Finally: GM getting ready to Invade Toyota Country

[Psionic Wibbly]

GM reshaping itself to take on Toyota

Automaker to rely on fewer platforms in bid to challenge rival in every segment

CHRIS VANDER DOELEN, CanWest News Service

Published: Tuesday, January 02, 2007

some quotes

"General Motors is about to make a big lunge for Toyota's lunch".

"GM will be going head-to-head with Toyota everywhere, in every segment"

"In North America GM's new Korean-built small cars are gaining market share, and beating Toyota's pants off in China which will shortly be the most important market in the world".

"They're even getting into the micro pickup market so they can challenge Toyota throughout the Third World, or the "emerging markets," as GM calls them".

"In short, they're getting ready to invade Toyota country".

"GM knows it can compete at the small end. It has proved this to itself with Daewoo, the bankrupt former Korean manufacturer that GM has transformed into the finest low-cost producer of small vehicles".

"In Korea, GM has really started to move on market share, finally, They were at nine per cent. Now they're at about 11 per cent. As recently as a couple of years ago, GM had a market share of about three per cent in the entire Asia-Pacific region. Share has since more than doubled to about 6.8 per cent".

Toyota will soon be fighting for every one of its sales in the small markets they used to dominate either with far better products or by default because GM wasn't even trying. Not anymore.

Full article.....

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...d2d504b7ff&p=2

refreshing to see a positive article about GM

[spaz]

saying that daewoo is the finest low cost producer of vehicles is saying that theyre the best at building cheap pieces of trash. When are we going to see GM global platforms and engines coming from daewoo? theres no reason why we should still be dealing with the same basic cars that they were selling 5 years ago.

[guitarlix]

GM is the new Toyota. This is funny.

Don't tell anyone, but General Motors is about to make a big lunge for Toyota's lunch.

For as long as most of us can remember, Toyota has been the company renowned for building high-quality small cars and trucks, and, recently, large ones. It made huge profits from a wide array of vehicles built on only a handful of vehicle platforms it used around the world.

GM was the company that couldn't make a good small car or pickup truck to save its own life, the company that built a bewildering selection of vehicles on different architectures for every continent.

They built high-volume platforms designed for North America, unique vehicle architectures for the German market, rear-wheel drive chassis for the Australian market and special architectures for Swedish cars.

GM was also the company that couldn't make a decent profit most years, despite being the biggest car company in the world.

Those things are about to change, judging by what I heard recently during an interview with Nick Reilly, group vice-president of GM in charge of the Asia-Pacific region.

The change has been under way for years, said Reilly, an Australian product of the Holden group, GM's car company Down Under. And what GM is doing is turning itself inside out.

In the end, the new GM will look and act a lot like ... Toyota.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by spaz

saying that daewoo is the finest low cost producer of vehicles is saying that theyre the best at building cheap pieces of trash. When are we going to see GM global platforms and engines coming from daewoo? theres no reason why we should still be dealing with the same basic cars that they were selling 5 years ago.

Opel Antara / Saturn VUE is a new Daewoo.

Does the piece note that GM has abandoned the minivan market, where Toyota is now a leader?

[IROCNROL1]

Moving in the right direction, at least.

[Ming]

"They're even getting into the micro pickup market so they can challenge Toyota throughout the Third World, or the "emerging markets," as GM calls them".

Some have been critical of GM's move to produce H3's (probably mostly because they are either V8 die-hards, or eviro-weenies - so both sides of the spectrum hate the H3) in Africa, but I love seeing GM do this.

I'm tired of seeing the tourist safari trucks in African countries and the shiny white relief trucks in to 3rd world countries of two varieties: Land Rover and Toyota Land Cruiser.

Or even in Iraq, where the U.S. presence is so strong and where, in the Middle East, GM has an established presence, the visitors in Baghdad go riding around in more shiny white Toyotas.

Time for GM to establish HUMMER as a viable choice for rough-terrain countries, and the H3 is packaged in the right way (no matter what U.S.-based 80 mile-per-hour highway driving SUV poseurs think - off roading capability is important, as is fuel economy and a smaller overall vehicle size) to do this.

Kinda off topic, but I'm surprised that DCX hasn't done more to promote Jeep worldwide in the same way- especially with the new 4 door Wrangler.

[nadepalma]

I think it's too early to pop the champagne or start celebrating, but the the basis of the article is good. Calling GM the new Toyota is a bit too optimistic, but certainly the fact that GM will consolidate platforms and build more products from a set of common components is a good thing.

Just look at Toyota on this one point alone: in the past the Camry platform has been the basis for the Camry, Camry Solara, Highlander, RX330, ES350, Sienna, etc. That's pretty good from being derived from one set of common mechanicals. Obviously they aren't all EXACTLY the same, but still the point holds true that this is incredible volume from a set of engineered components.

As GM scales down their operations and becomes more integrated, they will certainly become more of a force to be reconed with.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by Ming

Some have been critical of GM's move to produce H3's (probably mostly because they are either V8 die-hards, or eviro-weenies - so both sides of the spectrum hate the H3) in Africa, but I love seeing GM do this.

I'm tired of seeing the tourist safari trucks in African countries and the shiny white relief trucks in to 3rd world countries of two varieties: Land Rover and Toyota Land Cruiser.

Or even in Iraq, where the U.S. presence is so strong and where, in the Middle East, GM has an established presence, the visitors in Baghdad go riding around in more shiny white Toyotas.

Time for GM to establish HUMMER as a viable choice for rough-terrain countries, and the H3 is packaged in the right way (no matter what U.S.-based 80 mile-per-hour highway driving SUV poseurs think - off roading capability is important, as is fuel economy and a smaller overall vehicle size) to do this.

Kinda off topic, but I'm surprised that DCX hasn't done more to promote Jeep worldwide in the same way- especially with the new 4 door Wrangler.

I see what you mean and I agree.

But for some reason, I don't think this necessarily what they meant in the "micro-pickup market". A lot of micro-pickups around the world are actually FWD derived products. If you look at vechiles like the Chevy Montana in Brazil or the Fiat Strada/Adventure in Argentina, I believe this is more along the lines of a micro-pickup (I could be wrong though). In both cases the cars are beefed up versions of small/C-segment products ---- like the Chevy Celta or Fiat Palio.

Just my two cents, I could be wrong.

But the overall point remains -- GM needs to be in this segment.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by spaz

saying that daewoo is the finest low cost producer of vehicles is saying that theyre the best at building cheap pieces of trash. When are we going to see GM global platforms and engines coming from daewoo? theres no reason why we should still be dealing with the same basic cars that they were selling 5 years ago.

I see what you mean spaz, but remember that GM has been updating what they have to keep them afloat while also working behind the scenes to make things viable and integerated moving forward. That's probably one reason we haven't seen the next Lacetti/Nubira or Tacuma/Rezzo as of yet b/c they are most likely going to new GM-derived platforms (likely the next Astra platform as the Chevy WTCC Showcar previewed).

As for the rest of it, regardless of what we think of Daewoo in America, the impact it has had on GM is enormous. Besides giving them small cars (crappy or not) they are competing in markets and segments they never could exist in before. Furthermore, GM has learned a few lessons from Daewoo and even some of their staff has been transferred to Detroit to help with processes around the world (their main manufacturing engineer is even working at GMNA to better tolerances for panel gaps, etc).

Besides, in a few years, my hope is that GMDAT will be seen as nothing more than an integral part of GM itself -- much like GM-Europe/GM-Opel or GM-Holden is today. When that finally comes about, it will no longer have the same stigma attached to it, IMHO.

[GM-Joe]

Originally Posted by spaz

saying that daewoo is the finest low cost producer of vehicles is saying that theyre the best at building cheap pieces of trash. When are we going to see GM global platforms and engines coming from daewoo? theres no reason why we should still be dealing with the same basic cars that they were selling 5 years ago.

yea, daewoo is probably garbage, but cheap stuff always is. i know i haven't seen a toyoda paseo in 5 years; those came out in what 1992?

i do like the fact GM has some nice relationships with the Chinese automakers so they should have many perspectives how to build a cheap piece of garbage that developing countries will love.

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by GM-Joe

i do like the fact GM has some nice relationships with the Chinese automakers so they should have many perspectives how to build a cheap piece of garbage that developing countries will love.

That relationship has more to do with the Chinese government forcing outside companies to pair up with a domestic manufacturer in China than out of any real "need" by foreign companies. GM can just as easily set up their own factory and get their own works (as they are doing in India or other markets around the world), but in China its the law. Believe it or not, the Japanese did this in the 1930s as well -- forcing American car companies that built products in Japan (and at the time there were many of them, including marques like Studebaker) to pair up with a Japanese car company. This was done in part b/c of nationalistic pride (and as the Japanese government started to become expansionist), but also so the Japanese companies could learn American processes (what irony that GM did the same thing to Toyota at NUMMI 50 years later). But the same holds true for China today. Companies like Nanjing, SAIC, Great Wall, Chery, Danfong, etc. pair up with foreigners to learn a few things as well as b/c they are forced to do so.

So overall, I doubt they offer very much by way of engineering expertise or the like. If anything, they're probably good at telling companies how to cut corners, etc.

Also, regardless of what folks think of GMDAT, remember that emerging markets and 3rd world nations might not be in an economic position to purchase the best built products that Europe or America has to offer. In many of these markets, a reliable and safe infrastructure might not exist. Nor does a wealthly enough population to support such an investment. So the fact that GM might build a line of "cheap pieces of garbage" to sell to the masses in such markets isn't a source of shame for GM but merely what their markets can accept for the time. Remember, cars like the VW Bettle or Citroen DS or Ford Model T or Fiat Cinquecento put the world on wheels and were as cheap as they came and put the masses behind the wheel of their own vehicles. But there is no shame in that. Brands like Proton and Dacia do this today and they serve a purpose (or even exinct brands like Innocenti or Standard for that matter).

GM's foray into such markets shouldn't be judged by the same eyes or standards that we judge our cars here in the States. Doing so would be a dis-service to GM and to the markets they are intended for.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Opel Antara / Saturn VUE is a new Daewoo.

Does the piece note that GM has abandoned the minivan market, where Toyota is now a leader?

Better not mention that, as it might detract from the optimism this article provides.

This piece also doesn't seem to mention how GM has stopped trying in the midsize pickup segment.

[Ming]

Originally Posted by nadepalma

I see what you mean and I agree.

But for some reason, I don't think this necessarily what they meant in the "micro-pickup market". A lot of micro-pickups around the world are actually FWD derived products. If you look at vechiles like the Chevy Montana in Brazil or the Fiat Strada/Adventure in Argentina, I believe this is more along the lines of a micro-pickup (I could be wrong though).
But the overall point remains -- GM needs to be in this segment.

No you're right, nadepalma. I guess I just went off on a tangent with the H3 thing. I'd like to see the Chevy Montana do well in other markets, I was just expecting GM to continue to follow Isuzu and GM Brazil's products like the D-Max and the Brazilian S-10 (with diesel 4-cyl.). I hadn't considered that the Montana might be what GM is going to try to push, but that would seem to be smart given rising fuel prices --- as long as the Montana has the durability to last in 3rd world countries. I'm interested to see how GM Brazil helps develop small trucks for GM. There is also the overlooked and inexpensive Daewoo Labo for cities in less rich countries.

Montana:


GM Brazil S-10:

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by Ming

No you're right, nadepalma. I guess I just went off on a tangent. I'd like to see the Chevy Montana do well in other markets, I was just expecting GM to continue to follow Isuzu and GM Brazil's products like the D-Max and the Brazilian S-10 (with diesel 4-cyl.). I hadn't considered that the Montana might be what GM is going to try to push, but that would seem to be smart given rising fuel prices --- as long as the Montana has the durability to last in 3rd world countries.

Montana:


GM Brazil S-10:

No the points you made were good Ming. I feel the same way -- that GM needs to push to assert themselves in that type of segment with Hummer (along with DCX pushing Jeep in those locations). Obviously there is a market out there and they need to attack it as much as they can. Building H3s in South Africa should help that as well since they will have access to the rest of the African nations as well as setting up exports.

As for cars like the Fiat Strada and Chevy Montana, they really do serve a purpose and are popular in such markets. But fuel prices aside, the other concern is cost. GM might make more money and fatter margins by beefing up a FWD platform like the Celta's (which is Corsa based) and making it more rugged for bad Brazilian roads than by importing a D-Max or other truck platform, you know what I mean? Nevertheless they need to attack the more rugged truck market as well around the world. Just today Fiat and their Indian partner, Tata, announced a new truck for the Argentine and European markets based on the Tata TL Spint -- it might not be fancy, but it certainly doesn't have to be for such markets.

As for the S-10 in the foto, it amazes me how much GM do Brazil can do when they have a used platform to work from. This S-10 looks much better then the one we had from a few years back. Seems like parts and vehicles can be made new no matter what. Like the Buick Regal's updates in China are really tasteful inside and out -- very nicely done -- even the Chevy Lumina version they sell in the Phillippines. Good to see.

[supermoto]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Opel Antara / Saturn VUE is a new Daewoo.

Does the piece note that GM has abandoned the minivan market, where Toyota is now a leader?

That's like saying the Chevy Impala is a leader in it's segment. Seems to me the Sienna is no better than 3rd place and half the sales of the Chrysler twins. If that were a domestic model, no one would call that a segment leader.