First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

  1. Welcome to GM Inside News Forum General discussion forum for GM

    Welcome to GM Inside News Forum - a website dedicated to all things GM.

    You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, at no cost, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, Join GM Inside News Forum today!
     
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 23

Thread: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

  1. #1
    GMI Staff Member Premium Member zete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NCR, Great White North
    Posts
    8,857
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 91 Times in 42 Posts

    First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi
    By Anton Wahlman
    Wall Street Journal (the Street)



    NEW YORK (TheStreet) -- Ford (F) C-Max Energi just entered production in October and I got a chance to take it for a very brief city spin a week ago. A more meaningful test, which would involve at least two to three days of highway driving and electric-range testing, will hopefully be forthcoming sooner rather than later.

    In terms of its powertrain, the C-Max Energi slots in slightly closer to the Toyota (TM) Prius Plug-In than GM's (GM) Chevrolet Volt. The total size of the battery capacity in the C-Max Energi is 7.6 kW, compared to 4.4 in the Prius and 16.5 in the Volt.

    While the Prius will only take you six miles on electricity, the C-Max will do 21, which is still far behind the Volt's 38 miles. Once those all-electric miles are over, the Prius performs at 50 MPG, the C-Max at 43 and the Volt at 38 MPG.

    :

    Because of how differently the Ford operates, the "feel" of the acceleration isn't directly comparable with the Prius. If you force the C-Max into all-electric mode, it is obviously smooth, quiet and efficient, whereas the Prius will engage the gasoline engine whether you like it or not, at that point obviously performing like a regular Prius in terms of acceleration. You can operate the C-Max in that kind of mode as well, and at that point it smokes the Prius -- relatively speaking.

    That said, the C-Max is no match for the Volt in terms of the sports department. Not only is the Volt much more powerful with its 111 kW main electric motor, sometimes helped by a secondary 55 kW electric motor. The Volt is also a relative sports car, physically speaking, where you sit low like in a Camaro or Corvette, and have a lower center of gravity. Simply put: The Volt is the sports car of the bunch, with spinning tires at every red light, and exceptional acceleration/response.

    :

    So which one to buy? The Ford beats the Toyota on every metric except the tiny luggage space. This is a deal killer for some, but not for others.

    For just a couple thousand dollars more, the Chevy Volt gives you superior electric range (38 miles vs. 21) and much more powerful acceleration and sport dynamics. However, the Volt sits low, and with smaller doors making it relatively difficult to get in and out. The Volt's back seat fits only two people easily if they're shorter than 5'11.

    In conclusion, there is no clear-cut winner for every person's needs in this comparison. The Prius wins if you need to transport five people and the most amount of luggage. The Ford wins if you need to transport five large people and can't stand the Toyota's lesser performance. The Volt wins if you want a 2+2 sports car with superior electric car performance.

    More at link.
    "Christians should not hold dumb opinions about the natural world based solely on misreadings of the Bible, especially opinions that can be demonstrably falsified by Reason, lest the Faith be subject to ridicule and mockery." -- St. Augustine of Hippo.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    GMI Staff Member Premium Member zete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NCR, Great White North
    Posts
    8,857
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 91 Times in 42 Posts

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    A very fair comparison of the three cars. To me the ranking is Volt, C-Max Energi, PIP because I value NVH, handling, performance and the likelihood of me lugging around 5 people or their luggage is pretty much nil. Everyone else's mileage will vary .
    "Christians should not hold dumb opinions about the natural world based solely on misreadings of the Bible, especially opinions that can be demonstrably falsified by Reason, lest the Faith be subject to ridicule and mockery." -- St. Augustine of Hippo.

  4. #3
    News Contributor Premium Member Perian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    6,374
    Thanks
    2
    Thanked 227 Times in 85 Posts
    My Ride
    2014 Chevy Volt

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    The upcoming MCE of the Volt will be absolute make or break for this vehicle.

    I am sure that GM is working on making this great vehicle world class...including the adaptation of the new California HOV lane requirements that go into effect on July 1st, 2013.

    Let's see if the government follows through with the suggested $2500 improvement in tax deductions.

    The future could be very bright for the Chevy Volt; but all the pieces will have to fall into place.

  5. #4
    GMI Staff Member Premium Member zete's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    NCR, Great White North
    Posts
    8,857
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 91 Times in 42 Posts

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    Quote Originally Posted by Perian View Post
    The upcoming MCE of the Volt will be absolute make or break for this vehicle.

    I am sure that GM is working on making this great vehicle world class...including the adaptation of the new California HOV lane requirements that go into effect on July 1st, 2013.

    Let's see if the government follows through with the suggested $2500 improvement in tax deductions.

    The future could be very bright for the Chevy Volt; but all the pieces will have to fall into place.
    I can't see how the MCE should be that hard since it's mostly there. If GM would put magnetic shocks on the Volt, cooled seats, power seats, a proper, hard cover for the hatch along with more range coupled with updated interfaces for the screens I think it'd be fine.

    The bigger thing GM needs to do is get the ELR our as well as a CUV and ultimately an Epsilon II-based vehicle.
    "Christians should not hold dumb opinions about the natural world based solely on misreadings of the Bible, especially opinions that can be demonstrably falsified by Reason, lest the Faith be subject to ridicule and mockery." -- St. Augustine of Hippo.

  6. #5
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 JBsZ06's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Posts
    9,466
    Thanks
    7
    Thanked 158 Times in 106 Posts
    My Ride
    2008 black c6 z51 m6 NPP

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    That fords a very minivan like appearance. I believe your insights were spot on

    Looking forward to the ELR.

  7. #6
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,161
    Thanks
    75
    Thanked 93 Times in 75 Posts

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    Seems to be a decent overall comparison.

  8. #7
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8 KingElvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    4,494
    Thanks
    95
    Thanked 145 Times in 89 Posts
    My Ride
    2010 DODGE RAM ST RCSB HEMI

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    While the Volt has that melted bar-of-soap look, it's still interesting to look at.

    With all the cliched talk of global platforms, it remains the case that cars that take Europe by storm usually fail in the US. Their idea of a middle size and middle price car is still about a size smaller than in the US - to the extent that they can't sell with a decent profit margin.
    Check out my automotive blog http://elvisceralappeal.blogspot.com/

  9. #8
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8 KingElvis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    4,494
    Thanks
    95
    Thanked 145 Times in 89 Posts
    My Ride
    2010 DODGE RAM ST RCSB HEMI

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    Quote Originally Posted by zete View Post
    I can't see how the MCE should be that hard since it's mostly there. If GM would put magnetic shocks on the Volt, cooled seats, power seats, a proper, hard cover for the hatch along with more range coupled with updated interfaces for the screens I think it'd be fine.

    The bigger thing GM needs to do is get the ELR our as well as a CUV and ultimately an Epsilon II-based vehicle.
    But the problem with electric cars is that all of the power stuff eats into your battery's range. I'm warming to the Volt - I saw two last week in NW Chicago - and they are a rare sight indeed. They are compelling. I think they need to play up the 'exotic' angle - clearly the Volt's niche - as seen in this very article - is of the cool and sporting image at least in comparison to the phone-booth like EVs it ostensibly competes against.
    Check out my automotive blog http://elvisceralappeal.blogspot.com/

  10. #9
    5.3 Liter Vortec V8 XCR440SP's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    1,364
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    One other thing to put into the equation is service and sales. I believe you can buy the Volt an Prius from any franchised dealer. The Energi will only be available at EV certified dealers (Focus Electric). I just looked and there I do not find any EV dealers in Iowa for example, so buying one would require a long drive, and if traveling and need repair in Iowa, I think this will be an issue as well.

  11. #10
    7.0 Liter LS7 V8
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    4,161
    Thanks
    75
    Thanked 93 Times in 75 Posts

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    I don't think the Volt needs MRC. Most of the people that buy them coulnd't care less. There is no justification to dirve the price up.

  12. #11
    6.0 Liter L76 V8 MechEng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,016
    Thanks
    15
    Thanked 111 Times in 59 Posts
    My Ride
    2013 Chevrolet Volt Blue Topaz

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    Quote Originally Posted by spd98 View Post
    I don't think the Volt needs MRC. Most of the people that buy them coulnd't care less. There is no justification to dirve the price up.
    I agree. The ELR however needs MRC.

    I thought the comparisson was fair as well. If you need the space and can live with the shorter EV range and less performance the C-Max is a decent vehicle. But the Volt is just one heck of a car.

    I think this should give GM more incentive to build the MPV5. I'm hoping a MPV5 like vehicle is in the works for the new D2 platform (Volt 2.0 is confirmed on this platform). This will demonstrate how far ahead GM is over everybody else with Voltec.
    Last edited by MechEng; 11-19-2012 at 12:33 PM.

  13. #12
    3.0 Liter SIDI V6
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Auto Land
    Posts
    663
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 5 Times in 3 Posts

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    The C-MAX Hybrid seems to be selling well as I've seen many more of them from two months on the market than the Prius V which has been out much longer. As to whether the Energi is worth the premium, I'd say yes compared to the PIP, but no compared to the Volt. And to be brutally honest, how many people need to carry five adults and their luggage period? I'd guess you'd buy a different hybrid vehicle like a Lexus RS400h if you need that capacity regularly. In a pinch, the Volt can carry four easily and the C-MAX five, although both may have some luggage issues. The PIP has less interior volume 115.3 cu ft than the C-MAX 118.9 cu ft, but does have 21.6 cu ft behind the seats versus 19.2 cu ft in the C-MAX, so I'd say that unless the reviewer confused the Prius V dimensions with the PIP deimensions, he is really grasping at straws saying the PIP is more spacious for cargo as the difference is the size of a woman's purse.
    Last edited by Bigbee60; 11-19-2012 at 03:33 PM.
    Current Driveway Fleet:
    2012 Volt
    2008 Colorado CrewCab Z71 2WD
    2008 Suzuki SX-4 Crossover AWD Touring (wife still loves it after 5+ years and 67K miles)
    2013 Sonic LTZ (college duty)
    2003 Porsche Boxster S (sunny days and track events)
    2011 Cruze LT2 RS (college duty in Florida)

  14. #13
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 Ed753's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    5,345
    Thanks
    683
    Thanked 268 Times in 180 Posts
    My Ride
    2013 Chevrolet Silverado LTZ

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    .......The Volt is also a relative sports car, physically speaking, where you sit low like in a Camaro or Corvette.............
    While this has its advantages, its a long-time bug-a-boo of mine, with many GM small/mid-sized cars.

    I call it the "fall-in" "roll-out" syndrome, the N-Body (Grand-AM, Malibu, Alero, Skylark) and Cavalier/Cobalt/Sunfire are a few that come to mind, I think early W-Bodies also suffered. (sitting so low to the ground)

    That was one thing, that I noticed the Cruze kind-of broke free from of the Cobalt, having a more right-sized and up-right seating. does the Volt sit lower than a Cruze?

    Quote Originally Posted by zete View Post
    I can't see how the MCE should be that hard since it's mostly there. If GM would put magnetic shocks on the Volt, cooled seats, power seats, a proper, hard cover for the hatch along with more range coupled with updated interfaces for the screens I think it'd be fine.
    It's mostly there, except for the things it really needs, (the things you mention are superficial and not going to drive sales much more than different exterior colors) What the Volt needs, is a combination of lower cost/higher efficiency.

    Who thinks they'll be alive when the 100 mile battery that fits in a suitcase, with 1 hour recharge time and doesn't cost $9,980 more than the battery in a Cruze comes out?


    Past: 11 Ram 13-11; 10 Commander 13-10; 08 Sierra 11-08; 07 Rendezvous 10-07; 05 Ram 08-05; 04 Grand Cherokee 07-04; 03 F-150 05-03; 01 Silverado 03-01; 00 Jimmy 04-00; 99 Sierra 01-99; 96 Mustang GT 01-98;97 Ram 99-96; 96 Jimmy 00-96; 90 Escort GT 96-92; 89 Ranger 96-91; 84 Omni 92-89; 76 Malibu 90-89; 78 LeMans 94-88; 85 Escort 88-87; 82 Lynx 93-86; 75 Sierra 87-85

  15. #14
    6.2 Liter LS3 V8 richmond2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    3,721
    Thanks
    190
    Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
    My Ride
    2009 Pontiac G8 V6

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    at this point there are 3 choices for 3 different buyers so to an extent they do NOT compete but the "dark horse" so to speak is the much cheaper non PIP Prius that sells in the 200K range mostly on the much lower selling price

  16. #15
    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC Railfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    388
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Re: First Drive: Ford C-Max Energi

    So will a volt-type CUV by Chevy ever show up? I e-mailed Chevy with this question, telling them that I had just looked at the C-Max and really was intrigued with it. Chevys response was that as far as Customer Service was concerned there was no information available, but that they would forward my inquiry to the appropriate "cubical" (my word not theirs).

    So I guess its anybodys guess whether or not Chevy or GM has anything coming out to compete with the C-Max in the near future....or even the mid-term future, especially in the USA. My lease is up on my Malibu next fall, and while I like the Malibu, the taller sitting, five passenger, five door, electric hybrid C-Max definately has my attention.
    "Common Practice Does Not Necessarily Mean Common Sense"

    '09 Vue, '11 Malibu LTZ.

  17. Remove Advertisements
    GM Inside News
    Advertisements
     

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v4.1.2