Honda won't produce plug-in hybrids

[ronald mcretard]

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/10...ry-dont-reduc/

Honda president, CEO: plug-in hybrids "unnecessary," don't reduce emissions

While GM and Toyota have shown interest in making plug-in hybrids, Honda probably won't do PHEVs if Takeo Fukui has anything to say about it. And Takeo probably does have something to say about it, considering he is Honda's president and CEO. Honda is the second largest hybrid car maker, after Toyota, but Takeo thinks plug-in hybrids like the Volt are just electric vehicles with an "unnecessary" gas motor with no "real advantages." Takeo says he could make one in two years but don't think it will "reduce emissions." Here are some of his quotes from a Reuters article out today:

"My feeling is that the kind of plug-in hybrid currently proposed by different auto makers can be best described as a battery electric vehicle equipped with an unnecessary fuel engine and fuel tank. ... I'm not sure what kind of real advantages they [plug-ins] would have. ... I don't think that [plug-ins] will contribute to the global environment or to reducing carbon dioxide."

Honda recently stopped selling the Insight Civic hybrid but plans a big push for hybrids in 2009. Takeo thinks that, years from now, battery and hydrogen fuel cell technology have real promise as well. Be warned Takeo, you sound a lot like Rick before he came over to the green side. GM and Toyota are the two largest automakers in the world and they must have found some sort of necessary advantage to making plug-ins.

[jkr2106]

HaHa this reminds me of Toyota doubting the success of a series hybrid. Just because YOU can't produce a plug-in hybrid, doesn't mean it won't "contribute to the global environment or [reduce] carbon dioxide." If nobody's driving on gasoline, then, yes, there will be a reduction in carbon dioxide.

[john1701a]

Originally Posted by jkr2106

HaHa this reminds me of Toyota doubting the success of a series hybrid.

How?

Toyota already has a platform available to support plug-in augmentation. For around $3,000 a second battery-pack with plug can be added and the software updated to increase electric-only speed to 62 MPH.

Honda doesn't have any of that. Brief motor assist is all. The system was never intended to support more (motor cooling, independent component operation, etc).

Of course, that doesn't matter anyway. The target market for large-scale acceptance is a price in the low 20's. Toyota is working toward reaching that goal soon. Volt will work just fine, but price will be much more due to the battery requirements. Selling many to that market is the true measure of success. Right?

JOHN

[furyagain]

wasn't the EV1 could do 100 miles per charge?????

if people really just doing under 100 miles each day ...
mm then ...it is true.. why need a gas engine/gas tank

should just remove the gas engine/gas tank and then put even more battery/bigger electric motor in it

[unkillsam]

Originally Posted by furyagain

wasn't the EV1 could do 100 miles per charge?????

if people really just doing under 100 miles each day ...
mm then ...it is true.. why need a gas engine/gas tank

should just remove the gas engine/gas tank and then put even more battery/bigger electric motor in it

No one is going to spend $25,000 on a vehicle that cannot continuosly drive.

Imagine me driving 90 miles down the shore. Oops, I'm halfway there but I have to rent a hotel room and stop for the night because my battery is low and I need to recharge for 6 hours.

[ronald mcretard]

Originally Posted by furyagain

wasn't the EV1 could do 100 miles per charge?????

if people really just doing under 100 miles each day ...
mm then ...it is true.. why need a gas engine/gas tank

should just remove the gas engine/gas tank and then put even more battery/bigger electric motor in it

The batteries are way too heavy and expensive to put more in there (EV1 would have cost A LOT if it actually went into production - and it was only a small two-seater).

In the future when bettery technology is much better, then a pure EV will be better. But for the next ___ years the Volt will be state of the art.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by ronald mcretard

Honda recently stopped selling the Insight Civic hybrid but plans a big push for hybrids in 2009. Takeo thinks that, years from now, battery and hydrogen fuel cell technology have real promise as well. Be warned Takeo, you sound a lot like Rick before he came over to the green side. GM and Toyota are the two largest automakers in the world and they must have found some sort of necessary advantage to making plug-ins.

Just remember. Honda has a exceptional R&D division.
THey might have something up their sleeves.
Or they just prefer not to put their eggs in an intermediate bucket like Plug-ins and prefer to go for the ultimate goal.

Honda's already far ahead of everyone else in terms of efficiency. I don't think they'll give up their lead without a fight.

[osv_alero]

It comes down to pride. GM says they can do it, so toyota and honda want to make GM look bad. It is the same back handed crap they have been doing for years. It's this attitude that took GM down and the same one that will hurt the Japanese makes.

[Havasavana]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Just remember. Honda has a exceptional R&D division.
THey might have something up their sleeves.
Or they just prefer not to put their eggs in an intermediate bucket like Plug-ins and prefer to go for the ultimate goal.

Honda's already far ahead of everyone else in terms of efficiency. I don't think they'll give up their lead without a fight.

Exactly. And here's more info from what he said: On Tuesday, Mr. Fukui stressed Honda could easily develop a plug-in hybrid within two years.

Honda could be going on the path taken by GM, but they have chosen not to. The Volt, if it appears, will provide no competitive advantage to GM.

[camaro_freak]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Just remember. Honda has a exceptional R&D division.
THey might have something up their sleeves.
Or they just prefer not to put their eggs in an intermediate bucket like Plug-ins and prefer to go for the ultimate goal.

Honda's already far ahead of everyone else in terms of efficiency. I don't think they'll give up their lead without a fight.

good point, unlike GM, they don't lift their skirt new product is on the horizion. They just unveil it and it is ready to go.

Isn't Honda one of the largest manufacturers of ULEV autos anyway?

[genjy]

I don't know... I sort of trust Honda when it comes to being green and environmental and stuff.


I wouldn't brush aside what Honda says about plug-in hybrids just yet.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by john1701a

How?

Toyota already has a platform available to support plug-in augmentation. For around $3,000 a second battery-pack with plug can be added and the software updated to increase electric-only speed to 62 MPH.

Honda doesn't have any of that. Brief motor assist is all. The system was never intended to support more (motor cooling, independent component operation, etc).

Of course, that doesn't matter anyway. The target market for large-scale acceptance is a price in the low 20's. Toyota is working toward reaching that goal soon. Volt will work just fine, but price will be much more due to the battery requirements. Selling many to that market is the true measure of success. Right?

JOHN

The VOLT is not going to be 30K to start. That may very well be what the first 100,000 sell for after dealer markup, but the starting sticker will be significantly less.

A software update on the Prius will not put it into full electric to 62mph with any kind of decent acceleration. You might be able to cruise at 62, but hit a hill, try to accelerate from 50-60 to pass, and forget it - on comes the ICE. Unless they increase the size of the motor drastically, forget it.

Thats where I agree with this guy, a plug in Prius wouldn't do much. The VOLT - thats where he is dead wrong. It just shows a very bad understanding of the US market and US commuting habits.

The VOLT, driven like an average person would, drops fuel usage around 80-90%. Now, maybe in Japan - that doesn't mean much, but in the US, that means we can stop the middle east antics. The VOLT is the first vehicle that can make a real difference in fuel usage. Hybrid SUVs are another area. A hybrid Tahoe saves much more gas than a Prius. 20-30% savings on compact cars just doesn't do much.

I could care less about carbon emissions right now, what I care about is an oil crisis and a recession/depression. If burning coal and making electricity or ethanol can get it done, fantastic. We'll deal with the carbon problem soon.

Now, why is the range extending motor under attack from Japan. Simple, no understanding of American spirit and out unwillingness to sacrifice for anyone but ourselves and our families. Thats completely counter to Japanese culture. Even though we might use that range extending motor once a year, we still want it, just like 4WD for most people. That motor is what makes this all plausible. 40 mile range is too short. When it hits 200miles, then you'll see the range extending motor being phased out - for some people.

[A Bum In A Bus]

Honda's talking bullcrap, they don't have the technology or they would be pushing it. And as for Honda's R&D, they are not a drop in the bucket when compared to GM or Ford. Three to four more years and they will be left in the dust, hide and watch, that is unless Toyota can steal GM's ideas.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by Havasavana

The Volt, if it appears, will provide no competitive advantage to GM.

Is this supposed to be sarcasm or something? Just the hint of the VOLT on the horizon has people publishing articles like "Green GM" You don't think the real thing will do anything positive for GM's standing?

[racy]

Honda seems uninterested in being number #1,2 or three or any other number. This gives them a nice advantage in that they don't have to contantly be looking over their shoulder. Neither the hare nor the turtle...somewhere in the middle.

While I don't think this decision will kill them, the problem I see is in their faith in the hydrogen economy. Its not going to spring up any time soon. The technology is pretty close, but the infrastructure is nowhere to be found - which pretty much makes the vehicles irrelevent.

My bet is, they believe their interim strategy of non-plugins will continue to evolve and hold them over until paradigm shift. And that very well may be the case. In terms production vehicles, hybrids are still incredibly new and the technology is nowhere near being pushed to its limits.