How is the 2007 Expedition more truck like than the GMT-900 Tahoe?

[ChevyRacing48]

There seems to be this idea floating around GMI that the Tahoe is more car like and the Expedition is more truck like and tougher. After reviewing the facts about both SUV's, it's actually the other way around. Here's why:


1) Engine:

On paper, the 5.4 Triton is rated at 25 pounds more torque from Ford than the 5.3 GM. "In theory" doesn't always equate to "in practice". Torque is the ability to launch a vehicle from a stand still, horsepower doesn't come into the equation until the vehicle is moving and the RPM's are up. According to the Motor Trend comparison test, here are the 0-60mph results. As a side note, the Tahoe is heavier as well.

Tahoe - 8.6 seconds
Expedition - 9.4 seconds

From those numbers, the Tahoe is better at launching itself from a stand still, therefore meaning better low end torque. All quantitative and objective results here.


2) Towing:

Manufacturers set the max tow ratings for their vehicles. The Expedition is rated for 9100 pounds and the Tahoe at 7700 pounds max, a 1400 pound difference. The Society of Automotive Engineers has their own set standards for determining max tow ratings, which can be applied equally to all vehicle manufacturers. In the 2006 Truck Trend, truck comparison test they detailed the SAE standard for determining max tow ratings. The Chevy was the only one who could tow the max rating while the Dodge could tow the second least and the Ford towing the least amount of the manufacturer rating.

Proven by the 0-60mph times, the GM 5.3 has better usage of low end torque, combined with the fact that torque is used to get a load moving, the 5.3 is better off as the tow engine. Further to that, the best Ford offers is a 3.73 rear end compared to the 4.10 rear end option from GM. Sure the 3.73 gets better mileage, but I am talking about work abilities here, and the 4.10 is much better at towing than a 3.73.


3) Ground Clearance:

The 4x4 Expedition ground clearance is reported at 8.8 inches. The Tahoe ground clearance is reported at 9.1 inches in the rear and 10.5 inches in the front. Both ahead of the Ford.


4) Frame:

The new GMT-900 uses a fully boxed and completely hydroformed frame including the front and rear sections. Does Ford hydro form the front and rear sections? If they don't, another advantage to the Tahoe.


5) Suspension:

The new Tahoe uses a very similar front independent double wishbone coil over set-up including cast aluminum lower control arms as Ford. There is no advantage here one way or the other. Now on to the rear suspension. Keep in mind, I am arguing which SUV is better suited for work and not which one handles better. Whether or not the decision to stick with the solid axle was a consequent of rushing the production date, a solid axle is more durable than an independent axle.

Independent suspensions are known for handling and ride quality, not working ability. A year or so ago when tidbits of leaked information become public about the GMT-900's and the IRS was one such info item, the Ford fans jumped all over the GM fans saying how wimpy it is and the direction they are taking. In addition, the IFS currently used in the GM HD trucks is another area where Ford claims to have a more robust design. Well if the SFA in the Ford is tougher in the HD's, than how can the IRS be tougher in the SUV's? Simply - it's not.



The only area where the Expedition shows more muscular features is the front clip exterior styling. Add that in with the Ford setting a tow rating of 9100 pounds and on paper having 25 pounds more torque, people deduce it must be more truck like and less car like. All that is, is like putting a fancy dress on a pig, all you really have is a pig. I'll let real world evidence support my theories, and this supports the Tahoe as being more capable of a work truck - period.

[XCR440SP]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacing48

There seems to be this idea floating around GMI that the Tahoe is more car like and the Expedition is more truck like and tougher. After reviewing the facts about both SUV's, it's actually the other way around. Here's why:


1) Engine:

On paper, the 5.4 Triton is rated at 25 pounds more torque from Ford than the 5.3 GM. "In theory" doesn't always equate to "in practice". Torque is the ability to launch a vehicle from a stand still, horsepower doesn't come into the equation until the vehicle is moving and the RPM's are up. According to the Motor Trend comparison test, here are the 0-60mph results. As a side note, the Tahoe is heavier as well.

Tahoe - 8.6 seconds
Expedition - 9.4 seconds

From those numbers, the Tahoe is better at launching itself from a stand still, therefore meaning better low end torque. All quantitative and objective results here.


2) Towing:

Manufacturers set the max tow ratings for their vehicles. The Expedition is rated for 9100 pounds and the Tahoe at 7700 pounds max, a 1400 pound difference. The Society of Automotive Engineers has their own set standards for determining max tow ratings, which can be applied equally to all vehicle manufacturers. In the 2006 Truck Trend, truck comparison test they detailed the SAE standard for determining max tow ratings. The Chevy was the only one who could tow the max rating while the Dodge could tow the second least and the Ford towing the least amount of the manufacturer rating.

Proven by the 0-60mph times, the GM 5.3 has better usage of low end torque, combined with the fact that torque is used to get a load moving, the 5.3 is better off as the tow engine. Further to that, the best Ford offers is a 3.73 rear end compared to the 4.10 rear end option from GM. Sure the 3.73 gets better mileage, but I am talking about work abilities here, and the 4.10 is much better at towing than a 3.73.


3) Ground Clearance:

The 4x4 Expedition ground clearance is reported at 8.8 inches. The Tahoe ground clearance is reported at 9.1 inches in the rear and 10.5 inches in the front. Both ahead of the Ford.


4) Frame:

The new GMT-900 uses a fully boxed and completely hydroformed frame including the front and rear sections. Does Ford hydro form the front and rear sections? If they don't, another advantage to the Tahoe.


5) Suspension:

The new Tahoe uses a very similar front independent double wishbone coil over set-up including cast aluminum lower control arms as Ford. There is no advantage here one way or the other. Now on to the rear suspension. Keep in mind, I am arguing which SUV is better suited for work and not which one handles better. Whether or not the decision to stick with the solid axle was a consequent of rushing the production date, a solid axle is more durable than an independent axle.

Independent suspensions are known for handling and ride quality, not working ability. A year or so ago when tidbits of leaked information become public about the GMT-900's and the IRS was one such info item, the Ford fans jumped all over the GM fans saying how wimpy it is and the direction they are taking. In addition, the IFS currently used in the GM HD trucks is another area where Ford claims to have a more robust design. Well if the SFA in the Ford is tougher in the HD's, than how can the IRS be tougher in the SUV's? Simply - it's not.



The only area where the Expedition shows more muscular features is the front clip exterior styling. Add that in with the Ford setting a tow rating of 9100 pounds and on paper having 25 pounds more torque, people deduce it must be more truck like and less car like. All that is, is like putting a fancy dress on a pig, all you really have is a pig. I'll let real world evidence support my theories, and this supports the Tahoe as being more capable of a work truck - period.

Wow, you should apply for a job writing for Consumer Reports, with your ability to skew facts and comparisons, I'm sure they'd hire you!

1. Did you compare curb weights, transmission gear ratios and final drive? Also the 6 speed is going to give the 07 Expy better performance than the one tested.

2. You'd have to test this vehicle to make that claim, this is way to much of a generalization. Based on this I can say that the Tahoe doesn't have near as much horsepower based on tests on the in 99 and again in 2000 where Truck trends dyno'd the 5.3L and 5.4L and the 5.3L looked pretty sorry in comparison, but I'd be reaching also since that was long ago, but you get my point.

3. True, but do most buyers care?

4. I'm not sure on the status of this (weather 07's use full or partial), I know that one reason given for not hydroforming front and rear stubs was due to accedents and the difficulty of straightning a Hydroformed frame. However, is the Tahoe going to use through welded crossmembers like the F-150 and Expedition?

5. Independant suspension is a BIG advantage in this vehicle, these are for ride and handling. In a 3/4 ton version I'd agree that a solid axle is better, but anything 1/2 and smaller is better off with IRS for Ride, Handling and it also give the 3rd seat a lot more room.


Don't get me wrong Tahoe has some Advantages over Expedition, but many of them are gadgets that make it more of a luxury car.

[SUPERBADD75]

Originally Posted by ChevyRacing48

On paper, the 5.4 Triton is rated at 25 pounds more torque from Ford than the 5.3 GM. "In theory" doesn't always equate to "in practice". Torque is the ability to launch a vehicle from a stand still, horsepower doesn't come into the equation until the vehicle is moving and the RPM's are up. According to the Motor Trend comparison test, here are the 0-60mph results. As a side note, the Tahoe is heavier as well.

Tahoe - 8.6 seconds
Expedition - 9.4 seconds

From those numbers, the Tahoe is better at launching itself from a stand still, therefore meaning better low end torque. All quantitative and objective results here.

transmission and axle ratios also play a major part in acceleration, not just torque. you mentioned that the Expedition offers a 3.73 rearend while the Tahoe offers a 4.10. well, the 4.10 is better for launching a vehicle, therefore partially responsible for the better 0-60 times. not to mention the fact that Ford's automatics have always been slow out of first, and slow on the 1-2 shift, presumably to provide a smoother shift than the GM transmissions that will practically jolt you out of your seat at full throttle. i think this statement is misleading.

also, Ford's Super Duty trucks have a Twin I-Beam front suspension on 2WD models, that is an IFS, not a solid axle.

[heat_fan1]

I haven't really heard this talk of the Expedition being more truck-like, but I have to say this argument is pretty weak.

Fast acceleration times = more torque? It couldn't possibly be some other factor, could it? Like...less weight? The 2007Tahoe weighs about 5525 lbs. The 2006 Expedition weighs 5610 lbs. That's a nice 85 lb different that could negate the Expedition's torque advantage. Now, the Expedition's drive-train may have more power-loss to heat, but its engine does have 25 lb-ft more torque than the Tahoe.

Secondly, ground clearance isn't everything. Above a certain hight, every vehicle is truck-like. You can go as high as you want after that and the benefits don't change. In fact, they may even decrease. Once you go so high, towing becomes more difficult, getting into the vehicle becomes more difficult, etc. Now, I'm not saying the Tahoe is at this level, I'm just saying that the difference between these two vehicles is insignificant.

I don't need to go over the rest. You may have arguments there. Overall, I'd say a silly, and weak debate here.

[TaHoE]

I think people are missing that fact that the 9100lb tow rating is for the Expedition EL, we have yet to see what the plain 'ol Expedition will get. For comparisons sake the new Suburban can tow 9800lbs.

[mkaake]

I think the bigger picture that people are missing is that we shouldn't even be having this argument... it's silly. A truck is more of a truck because it has a hydroformed box? Or it's more of a truck because of the bolts used to hold the bed to the rails?

People who like the Tahoe will get the Tahoe, and people who like the Expedition will get the Expedition, and I don't think anyone will be swayed away from their personal preference based on internet arguments.

They are different vehicles marketed to slightly different people. Some will love the looks of one while hating the other, and vice versa. Some will need more ground clearance, while some will prefer IRS.

Get over it. Pissing back and forth online isn't going to change anything...

<edit>

And really, we should be hoping that Ford does well right now - we want them to stay around (even if we think that most of their stuff is ugly) - I'd rather have them keep their marketshare than hand it over to Toyohondassan...

[Snafu_SS]

Originally Posted by TaHoE

I think people are missing that fact that the 9100lb tow rating is for the Expedition EL, we have yet to see what the plain 'ol Expedition will get. For comparisons sake the new Suburban can tow 9800lbs.

why such a bigt difference between a tahoe and suburban...if anything i'd of thought the larger heavier vehicle (suburban) would carry atleast a lil less maybe? theres only about a 2 foot difference in length for the two. but then wheelbase is a lil different too...hmm

[bigplayrayr]

Probably doesn't matter, with gas prices likely to rise again, I doubt either of the SUVs will be good sellers.

[Snafu_SS]

Originally Posted by mkaake

I think the bigger picture that people are missing is that we shouldn't even be having this argument... it's silly. A truck is more of a truck because it has a hydroformed box? Or it's more of a truck because of the bolts used to hold the bed to the rails?

People who like the Tahoe will get the Tahoe, and people who like the Expedition will get the Expedition, and I don't think anyone will be swayed away from their personal preference based on internet arguments.

They are different vehicles marketed to slightly different people. Some will love the looks of one while hating the other, and vice versa. Some will need more ground clearance, while some will prefer IRS.

Get over it. Pissing back and forth online isn't going to change anything...

<edit>

And really, we should be hoping that Ford does well right now - we want them to stay around (even if we think that most of their stuff is ugly) - I'd rather have them keep their marketshare than hand it over to Toyohondassan...

you make a good point...but it is a discussion forum, and all that is going on is a discussion...well some ppl turn it into an all out fight yes, but still, many keep it discusion only

[Snafu_SS]

Originally Posted by bigplayrayr

Probably doesn't matter, with gas prices likely to rise again, I doubt either of the SUVs will be good sellers.

thats when the new Lambda crossovers and Tahoe Hybrid step in to pick up the slack...i hope

[Maxxer442]

Originally Posted by mkaake

I think the bigger picture that people are missing is that we shouldn't even be having this argument... it's silly. A truck is more of a truck because it has a hydroformed box? Or it's more of a truck because of the bolts used to hold the bed to the rails?

People who like the Tahoe will get the Tahoe, and people who like the Expedition will get the Expedition, and I don't think anyone will be swayed away from their personal preference based on internet arguments.

They are different vehicles marketed to slightly different people. Some will love the looks of one while hating the other, and vice versa. Some will need more ground clearance, while some will prefer IRS.

Get over it. Pissing back and forth online isn't going to change anything...

<edit>

And really, we should be hoping that Ford does well right now - we want them to stay around (even if we think that most of their stuff is ugly) - I'd rather have them keep their marketshare than hand it over to Toyohondassan...

I'll second that!!

[wtgkb8]

Originally Posted by heat_fan1

I haven't really heard this talk of the Expedition being more truck-like, but I have to say this argument is pretty weak.

Fast acceleration times = more torque? It couldn't possibly be some other factor, could it? Like...less weight? The 2007Tahoe weighs about 5525 lbs. The 2006 Expedition weighs 5610 lbs. That's a nice 85 lb different that could negate the Expedition's torque advantage. Now, the Expedition's drive-train may have more power-loss to heat, but its engine does have 25 lb-ft more torque than the Tahoe.

Secondly, ground clearance isn't everything. Above a certain hight, every vehicle is truck-like. You can go as high as you want after that and the benefits don't change. In fact, they may even decrease. Once you go so high, towing becomes more difficult, getting into the vehicle becomes more difficult, etc. Now, I'm not saying the Tahoe is at this level, I'm just saying that the difference between these two vehicles is insignificant.

I don't need to go over the rest. You may have arguments there. Overall, I'd say a silly, and weak debate here.

06 Tahoe 4WD: 5210lbs
07 Tahoe 4WD: 5706lbs
Off chevy website...going by this, 07 tahoe weighs 94lbs more than 06 expedition...not exactly a fair comparison...is there curb weight stats on the 07 exp yep?

[logansowner]

The stupidest thing I've read in a while. You need to work for one of the major car magazines, probably CR, you sure can skew facts and figures to tell anything you please.

THis is an absolutely retarded piece of writing. With of course the stupidest part being that you say 0-60 times are a sole effect of torque. Maybe you didn't notice that the Chevy gives times with a 4.10 and the Ford a 3.73? Or maybe weight. And then while we all know horsepower comes into play at higher rpm, you completely disregard it having any impact at low speeds whatsoever, presumably because it would foil your horribly skewed and dishonest comparison.

I know we all love GM vehicles, I know I do, especially recently, but you are doing the whole community a disservice by being blind to reality. I'm not saying oen is more truck like than the other, but this comparison was solely to put Ford down while lying about most of the information. Being blindly loyal to a brand does not help anything. Now off you CR you go...


It's kinda like tiny pen.is syndrome, you wouldn't feel the need to prop your truck up if you wern't worried about it not being as impressive as someone elses in the first place...

[Hotspur]

BOTH the Ford and the Chevy need to SELL WELL at a profit for the good of Ford, GM and their suppliers. Recommend either vehicle, buy either vehicle, and keep SUV market share in the US.

[01cavalier]

I'm not sure I would call one more trucklike than the other based on how the frame is made, how fast it can accelerate or how much it can tow. They are both capable SUVs in their own right, and this comparison seems to not match equals to eachother. Not to mention the 4.10 axle, how many would actually order that? The mileage penalty would be huge, and not many would tow so much often enough to make it worth it.