Is Huntsman Dead? Ford Rethinking It's RWD Future

[mkwelbornjr]

Why are the G8s selling so poorly? They are better than a Camry for the same price...its a no brainer.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by igor

OH c'mon do articles NOT do research anymore!?!?

Kuzack said: - we are rethinking the volume we can expect from the GRWD models
- we are rethingking how we will position the RWD models
- However the work was not even slowed down - it is going full steam ahead


(That besides the point that GRWD is NOT Huntsmen - and both are underway)

Ford might.may/will scale down its projected volume and might/may/will kill some models, but there are three already approved and they will come: Mustang, Falcon, MKR - and as long as Falcon stays RWD - GRWD is underway.

Hutsmen is a minor (relatively speaking) project - it is adjustment of Orion for the D35, and 5.0l V8, and replacement of Aus wiring harnesses and crontrols with new global ones. PERIOND _ DONE _ FINITO _VSIO - there is no more to Huntsmen than that - maybe minor sheetmetal and interior tweaks, but it is all technical, and hardpoints are all remaining.

GRWD is being built in Dearborn much the same as Zeta was in Australia - ground up as a new platform. Originally, 3 lengths were intended: Regular wheelbase for Falcon and MKR, Special Short wheelbase for Mustang, and Long Wheelbase for Lincoln Flagship (either future MKS, or a model above it) and return of Fairlane in AU. There were also rumors that future Taurus would use the LWB GRWD.

The Regular and Short wheelbase are safe and there is no way to kill them without killing Falcon. So the MKR, Mustang anf Flacon will come - and together there is enough volume to justify the expense. The Long wheelbase might be dropped, or some corners cut to reduce development costs - because the large sedan volume is dropping rapidly (see Mercedes S-class).

However Huntsmen is full speed ahead
GRWD is full speed ahead

PERIOD

Igor

Well that's comforting at least. And now I also have a good visual of what Huntsman is in relation to GRWD.

How long will Huntsman be used as an update to Orion? Will GRWD eventually supercede Huntsman Igor? If the project moves forward, can we expect to see GRWD used the world over?

Thanks Igor.

[QuadCoupe]

I'm tired of the goofy proportions too many FWD cars have.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by igor

I have heard none, and actually hope, FOrd leaves the large personal coupe market as dead as it is today - it will not come back - Mustang is the right size.

Igor

Here's the situtation with the Thunderbird.

Back in 2003-2004, Ford decided to junk DEW98 in favor of S197, and designed both a Lincoln LS and Ford Thunderbird for this new architecture. However, this is around the same time Lincoln decided it needed to get on board with AWD, and decided to design an LS replacement on D3, which later evolved into the MKS. With this development, there was no possible way to justify the volume needed to maintain a luxury-oriented S197 platform for the Thunderbird, and the plan was scrapped, leaving the Thunderbird a car designed, but without a platform.

I have heard that the Thunderbird is being revived on GRWD as a smaller and lighter 2-seat companion model to the Mustang. The design is done, and it's just a matter of tweaking it to fit on GRWD.

[BigThreeForever]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Here's the situtation with the Thunderbird.

Back in 2003-2004, Ford decided to junk DEW98 in favor of S197, and designed both a Lincoln LS and Ford Thunderbird for this new architecture. However, this is around the same time Lincoln decided it needed to get on board with AWD, and decided to design an LS replacement on D3, which later evolved into the MKS. With this development, there was no possible way to justify the volume needed to maintain a luxury-oriented S197 platform for the Thunderbird, and the plan was scrapped, leaving the Thunderbird a car designed, but without a platform.

I have heard that the Thunderbird is being revived on GRWD as a smaller and lighter 2-seat companion model to the Mustang. The design is done, and it's just a matter of tweaking it to fit on GRWD.

Wow! Thanks for that, Wescoent.

I always liked T-Birds and my wife is a twice former T-Bird owner and a big fan. I even love the name . . . . there are not many more all-American nameplates.

Here's hoping Ford can make the business case work.

[KingElvis]

Originally Posted by Aych Es Vee

since when do rwd cars use much more petrol than fwd ones????
wtf.

Being rwd isnt a fuel economy handicap....

Actually, it is.

Transverse engine mounting wastes less power than longitudinal.

[DemonKnightDK]

the original Thunderbirds were 2 seater corvette type cars IIRC.. could ford want to throw their hat into the corvette market?

[mikmak]

I would really like to see the Falcon head across the pond (in the Huntsman form) at least to test the waters. Even the Falcon Ute would probably sell better than the G8ST due to its far better load capacity. IMO the G8ST will sell within projections but its lack of useable hauling capability will preclude it from catching enough of the customers down sizing from trucks. It would be a real shame as most of the development is already done and it wouldn't be that much of a stretch. Consumption is actually pretty good and I would imagine that the V6 would make it even better.

I'll admit though that 2013 puts the GRWD program much further in the future than I thought.





I really think it would be a cheap(ish) ready made solution.

[mikmak]

Oh, here's the link.

[Akucaen]

Originally Posted by MN12Fan

Jeez, first GM and now Ford? Talk about the sky falling. Is it really so hard to make a fuel efficient RWD car? My 14 year old, two-ton Thunderbird consistently gets fuel economy in the high twenties on the highway (28MPG was my all-time best) and in the high teens in the city. I've gotten about 23MPG combined on each of my past two fill ups with about 60% highway driving. Am I to believe that the limit of fuel efficiency in RWD cars was reached in the mid-'90s? What a gyp.

That 1-2MPG can be the difference in class leading and class trailing [between FWD & RWD cars.]

[vcs2600]

Originally Posted by mkwelbornjr

Why are the G8s selling so poorly? They are better than a Camry for the same price...its a no brainer.

I don't think it selling poorly, they are limited by production capacity and its not a huge market segment to begin with.

Most Camrys sold are 4-bangers, that type of customer would never even bother looking at a G8.

[KingElvis]

Originally Posted by Akucaen

That 1-2MPG can be the difference in class leading and class trailing [between FWD & RWD cars.]

2mpg/20mpg is 10% - not an insignificant difference.

[1931Chevy]

the T-Birds rumor I heard about it too

[MN12Fan]

I think there's a lot of potential in a new Thunderbird, if it's done right. Hopefully Ford's learned from the mistakes with the previous generation, not to disparage it. As a two-seat roadster, the 2002-2005 DEW98 Thunderbird filled a niche that no other Ford did, then or now. I seem to recall that the car received positive reviews (including Motor Trend's Car of the Year) but there were some fundamental problems with the car that prevented it from catching on (it was the poorest selling generation Thunderbird in history as a matter of fact). On the positive end, it was reasonably well built, handled smoothly, and had a nostalgic flair for those interested in that kind of thing. On the bad side, to put it bluntly, it weighed well over 3,800lbs and offered performance that was noticeably inferior to a Mustang GT but with a base price that was at least $10,000 higher.

With a niche car like a two-seat roadster, it has to have one or more key selling points to be successful: bargain price, high performance, great fuel efficiency, or irresistible looks, if nothing else. As I mentioned already, the Thunderbird wasn't cheap and was outperformed by cars in Ford's own stable. On top of this, it had unremarkable fuel economy and required premium gas. Finally, though its retro styling might appeal to old timers, it is was unlikely to appeal to anyone who preferred something more modern. I would certainly stop short of calling it sexy.

With a new Thunderbird, I think Ford has little choice but to challenge established high performance two-seaters like the Corvette. It doesn't have to beat them outright, but it must be competitive, something the last Thunderbird was not. Personally, I would showcase Ford's EcoBoost technology for the Thunderbird and throw in an engine true to the MKR concept: a 400+ horsepower, 400+ lb-ft of torque, twin-turbo direct-injection 3.5L DOHC V6. Keep the car light (at least lighter than the current Mustang GT) and not only will it be fast but reasonably fuel efficienct too. Get the price under $40,000 and Ford could have a bargain alternative to the Corvette. Finally, it needs to be made sure that Ford makes the car look less like this:



And more like this:

[Slick_Holden]

Originally Posted by igor

THIS IS COMING


God I forgot just how HUGE the grille was on the MKR
Igor

A pillar is identical to the VE.

Originally Posted by Aych Es Vee

^^ Taurus

You Swore.

Worst car for ever sent to us, They were rejected and hated.

Mustangs could sell so well in Australia.

Please not again