

The G6 is a nice looking car on the outside. I think the inside could use lots of help. Having never driven a Sonata, I can't comment about it's driving dynamics, but having driven many G6 and Impalas, (and owning a Grand Prix), I can comment on GM's offerings.

The GM cars are over-priced. The entry level models are priced fine, but the upper trim levels are over-priced. GM advertises the G6 as being better than the 4 cylinder accord, but they don't tell you that a G6 GT actually costs more than an Accord V6 w/Navi. I priced it myself and can vouch for that. A G6 GT when I priced it (without the panoramic roof), came to $28k and some change. An accord V6 with navi was $27k and some change.

For that 28k, you get the same engine and transmission, wheras the 27k in the Accord, gets you 244hp, a 5 speed automatic, and a touchscreen DVD navi unit. Something is wrong with this picture. I'm almost scared to think what a G6 GTP will sticker out to. Granted this was a year ago when I did this excersise, so I don't know how the pricing has changed for 06', but from what I hear, very little.

The Impala. I actually thought that was a bright spot. The interior dash is very nice. However, that steering wheel almost ruins it. It is so plain and bland. And the gear shifter could use some help too. These are minor nitpicks, but sometimes it's the little things, that can upset the flow of the other things, that makes for a ruined experience.

The Grand Prix GXP, (similar to Impala-SS), is a very nice car, but I think GM is asking for way too much money with it's loaded sticker of $36k. Sure, you get 303hp, but at this price point, you are competing with luxury marks like Acura, Infiniti, Lexus, and even GM's own Caddy. Pontiac is out of it's league at this price-point. The GXP/Impala-SS need to be loaded for $29,995. Not starting at $29,395 or whatever it is.

Getting back to the G6. I've never driven a 3900, so I can't comment on it. But the 3500 is not a smooth engine. It's a nice engine, with a decent amount of pep, but when it just doesn't have a smooth/refined feeling when you drive it.

Like I said, I've never driven a Sonata, so I can't say anything about it. However, the Sonata has other things going for it. It is actually EPA Full-size, so it is really more in line with the Impala than G6 in terms of space. It also offers things that are percieved as being more upscale, such as projector beam headlights, across the board standard dual front/side/curtain airbags, stability control, etc. The long warranty is just icing on the cake.

Hyundai is going for a homerun. GM is doing bunts and singles. Sure, they are scoring runs, but Hyundai is getting the crowd to stand up and cheer when they score.

Besides, I'm not sure about the numbers you posted. They seem misleading. I keep hearing how the imports are gaining market share. Acura has been posting record sales. Infiniti is seeing huge growth as well. But I keep hearing doom and gloom from the domestics. Something isn't adding up. I would be very happy if the G6 is doing well, but I don't get that feeling when I listen to others.

[yoblues]

The short answer is: Ricky Waggyboy and the overpaid Harvard MBA drunk he hired that is in charge of GM marketing strategy. He is easy to pick out. He is the loudmouth at the GM suit six martini lunch blaming the union workers because the cars are not selling.

[AdmiralViscen]

Yea, because having the union sapping 2 grand of money from each car's materials and options has nothing to do with GM's less than amazing vehicles.

[yoblues]

When you retire on a company pention there is supposed to be a retirement fund that takes care of the people that are retired. Did GM have a retirement fund? My wifes company did? Did GM pay into it's retirement fund and fund it adequately? My wifes company did. What is it about GM management that can't handle it's retirement funding and then negotiates stupid contracts? My wifes company has no problem meeting it's funding obligations. I guess the difference is my wifes company was run by competent people and GM was run by the six martini lunch crowd but it's all Joe in the paint shops fault.

[nsap]

Originally Posted by Vintalage

I'm not blind-sided either. The G6 is a capable car hindered by cost cutting, mediocre equipment and high price points. The powerplants aren't impressive either. My problem is that I know GM could have done alot more with this car, but they didn't. I want to see the extra effort but I just can't find it.

In terms of your comparision, I have a question. Are fleet sales factored into those numbers?

I could easily turn around and say the same about the Sonata. It doesn't offer remote start, no huge sunroof, no performance model, and no On Star (or any telecommunication service).

One needs to understand that there is just NO CAR that offers EVERYTHING everyone wants. Just about every company has features no one else has, like GM's Panaromic Sunroof and remote start. To me that is not a bad thing at all. If every car had all of the same features, it would be a boring market.

As for the comparison. You know as well as I do that they don't realease fleet numbers. Considering that 63% of G6 buyers are conquest, that only leaves 37% of current GM/ fleet buyers, and of course there are a lot of current GM buyers buying G6's. If I were to guess, I would say about 10% fleet for the G6. But I'm not positive on that number.