FORD'S BALLSY MOVE: C1 Focus, CC, Kuga, CMax, TransitConnect, Transit, F100 approved!

[Bravada]

God, WHAT A SPIN!

Everything that's been said in that article has already been said before, although the article tries to make everything look "ultra quick", it's actually still a very long wait, and the decision to keep making the C170 Focus alongside the new Focus is a step backwards. Also, without the real treat from Europe, the EUCD (Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, Volvos), the plan is a half-empty glass.

It is simply the obvious thing for Ford to do, and a very conservative plan, spun to look like something really BIG. GM is basically doing the same, and they are perhaps even closer, with the VUE already merged to some extent with the Antara.

[Stew]

One thing to consider that Ford has done, the others have not, is that they get generally universal praise in Europe. Even Top gear loves their vehicles and they are bad for downing American brands LOL, even the Eruope only bransd are owned by domestic automakers. We need the damned Mondeo though!

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

I agree. The domestic fullsize minivans are built for towing. The Transit and Sprinter can't tow as much - but most buyers do not need the extra tow capacity.

A plumber, appliance repair man, electrician, or FedEx delivery truck might cart around hundreds of cubic feet of stuff, but the total weight isn't particularly heavy.

I think you are on to something here, the full size van as we know it will be the most changed vehicle due to CAFE, not only do most full size van users not need the payload, they could use a lower floor for loading passengers/cargo and no doubt for many users a 2.9L V6 or even a 2.0L Turbo-Diesel would provide enough power for delivery usage.

It will be interesting to see how Ford and GM redesign future full size vans.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by Bravada

God, WHAT A SPIN!

Everything that's been said in that article has already been said before, although the article tries to make everything look "ultra quick", it's actually still a very long wait.

Actually, there is more than just a little new information contained within this article. First, prior to this article there existed not even the vaguest rumor that plans existed to bring the C1 Focus over here. The previous plan was to introduce the new C2-based Focus in North America in either 2011-2012 to replace the existing C170-based model. If the above info proves true were going to be getting the recently updated C1 Focus in either the 2009 or 2010 model year. There is a rather big difference between 2009/2010 and 2011/2012.

Originally Posted by Bravada

and the decision to keep making the C170 Focus alongside the new Focus is a step backwards.

I don't see how. The C170-based Focus remains a surprisingly competitive car that is selling very well, so well in fact that it is outselling all but two of it's competitors. In light of this retaining this car as a B segment place holder until the Fiesta is introduced makes perfect sense. My only wish is that Ford would realized that this same strategy makes just as much sense with the existing Ranger.

Originally Posted by Bravada

Also, without the real treat from Europe, the EUCD (Mondeo, S-Max, Galaxy, Volvos), the plan is a half-empty glass.

With the exception of the Mondeo the truth is that we get all the other EUCD based product likely to do well here in North America, a list currently limited to the S80. As for the rest.....Galaxy's conventional doors and smaller size would almost certainly doom it in the US mini-van market, while the S Max is unlikely to do anywhere near as well as the much more avant-garde Flex, a vehicle which the S Max would crowd at least a bit if introduced on our shores.

According to Ford the Mondeo, while nice, is apparently just too expensive to produce to sell competitively here. Given European positioning and pricing relative to the competition I have no trouble believing this to be the case with the closest current North American offering to the Mondeo arguably being the VW Passat....which has been oft criticized for being too expensive for the segment.

Originally Posted by Bravada

It is simply the obvious thing for Ford to do, and a very conservative plan, spun to look like something really BIG. GM is basically doing the same, and they are perhaps even closer, with the VUE already merged to some extent with the Antara.

I disagree. GM's plans for cars in the C segment and smaller appears to contain a smattering of Korean engineered models. Granted, their platforms are global but it seems unlikely that the decision to base these offerings on Korean models was motivated by anything but cost savings, which doesn't bode well for quality and materials content. GM's and Ford's plans in these areas couldn't be more different.

[Butz]

This wouldn't of happened if it weren't for Mulally! Some times it takes real men to do real bold moves!
This move is a leap forward for Ford.

[newdude]

woow, very impressive to me. is there a possbility, seeing as everything might be ready in less than 2 years that we could see some things during autoshow season (NYIAS, NAIAS, etc)??

[ZeroDrag]

Originally Posted by Butz

This wouldn't of happened if it weren't for Mulally! Some times it takes real men to do real bold moves!
This move is a leap forward for Ford.

Just being curious: what is "wouldn't of"? I have seen it being used in the forums a lot.

[Butz]

Originally Posted by ZeroDrag

Just being curious: what is "wouldn't of"? I have seen it being used in the forums a lot.

I've been wondering for quite sometime and then I started using it without asking
The English language as an ever evolving entity, if a lot of people use it, it must be correct

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by Butz

This wouldn't of happened if it weren't for Mulally! Some times it takes real men to do real bold moves!
This move is a leap forward for Ford.

Thats it.

The thing is tho, ( and I'm not trying to throw a bucket of water on this announcement ) - I'm not sure its really feasible quite that quickly.

If thats the case, its still a big move forward regardless of exactly what can be done and what makes sense to do.

Just the fact they're thinking like this is significant in a positive way.

[1931Chevy]

^ I think it can be achieved since we are talking about vehicles that are in production already, all they need is to retool the factories and that can be done quickly in less than a year,look at the craiova plant,Ford closed the deal in March 08 and by summer 09 the transit connect will be rolling of the plant so It can be done , but the biggest task is to get the suppliers inline with what is needed to produce the vehicles here

[Bravada]

Originally Posted by syr74

Actually, there is more than just a little new information contained within this article. First, prior to this article there existed not even the vaguest rumor that plans existed to bring the C1 Focus over here. The previous plan was to introduce the new C2-based Focus in North America in either 2011-2012 to replace the existing C170-based model. If the above info proves true were going to be getting the recently updated C1 Focus in either the 2009 or 2010 model year. There is a rather big difference between 2009/2010 and 2011/2012.

I've been following Ford news here, and I am sincerely convinced the C1 Focus was already promised for 2010 sometime ago.

The C170-based Focus remains a surprisingly competitive car that is selling very well, so well in fact that it is outselling all but two of it's competitors.

Fleet sales?

In light of this retaining this car as a B segment place holder until the Fiesta is introduced makes perfect sense.

I don't think it makes that much sense NOT to have introduced the Fiesta for so many years and keeping a mediocre entry that keeps Ford's profile and perception downmarket.

My only wish is that Ford would realized that this same strategy makes just as much sense with the existing Ranger.

But Ford is doing just that - keeping the old mule running until it's dead. Ranger was just spared the awful facelift.

Galaxy's conventional doors and smaller size would almost certainly doom it in the US mini-van market, while the S Max is unlikely to do anywhere near as well as the much more avant-garde Flex, a vehicle which the S Max would crowd at least a bit if introduced on our shores.

Which of the smaller crossovers/SUVs currently available in the US market have sliding doors, apart from Mazda5? Has the lack of sliding doors hurt Ford Edge, Saturn VUE, Highlander? I am not discussing avant-garde vs. shoebox, but I am sure many customers would appreciate the sleek&practical combo the S-Max offers. The Flex is two sizes larger, they are not competing, but rather complementary.

According to Ford the Mondeo, while nice, is apparently just too expensive to produce to sell competitively here. Given European positioning and pricing relative to the competition I have no trouble believing this to be the case with the closest current North American offering to the Mondeo arguably being the VW Passat....which has been oft criticized for being too expensive for the segment.

VW manages to bring the Passat to the US at about 10-20% higher MSRP than competing midsize cars, and that's close to the price difference between the Passat and Mondeo in Europe. So, Ford should be able to IMPORT the Mondeo CHEAPER than the Passat already. I can't imagine how it couldn't get even cheaper if Ford could get away from importing costs and currency issues. Of course it surely IS cheaper to continue with the cheap-to-build old CD3 cars, but it also positions Ford firmly where it is.

I disagree. GM's plans for cars in the C segment and smaller appears to contain a smattering of Korean engineered models. Granted, their platforms are global but it seems unlikely that the decision to base these offerings on Korean models was motivated by anything but cost savings, which doesn't bode well for quality and materials content. GM's and Ford's plans in these areas couldn't be more different.

GM already offers the Astra in the US, as well as the VUE (see: Focus C1 and Kuga). The new Cobalt is due in 2010/2011, also becoming a global vehicle like the Focus - though no word is out on the continuation of the old Cobalt by then. GM already DID bring one of their global subcompacts to the US - even if not arguably the best they have, they've at least gained a foothold in the market.

[LeSabre]

I am hoping the Mondeo gets the go ahead & is brought over as a Mercury. I believe this is really a no brainer. You have Ford's car line up which is or will be overlapping & overflowing w/product...possibly too much product. Mercury has nothing in their pipeline aside from the coming Milan. Mercury is in a sense poised to receive much needed - new- product.

I wish GM would be quicker w/some or alot of decisions like Ford reportedly is.

[Bravada]

Well, GM has all but promised the new Insignia (however less awe-inspiring than the Mondeo) will become the new Aura, perhaps sooner than the Mondeo and Fusion get merged into a common successor. This is the CURRENT generation of the car, not the next one, as in Ford's case.

Again:

1. Ford will bring the Focus C1 stateside in some two years. GM already sells the Astra, and given the arrangement, the switch to the upcoming 2009-or-so model would be imminent for the US market too.

2. Ford mulls bringing the Kuga too and making it in North America. Meanwhile, GM already offers the VUE which is to a large extent identical to the global-market Opel/Vauxhall Antara (Holden Captiva Maxx) - for better or worse.

3. Ford will bring its anticipated new Fiesta to the US and perhaps even build it stateside. GM, which is arguably weaker in this segment, already has a fairly decent seller in North America and will replace it with an improved, global series of models around the same time the Fiesta debuts.

4. GM, grudgingly and reluctantly, gives their midmarket brands, Buick and Pontiac, a slow makeover based on slowly-dosed attractive models, it has also completely revamped Saturn (for better or worse, again). Ford has nothing but slow euthanasia for Mercury, and Lincoln is getting what should have been Mercuries instead.

5. GM has a new hybrid system in store, along with the first serious Prius fighter since Honda's failed attempts. Ford licenses hybrid systems from Toyota and puts them into rather "experienced" SUVs.

6. GM will launch the next generation of their seven-sitter compact/midsize minivans in the USA in a big fashion (two models reportedly), Ford restrains the S-Max and Galaxy from US sales.

7. Ford brings in the Transit and Transit Connect to the US, GM is playing fourth fiddle in the LCV market with nothing to bring - touche GM, but only in the 7th round...



GM is horrendously slow at their revolution, but Ford is far worse - they've had they chance for "ballsy moves" back at the turn of the millennium, and wasted it, so now they are merely playing catch-up.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Bravada

Well, GM has all but promised the new Insignia (however less awe-inspiring than the Mondeo) will become the new Aura, perhaps sooner than the Mondeo and Fusion get merged into a common successor. This is the CURRENT generation of the car, not the next one, as in Ford's case.

Again:

1. Ford will bring the Focus C1 stateside in some two years. GM already sells the Astra, and given the arrangement, the switch to the upcoming 2009-or-so model would be imminent for the US market too.

2. Ford mulls bringing the Kuga too and making it in North America. Meanwhile, GM already offers the VUE which is to a large extent identical to the global-market Opel/Vauxhall Antara (Holden Captiva Maxx) - for better or worse.

3. Ford will bring its anticipated new Fiesta to the US and perhaps even build it stateside. GM, which is arguably weaker in this segment, already has a fairly decent seller in North America and will replace it with an improved, global series of models around the same time the Fiesta debuts.

4. GM, grudgingly and reluctantly, gives their midmarket brands, Buick and Pontiac, a slow makeover based on slowly-dosed attractive models, it has also completely revamped Saturn (for better or worse, again). Ford has nothing but slow euthanasia for Mercury, and Lincoln is getting what should have been Mercuries instead.

5. GM has a new hybrid system in store, along with the first serious Prius fighter since Honda's failed attempts. Ford licenses hybrid systems from Toyota and puts them into rather "experienced" SUVs.

6. GM will launch the next generation of their seven-sitter compact/midsize minivans in the USA in a big fashion (two models reportedly), Ford restrains the S-Max and Galaxy from US sales.

7. Ford brings in the Transit and Transit Connect to the US, GM is playing fourth fiddle in the LCV market with nothing to bring - touche GM, but only in the 7th round...

GM is horrendously slow at their revolution, but Ford is far worse - they've had they chance for "ballsy moves" back at the turn of the millennium, and wasted it, so now they are merely playing catch-up.

1) Ford never planned to bring C1 to the US... C2 was set to hit dealers in 2 years. So... either C2 is being drastically pulled forward, or C1 is going to get here to be a stopgap until then.

5) Ford developed their hybrid system in-house... it is not a Toyota design. They share something like 2 similar parts, which Toyota patented, hence the licensing.

You're right about everything else. It's not that the move is ballsy, per se... more so that the timing is ballsy in its speed.

[igor]

Originally Posted by Bravada

I've been following Ford news here, and I am sincerely convinced the C1 Focus was already promised for 2010 sometime ago.

yes but this moves the time line UP significantly. Moreover the current C1 Focus might be built here (and sold here) before the MkIII C2 Focus debuts.

Fleet sales?

91% of Focus sales are retail - Ford cannot keep up with demand - they will sell out this month. They sold 90% of their entire inventory in May - they have not been able to increase Wayne AP's production to meet this demand.

I don't think it makes that much sense NOT to have introduced the Fiesta for so many years and keeping a mediocre entry that keeps Ford's profile and perception downmarket.

It did not - but Ford has a new management in charge .. the one that rejected selling cheaped-out Brazilian Fiesta/EcoSport here and instead pushed for the global EU developed model to come. The current FOcus is far from cheap - and it is perfectly positioned for the US market - as can be seen from its climbing popularity - it does not "cheapen" the image - it is right on par its competition, and cheaper. Its price is already set at B-car level - once the updated Fusion is on the market with higher price - there is definite space for C-car priced entry.

But Ford is doing just that - keeping the old mule running until it's dead. Ranger was just spared the awful facelift.

Yet is it consistently regarded as the best small truck on the market and the most fuel efficient as well. The biggest problem with the Ranger is that it cannot have 4 doors and be safe - so it suffers in the popular personal use small truck segment - as a work truck for 2 or 3 passengers it cannot be beat.


[quoteWhich of the smaller crossovers/SUVs currently available in the US market have sliding doors, apart from Mazda5? Has the lack of sliding doors hurt Ford Edge, Saturn VUE, Highlander? I am not discussing avant-garde vs. shoebox, but I am sure many customers would appreciate the sleek&practical combo the S-Max offers. The Flex is two sizes larger, they are not competing, but rather complementary.[/quote]
no - they would not - the S0-max and Galaxy would be small niche players at best. Both of the models looks like minivans, yet dod not offer the practicality of the minivan. They would fail to gain popularity. There is a reason why MAzda (for example) exited the minivan segment - they could charge additional $4,000 for the CD-9 by dressing it up as an SUV and not as a Minivan. The sooner you accept this reality of US market - the better.

[quote[VW manages to bring the Passat to the US at about 10-20% higher MSRP than competing midsize cars, and that's close to the price difference between the Passat and Mondeo in Europe. So, Ford should be able to IMPORT the Mondeo CHEAPER than the Passat already. I can't imagine how it couldn't get even cheaper if Ford could get away from importing costs and currency issues. Of course it surely IS cheaper to continue with the cheap-to-build old CD3 cars, but it also positions Ford firmly where it is.[/quote]
what makes CD3 cars old? Again - the Mondeo is an attractive offering, but unlike the C1 platform it does not have a space in Ford's lineup without killing the Fusion which is too young to kill. Moreover without V6 and without AWD it lacks 2 important and popular aspects of the Fusion. You do not know the profit margins VW has with the Passat in EU and US and nor do you know the profit margins of the Mondeo in US and Fusion in US .... there were some document leaked a while back saying that VW lost a lot of money on each car they built in EU and sold in US ... Passat might be one of them - Ford is not in a position to do that -especially when they have a popular product on the market due for a redesign this winter, selling with higher profit.

GM already offers the Astra in the US, as well as the VUE (see: Focus C1 and Kuga). The new Cobalt is due in 2010/2011, also becoming a global vehicle like the Focus - though no word is out on the continuation of the old Cobalt by then. GM already DID bring one of their global subcompacts to the US - even if not arguably the best they have, they've at least gained a foothold in the market.

well - they are ahead in merging platforms and the new 2010 Cobalt coming out next year as well as otherr cars coming (Equinox, new SRSX, etc) will show this advantage out in force. However the Vue and the Astra are utter and terminal failures in the marketplace - losing sales when their competitors are struggling to meet demand ... they are not a good example of "success" - indeed like the Mondeo/Contour before they further serve as examples of failed global cars - there is a right way to do this - and there is a wrong one.

The Vue/Astra way is the latter.

Igor