Chrysler To Sell Diesel Engines In US; VW Moves 4,000 Diesels In October; GM??

[Canyonaro]

I have been asking GM to do this for years.

I want a VW TDI, but I don't want the VW.

[OLDSCHOOLGMFAN]

I like big diesels.

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by rsbaker

Colorado of course is a no brainer, and would certainly be readily accepted by the Pick-up trucking public where the Duramax is already well known.

Colyanzu would be traded in, in a heartbeat if they would drop a diesel in the Colorado/Canyon twins.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by OLDSCHOOLGMFAN

I like big diesels.

Ya? Well I like big...butts and I cannot lie.

[benroethig]

Originally Posted by motorman

since most filling stations in the states are self service and i know from observation that most diesel pump areas look like a toxic waste dump with diesel fuel and oil dry all over the place. when you spill diesel on the ground it does not evaporate like gasoline so you have a mess and very few if any women are going to fuel up there plus the smell take for ever to get off of your hands and clothes. diesels also require more oil changes and filter chages plus you can have fuel freeze up in cold weather and not to mention the alge problems in diesel tanks.

Those stations have have diesel. A lot don't and those that do, its only one double sided pump.

Originally Posted by chakis24

ok, so we'll make up a scenario. gas vw and diesel vw:

starting price is 2500 more.
gas: 23/30 combined: 27
diesel: 30/42 combined: 36

we'll use combined and say 50% highway/city.
here regular gas is 2.67 and diesel is 2.99.

10,000 miles per year.

gas: 371 gallons
diesel: 278

yearly cost:
gas: $991
diesel: $831

thats a $160 difference in yearly fuel consumption. this does not include the extra maintenance necessary in a diesel. even assuming the maintenance costs are the same, it would take 15.6 years to make your money back.

Its even worse than that. When fuel shot up, diesel as about $1-1.50 more expensive than gasoline. You couldn't save money on diesel because the price difference was more than the fuel economy gain.

[44 mpg by 2010]

Originally Posted by benroethig

Those stations have have diesel. A lot don't and those that do, its only one double sided pump.

Its even worse than that. When fuel shot up, diesel as about $1-1.50 more expensive than gasoline. You couldn't save money on diesel because the price difference was more than the fuel economy gain.

Is guess diesel availability is a regional issue. Here in NC it is readily available, probably 80% of stations.

Now let's look at your "worst case" price difference of diesel being $1.50 above $4.50 gasoline.

Take the average 2008 domestic passenger vehicle fuel economy according to NHTSA was 21 mpg (4.762 gallons/100 miles = $21.43/100 miles) and the Ford Mondeo Estate diesel at 45 mpg combined (2.222 gallons/100 miles = $13.33/100 miles)

Draw your own conclusions and I'll tow 2 tons with the Mondeo.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by 44 mpg by 2010

Is guess diesel availability is a regional issue. Here in NC it is readily available, probably 80% of stations.

Now let's look at your "worst case" price difference of diesel being $1.50 above $4.50 gasoline.

Take the average 2008 domestic passenger vehicle fuel economy according to NHTSA was 21 mpg (4.762 gallons/100 miles = $21.43/100 miles) and the Ford Mondeo Estate diesel at 45 mpg combined (2.222 gallons/100 miles = $13.33/100 miles)

Draw your own conclusions and I'll tow 2 tons with the Mondeo.

why would you take the average of "all passenger vehicles" and compare it to a one midsize diesel? i did the comparo above with the same exact vehicle with diesel only 30 cents more. when gas goes up, diesel goes up quicker. the conclusion isnt very convincing for the diesel. and that doesnt include the supply strain that will occur if people start using diesel en masse.

and i didnt realize vauxhaull sold that many diesels. maybe its the cost to make them u.s. compliant then that is stopping gm right now?

[44 mpg by 2010]

Originally Posted by chakis24

why would you take the average of "all passenger vehicles" and compare it to a one midsize diesel? i did the comparo above with the same exact vehicle with diesel only 30 cents more. when gas goes up, diesel goes up quicker. the conclusion isnt very convincing for the diesel. and that doesnt include the supply strain that will occur if people start using diesel en masse.

and i didnt realize vauxhaull sold that many diesels. maybe its the cost to make them u.s. compliant then that is stopping gm right now?

I used "the average 2008 domestic passenger vehicle fuel economy" (21 mpg) bacause that is approximately what the average domestic auto owner achieves.

We can do it again and include the "best" combined average that GM has, 30 mpg.
Gasoline @ $4.50 & diesel @ $6.00

Take the average 2008 domestic passenger vehicle fuel economy according to NHTSA was 21 mpg (4.762 gallons/100 miles @ $4.50/gallon = $21.43/100 miles)

Using the "best" GM domestic passenger vehicle fuel economy according to EPA was 30 mpg (3.33 gallons/100 miles @ $4.50/gallon = $14.98/100 miles)

And the Ford Mondeo Estate diesel at 45 mpg combined (2.222 gallons/100 miles @ $6.00/gallon = $13.33/100 miles)

You do realize that current domestic refining process generally yield 19.6 gallon of gasoline and 11 gallons of diesel per 42 gallons (1 barrel) of light sweet crude.

What you probably do NOT know is that there is an alternative process that yields 11 gallon of gasoline and 19.6 gallons of diesel per barrel. This process is common in Europe.

So balancing diesel supply versus demand should NOT BE AN ISSUE, particularly as fuel demand per vehicle would decreases 50% on average switching to diesel.

Currently, US refineries are running at between 84% and 88% capacity compared to almost MAX early 2008. Still stored finished fuel inventories are increasing due to decreased demand. And some are predicting refinery utalization as low as 78% capacity by Spring 2010. This may FORCE shut down of some of the less efficient refineries.

Regarding the Vauxhalls (Opels) ... take a look at the Fords, Volvos, Fiats, Hyundai/Kias, Mazdas, Minis, Nissans, and Subarus above 51 mpg(Imperial) combined cycle here
http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/sea...lConSearch.asp

And IF you are a truck person try
http://www.vca.gov.uk/vandata/vehicles.aspx

As for why not in the US ... the argument is over 0.250 grams/mile of NOx versus the US limit of 0.030 grams/mile NOx, IIRC (which some newer domestic gasoline vehicles will exceed unless abated).


Meanwhile VW has DEMONSTRATED "THE WILL" to solve the NOx and diesel particle problems for about $1,300 per vehicle (retail market "premium for 50 State compliant diesel"). Now, according to one source, VW has apparently increased the "premium" on their diesels to about $1,800 (about $500/diesel vehicle in ADDITIONAL PROFIT) because of demand.

At least that is the way I see it.