Chrysler still Big, but loses primacy in Minivans

[Ming]

Chrysler seeks old spot in sun
USAToday
James R. Healy

Chrysler Group's minivan folks must gnash their teeth a lot.

Chrysler put the minivan on the map and started a craze when it launched the 1984 Dodge Caravan and Plymouth Voyager, van bodies on modified versions of the front-wheel-drive, K-car chassis (Dodge Aries, Plymouth Reliant).

It took rivals about forever to decode the Chrysler formula: overwhelming conveniences inside, fairly trim dimensions outside and carlike behavior underneath. Starting with Honda's 1999 Odyssey, Chrysler lost its primacy. It's still the big player, holding 38% of the minivan market, but its Dodge Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country aren't viewed as the gold standards. Toyota's Sienna currently gets that nod. Honda's redesigned '05 Odyssey, coming this fall, could snatch away the crown.

To stay in the hunt, Chrysler invested $400 million in van platforms with holes in the floor where the second and third rows of seats could tumble out of sight into storage tubs, without removing the seats. It also adopted other good ideas, many already in use by rivals, to give its '05 Dodge Grand Caravan and Chrysler Town & Country the latest features.

Chrysler calls the underfloor seat storage Stow 'n Go. It's standard on long-wheelbase versions of the vans (except the Grand Caravan SE) and not available on the short-wheelbase models.

Nowadays, a singing, dancing, juking and jiving third-row van seat is no big deal. Honda brought us that feature years ago on the Odyssey. But stowage of the second row is unique.

Before we get wrapped up in the seats, here's a summary of the '05 Chrysler and Dodge minivans: quiet, easy and pleasant to drive, good-looking, classy inside, good crash-test scores — everything to make them solid contenders except on two fronts.

The Chrysler and Dodge vans can't claim refinement to the nth degree like Toyota's Sienna. And they lack a record for above-average quality that Toyota and Honda enjoy, in spite of some flubs. Flubs? Remember those faulty sliding doors on the early Odysseys, or the fuel-tank leak that led to a recall of the '04 Sienna? Didn't think so. Toyota and Honda have Teflon skins in that regard.

DaimlerChrysler
Chrysler's minivans have seats that fold flat into the floor.

Stow 'n Go is the marquee feature, so let's go there:

• Myth: The seats fold easily.

The third row's not bad, even providing numbers 1, 2, 3 in large print on the appropriate handle or strap, so you'd have to be daft not to do the steps in the right order.

But the second row requires you first to slide the front seats forward, then lift a carpeted mat to expose the lid to the storage bin, then fool around with the second-row seats to align them just right, and only then release their latches and rotate them down into the bin. Chrysler says you quickly get the hang of it and can drop both rows within 30 seconds. Literally, yes; gracefully, not likely.

• Fact: The second and third rows, when stored under the floor, open an enormous cargo area without removing seats as in previous Chrysler minivans.

And the underfloor bins can be used to tote a large amount of cargo, out of sight of prying eyes, when the seats are upright.

• Myth: There's no downside to Stow 'n Go.

The bulk of the bins under the van means the spare tire has moved to a less-handy spot, and the bins eliminate space for the optional all-wheel drive (AWD), so it's no longer available.

Chrysler says fewer than 5% bought AWD, and it's available in the minivan-like Chrysler Pacifica.

By contrast, the Toyota Sienna's chief engineer wouldn't let that redesigned van on the market without optional AWD. Hooray for him, boo for Chrysler. Some folks need both AWD and a minivan.

Full Article Here

[mbukukanyau]

[/quote]
I do not think the criticism of DC is justified. This article is just opinion. Other than the Quality issue, all else is opinion. I think DC will recapture the market. Its vans are way cool. I would go with the DC minivans any day.

[Swahili]

I'm not a fan of minivans myself but I still think Chrysler vans are one of the best deals for the money with regards to the competition. And to be very honest, around where I live, I feel confident saying I see almost one Caravan/Voyager to one of every other minivan combined.

[ByTheLake]

I agree ... more of an 'opinion' article to me, likely from a klutzy author, too. I tried those 2nd row Stow-n-Go seats myself and they were a breeze ... no big deal at all.

Regardless of where you stand on the article, it's easy to see how off-the-radar the GM minivans are. They are not even considered in the discussion.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Has anybody seen the rear of a current-generation Odyssey? It is so ugly that I would never dream of owning one.

Although I would never dream of a minivan... period, except maybe an Astro that I was able to shove a 350 underneath...

[boblutzfan]

One thing the author of that article did not mention is that the latest version of the DCX van is just a mid cycle refresh. Chrysler has all but said that they will have a totally redesigned minivan on the market in the next two years. The 2005 was a stop gap while they refine their formula.

The seats are very easy to operate and the underfloor storage is wonderful. As has already been mentioned, the GM CSVs do not even register on the minivan radar. They are already obsolete and they aren't even for sale yet. I will admit, they have a great new dashboard, but that isn't enough. By the time GM gets a new minivan on the market, there will be a new Honda (this fall) a new Sienna and new DCX vans in 2007.

I predict that the DCX will regain the minivan crown in 2007, if not sooner.

[GM-10]

all i know is that these are not nearly as bad as our minivans.

[montecarlolsus]

Maybe people are finally realizing the poor quality of Chrysler products.

[AJR]

Originally posted by montecarlolsus@Aug 13 2004, 05:35 AM
Maybe people are finally realizing the poor quality of Chrysler products.

You should read how many people on SiennaClub.org and OdyClub.com are former Chrysler minivan owners and have stated "never again".

The Chrysler minivans, in my opinion, have never recovered from the bad transmissions in the 90s. When the Odyssey came out with its "magic seat", it was the dawning of a new era in minivans, and people had an alternative from the Chrysler minivans that weren't holding together very well. Now the Toyota Sienna comes out with its best minivan yet and takes the market by storm. Honda's 2005 is suppose to wow us with its numerous innovations, so that is something to look at as well.

In a nutshell, with a terrible quality reputation throughout the 90s, Chrysler pretty much handed its minivan success to Honda and Toyota.

[Rex Raider]

The article's author is still clueless, and is grasping to make the article compelling (which it isn't.).

The middle seat stow n go operation doesn't have to be graceful. We aren't figure skaters. How often is anything that Americans do very graceful?

The stow-n-go stops 4wd? Big deal. As Chrysler says, only 5% of buyers care about that. And you can still buy it, just not with the stow-n-go. Does this guy want miracles? I want to fly to NY, but the plane isn't allowed to leave the ground. etc...

Stow-N-Go puts the spare tire into a less conveniently accessed spot? Who cares? What percentage of people have ever used their spare tire? ALL spare tires are inconvenient. Imagine you're on huge trip with the family and all their luggage, etc... in a standard sedan. When your tire blows out in the rainstorm, you have to get out, open the trunk, put all your belongings on the wet ground, and then take out the floor of the trunk to access the tire.

Although I think Chrysler still has a ways to go in reputation and quality, I would way sooner buy one of these than any other minivan on the market.

[montecarlolsus]

My sister had one of the Grand Caravans. It turned into such a lemon that she ended up trading it for a Chevy Venture. At least the Venture is quieter and doesnt strand her 3 times in 2 weeks.