FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

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Thread: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

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    FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame
    Larry P. Vellequette
    January 9, 2017 @ 1:30 pm
    autonews.come

    DETROIT -- Fiat Chrysler has dramatically altered its product course and will now bring its new Jeep Grand Wagoneer back to life as a body-on-frame SUV, after nearly two years of claiming that it would be unibody like almost all other luxury nameplates.

    In comments to reporters at the Detroit auto show, FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne confirmed Monday that the company now plans to build both a Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer as body-on-frame vehicles. The new SUVs will be built at a retooled Warren Truck Assembly plant in suburban Detroit, which now builds the current-generation Ram 1500.

    The abrupt switch in product plans is likely to mean that the automaker’s dream of a $140,000 Grand Wagoneer to compete against the Range Rover, as laid out in November by Jeep brand boss Mike Manley, won’t happen.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    If this still means they plan on a $140,000 Grand Wagoneer, I'm going to laugh when Jeep does a more expensive SUV than the Escalade.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    Seems to make the most sense from a "bang for your buck" perspective. FCA will reap fatter margins and more profit from such a move (which can only help them get out from under a mountain of debt). It also might make the most sense in light of juggling production at different plants (and realizing that some plants can't be expanded upon due to restrictions in their footprint, etc).

    However, I can't help but feel that they may have missed an opportunity here.

    FCA does a great job with the Ram 1500, and there's no doubt that the IRS they developed for the 1500 can help "civilize" any product derived from that platform. That can be a great foundation to build on, but can they make it "Jeep-enough" for such a large vehicle? And assuming they can (and I think they will), the next question that comes to mind is, will it be "luxurious enough" for the price point they are looking at? By that, what I mean is: Will it be more of an "off road focused vehicle" (in which case, who cares if it's BOF), or will it be more of an aspirational/luxury car (in which case, perhaps BOF isn't the best solution)?

    Granted, the Escalade is BOF and has a huge following. But they aren't charging $100K+ on the average Escalade and it's rumored that the "Grand Wagoneer" will be well north of the $100,000 mark.
    Last edited by nadepalma; 01-09-2017 at 01:07 PM.
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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    So do they have a new platform to build it on or are they going to go the GM route and drop it on the ram chassis?

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    More FCA pipe dreams.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    The Wagoneer will not the Range Rover fighter they once claimed it to be. It will be a Suburban (et all) competitor.

    And for those questioning the off road chops do not forget that the Power Wagon does extremely well off-road.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    DETROIT -- Fiat Chrysler has dramatically altered its product course and will now bring its new Jeep Grand Wagoneer back to life as a body-on-frame SUV, after nearly two years of claiming that it would be unibody like almost all other luxury nameplates.
    Ummmm what??? GL and RR are a "toughened" uni-body, but the rest aren't. Escalade, Navigator, QX, LX are all BOF.

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    If this still means they plan on a $140,000 Grand Wagoneer, I'm going to laugh when Jeep does a more expensive SUV than the Escalade.
    We both know there should already be a V-sport and a true Platinum/Excutive that should have cracked the $100k demarcation line. Once again a missed opportunity in a hot market by GM/Caddy. Good on Jeep, even if its Pie in the sky to a certain extent. Although a Hellcat Grand Wagoneer I could see hitting it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambalanche View Post
    So do they have a new platform to build it on or are they going to go the GM route and drop it on the ram chassis?
    Probably the New/Revised Chassis that will debut next year (2018) with the new RAM.

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    Seems to make the most sense from a "bang for your buck" perspective. FCA will reap fatter margins and more profit from such a move (which can only help them get out from under a mountain of debt). It also might make the most sense in light of juggling production at different plants (and realizing that some plants can't be expanded upon due to restrictions in their footprint, etc).

    However, I can't help but feel that they may have missed an opportunity here.

    FCA does a great job with the Ram 1500, and there's no doubt that the IRS they developed for the 1500 can help "civilize" any product derived from that platform. That can be a great foundation to build on, but can they make it "Jeep-enough" for such a large vehicle? And assuming they can (and I think they will), the next question that comes to mind is, will it be "luxurious enough" for the price point they are looking at? By that, what I mean is: Will it be more of an "off road focused vehicle" (in which case, who cares if it's BOF), or will it be more of an aspirational/luxury car (in which case, perhaps BOF isn't the best solution)?

    Granted, the Escalade is BOF and has a huge following. But they aren't charging $100K+ on the average Escalade and it's rumored that the "Grand Wagoneer" will be well north of the $100,000 mark.
    Obviously they are going the GM route and utilizing the corporate PU/SUV platform. The IRS/Air Suspension is already best in class, so that is a great starting point. It should be able to offer good on road manners while allowing it to be fairly off road worthy, but not the best rock crawler. Obviously the offroad/luxury tradeoff hasn't hurt RR at all, they can't build them fast enough, so it can be done. Can they execute is the bigger question.
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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    I've wondered for years why Dodge didn't offer a Suburban competitor based on the Ram. Let's face it, it looks pretty bitchin' and lord knows turning a truck into an SUV isn't rocket science. Years ago Sergio Marchionne said his biggest regret was not making the Durango a Jeep. Looks like he's finally got his chance, even if this isn't the cleanest fit with Jeep.
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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    Quote Originally Posted by sfbreh View Post
    If this still means they plan on a $140,000 Grand Wagoneer, I'm going to laugh when Jeep does a more expensive SUV than the Escalade.
    FCA's game plan is typically the "cheaper than the competition" option. I'm sure they'll attempt to undercut the Tahoe/Yukon/Escalade.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    I knew this is coming. FCA is cash poor right now.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    The business plan of taking any Jeep product to a $140K level is a dubious one.

    Chrysler has always sought to undercut the competition with a cheap unibody approach; aiming for a $140K price point is lunacy.

    But a large BOF Jeep product could be very lucrative.

    Vintage Wagoneers and Power Wagons were kick ass, this could be something.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    Quote Originally Posted by CJH View Post
    Obviously they are going the GM route and utilizing the corporate PU/SUV platform. The IRS/Air Suspension is already best in class, so that is a great starting point. It should be able to offer good on road manners while allowing it to be fairly off road worthy, but not the best rock crawler. Obviously the offroad/luxury tradeoff hasn't hurt RR at all, they can't build them fast enough, so it can be done. Can they execute is the bigger question.
    I think they can execute it but they big question is how? Will the V6 VM diesel engine will be available for the Grand Wagoneer as well?

    On a sidenote off-topic, would be nice to see a new body-on-frame car but it's a pipe-dream...

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    Quote Originally Posted by Stéphane Dumas View Post
    I think they can execute it but they big question is how? Will the V6 VM diesel engine will be available for the Grand Wagoneer as well?

    On a sidenote off-topic, would be nice to see a new body-on-frame car but it's a pipe-dream...
    I have not doubts the diesel v6 will be available if nothing more than to offset CAFE. It will probably have than and an updated Hemi or a turbo'd Pentastar would be my guess.

    Yeah, the ship has sailed on the days of the BOF car.
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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    Quote Originally Posted by nadepalma View Post
    Seems to make the most sense from a "bang for your buck" perspective. FCA will reap fatter margins and more profit from such a move (which can only help them get out from under a mountain of debt). It also might make the most sense in light of juggling production at different plants (and realizing that some plants can't be expanded upon due to restrictions in their footprint, etc).

    However, I can't help but feel that they may have missed an opportunity here.

    FCA does a great job with the Ram 1500, and there's no doubt that the IRS they developed for the 1500 can help "civilize" any product derived from that platform. That can be a great foundation to build on, but can they make it "Jeep-enough" for such a large vehicle? And assuming they can (and I think they will), the next question that comes to mind is, will it be "luxurious enough" for the price point they are looking at? By that, what I mean is: Will it be more of an "off road focused vehicle" (in which case, who cares if it's BOF), or will it be more of an aspirational/luxury car (in which case, perhaps BOF isn't the best solution)?

    Granted, the Escalade is BOF and has a huge following. But they aren't charging $100K+ on the average Escalade and it's rumored that the "Grand Wagoneer" will be well north of the $100,000 mark.
    Good Points.

    The RAM 1500 rides well with the air suspension and the Power Wagon allows all of the Off-Road potential a larger Grand Wagoneer will need for 95% of potential buyers.

    Overall, think it is a smart move.

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    Re: FCA shifts course, will make Jeep Grand Wagoneer body-on-frame

    yall fail to realize this was the plan all along.... about 3 years ago when talks of a New Wagoneer came about, they said it would have a 6.4L Hemi Ram uses as a Regular Option.. Ram's 6.4l is NOT a SRT Hemi (see Powerwagon), its built for Towing which a BOF Utility is also used for. Then recently those Frontal Spyshots of what looks like a plan to be HUGE body Wagoneer sitting next to a current Grand Cherokee which by comparison is Tiny next to the Wagoneer.


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