Ford of Europe designing future Mercury model

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Every Mercury-ized FoE Kinetic vehicle I've seen with a waterfall grill has looked truly awful. They need to figure out some new design cues for the grill that are actually in harmony with the rest of the design.

I agree. They really do need a new look.

And - like I said earlier - the fact that you've got Lincoln on the same showroom floor sold with a "waterfall-esque" grille does nothing to make it stand apart from Lincoln or other cars out there.

In my honest opinion, it would be better for them to just come up with something NEW and not rely on what was tried and overused. If the future of Mercury is to break with the past, a completely new styling direction is definitely called for.

[peterj2706]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

In fact if Ford of Europe is responsible for future designs, I hope they come up with a different look than the waterfall grille. Its getting tired. And the fact that Lincoln has traditionally been sold with their own version of a waterfall grille - and now a 'split wing' waterfall grille - right alongside similar looking Mercurys makes even less sense. I'd love to see something NEW that will grab the public's attention.

They have to come with something - otherwise it will be mistaken for a Buick........

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by peterj2706

They have to come with something - otherwise it will be mistaken for a Buick........

Like it was in the '80s.

[FierySolstice]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

Its funny you bring this up and point out "what's in a name"

A buddy of mine who knows a thing or two about cars (or at least he thinks he does) was talking to me about the GM/Chrysler merger proposal, etc. He brought up Saturn and wondered how it would fit in a "new GM Chrysler Motors", etc.

A few minutes into the conversation he kept talking about how Saturn was at "the low-end of the market for bargain buyers" or was great for parents with their "polymer panels" etc.

I obviously corrected him: Saturn is now positioned someplace between Pontiac and Buick; and Saturn's do NOT have polymer panels any longer.

But the point was made. Even after 2 or 3 years of the "new, relaunched Saturn" the image that people have of the car - whether it's their market position or the types of cars they sell - has remained intact. After hundreds of millions in advertising and over $3 billion in launching a slate of new products for Saturn, people still don't understand what the new products or values of Saturn are - and that's not just sad, its depressing.

But the larger point is made: If someone who knows a few things about cars doesn't know or understand Saturns new direction - if these points in the repositioning or product image haven't been established - then how can the wider car buying public truly "GET" what the new Saturn is about?

Just an observation on my part - and may point to what kind of troubles the brand may experience in the near future.

I totally agree. The general public who don't know anythiing about cars would not know this. That's why I think GM should of changed the Saturn name to Opel. Same goes for Hyundai. They can launch this new Genesis, but I don't think they will get many buyers. The car could be outstanding, but it still has that name. They should of lauched a luxury brand for this car and the upcoming Portico crossover. Wonder why they didn't put their emblem on the front grill, I think that's why!

[Greg Burr]

Originally Posted by 1BadPig

Mercury = Saturn?

No, Mercury = Ford of Europe with smaller upscale models (priced below Volvo) to sell alongside American luxury. I visualize a well equipped Euro Ford Focus starting below $20K and extending up to performance (260 hp) versions that top out below $30K (compete against mini), C-Max or S-Max people movers as an alternative to large crossovers, a Kuga to compete against the Tiguan as a crossover (vs the Ford Escape trucklet), and the car announced in the article. No midsize sedan (that competes with the MKZ) and no large SUVs (that's Ford). Nothing to compete with Volvo).

The Fiesta takes the place of the Focus in the entry level segment of the Ford lineup.

I wouldn't do much in changing the FOE styling: they do a great job. No need to screw up a perfectly good design, unlike GM with the Insignia.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by FierySolstice

I totally agree. The general public who don't know anythiing about cars would not know this. That's why I think GM should of changed the Saturn name to Opel. Same goes for Hyundai. They can launch this new Genesis, but I don't think they will get many buyers. The car could be outstanding, but it still has that name. They should of lauched a luxury brand for this car and the upcoming Portico crossover. Wonder why they didn't put their emblem on the front grill, I think that's why!

Agreed. Though, if it were up to me, I wouldn't have necessarily introduced Opel. I would have just taken those Saturn assets and transferred them to Pontiac. Pontiac fancies itself as going after customers who want something 'sporty' and different. The same could be said of Saturn/Opel. Instead of inventing/introducing another brand as they've done, one could easily sell Opel products here with the twin-kidney up front and a great marketing campaign. And since Pontiac is well established (and very popular) in markets like Canada (and to a lesser extent in Mexico) it works in the General's interests.

But that's just me.

Regardless the point is consistent - its about the brand and the perception, not the reality of the product.

[2b2]

full 1024x682 size at www.motivemagazine.com gallery Paris

[Rocket 88]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

Agreed. Though, if it were up to me, I wouldn't have necessarily introduced Opel. I would have just taken those Saturn assets and transferred them to Pontiac. Pontiac fancies itself as going after customers who want something 'sporty' and different. The same could be said of Saturn/Opel. Instead of inventing/introducing another brand as they've done, one could easily sell Opel products here with the twin-kidney up front and a great marketing campaign. And since Pontiac is well established (and very popular) in markets like Canada (and to a lesser extent in Mexico) it works in the General's interests.

I am a Saturn buyer and I like the brand. Saturn is greatly misunderstood and is a good brand with very respectable sales considering its pathetic dealership network. If you look at the numbers it absolutely true. Are they profitable? No. Are any of the divisions in North America?

That said, I often wonder if GM made the right decision in revitalizing Saturn after it ruined the brand by starving it of products. The real problem IMO for GM was that if most Olds buyer didn't flock to Buick or Pontiac, how could they expect Saturn buyers to stick with them?

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by Rocket 88

I am a Saturn buyer and I like the brand. Saturn is greatly misunderstood and is a good brand with very respectable sales considering its pathetic dealership network. If you look at the numbers it absolutely true. Are they profitable? No. Are any of the divisions in North America?

That said, I often wonder if GM made the right decision in revitalizing Saturn after it ruined the brand by starving it of products. The real problem IMO for GM was that if most Olds buyer didn't flock to Buick or Pontiac, how could they expect Saturn buyers to stick with them?

I agree that Saturn makes a helluva car and is it IS misunderstood. However, I dont think that a larger dealership network is the answer. If the folks responded to the current lineup in larger droves despite it's limited dealer-footprint, I would agree with you. But they haven't.

As I've stated earlier, at the point that "semi-knowledgable" car-people don't understand what the brand stands for, you have to reconsider the brand. If GM had an unlimited amount of money, I'd say that it makes sense to keep it around and just "educate" the public. But the fact is that GM does NOT have the money to adequately establish the new brand values and new market position with buyers. It would cost WAY too much money and they don't have that kind of time or the resources.

So what should they do? Do they keep throwing money at them and hope peopel notice? That's not the answer either.

I would rather have seen those dollars go to Pontiac or Buick. Granted, Pontiac only sells marginally better and has a much larger foot print. But the fact is that it already has an established footprint vs. Saturn where they are thinking of adding stores to see if that helps improve sales. If it doesn't then GM just wasted money for nothing.

Honestly, as much as I like their products, I'd rather see GM either cut the brand. They can transfer all of that investment over to Pontiac or Buick. Or if they want to get really daring, they can rebadge all Saturns as Opels and jack up the price. At the very least you can justify getting an "imported Opel" at a higher cost than "just a Saturn with plastic panels" as most of the car buying public believes.

Once again, it all comes down to brand values and perception - reality has nothing to do with it.

[jcgable]

[kenman923]

It will remain to be seen if Mercury can pull this off. Remember the Capri and the Merkur?

[BORG]

I think this is being mis-represented. Mercury is getting a version of the next-gen Focus, therefore, naturally, it's being developed in Europe along with the Ford Focus. Keep in mind that Horbury is responsible for design, including the look at Lincoln and Mercury. He overseas design at Lincoln/Mercury and has been since the Milan received it's update (you'll see a slightly different Mercury look on that car).

There is nothing quite like Mercury, it has been very successful despite the perceived lack of relevancy. They very successfully target customers Ford would otherwise not have access to (young female, conquest shoppers who would never consider Ford). This is very different from the relationship between Pontiac, Saturn, Chevy, Buick...they attract very similar customers. I've said it before, I'll say it again, you have to target customers not competitors!

I'm not sure Mercury will have an indefinite future, largely because the roll of Mercury is slowly being taken over by Ford and Lincoln. However, there is a customer that neither brand can adequately target so they are refocusing their products for their customers. The level of investment needed is very minimal and profitability is high and extremely stable. Lincoln and Mercury have never had a more ambitious and harmonious roll, I think it's quite exciting to see even if Mercury seems to be loosing more product than gaining (no longer re-badging everything and anything Ford makes).

[BrickTamland]

I disagree in describing the current Saturn as resembling Oldsmobile. Saturn does not have now, nor has it ever, had fullsize sedans (88, 98, LSS), and upscale sedan (Aurora), or multiple midsizers at once (Achieva, Cutlass Ciera, Cutlass Supreme; Cutlass, Intrigue).

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by BrickTamland

I disagree in describing the current Saturn as resembling Oldsmobile. Saturn does not have now, nor has it ever, had fullsize sedans (88, 98, LSS), and upscale sedan (Aurora), or multiple midsizers at once (Achieva, Cutlass Ciera, Cutlass Supreme; Cutlass, Intrigue).

And look at how those strategies worked out for Olds...it's gone now. That is not all that made Oldsmosbile, Oldsmobile. They were upsacle, good quality vehicles and sat in the gap between Pontiac and Buick in GM's hierarchy (though way back when, Olds was above Buick). Olds was also a technical innovator along with Cadillac for GM. First automatic transmission, first modern mass produced FWD car. Saturn had the Green Line. If it's just what you said that gives a brand it's identity, then none of the current brands are what they used to be. In a way that's true, but really, it's not.

[peterj2706]

Originally Posted by kenman923

It will remain to be seen if Mercury can pull this off. Remember the Capri and the Merkur?

The Capri was good - look at the GM Vega competition at the time!! The Merkur was a ugly duck from day one, and had the quality to prove it. Never understood that car.