Chrysler To Sell Diesel Engines In US; VW Moves 4,000 Diesels In October; GM??

[Perian]

Originally Posted by brnwrng

that is not true...first car I looked up.

2010 VW Golf Edmunds
2.5L FWD 2.5L I5 Manual 25 mpg $17,490
TDI FWD 2.0L I4 T Manual 34 mpg $21,990
4500 difference...pretty close to the 5000 I originally posted. You are right they are not as high as the truck difference but there is still a significant change. 4500 buys a lot of gas in a lifetime and the 9mpg difference may never pay the difference.

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf/2010/index.html

The sedan is not comparable because it only comes in and automatic transmission for GAS and Manual for DIESEL.

You can not compare VW gas and diesel models. Equipment levels are very different. The TDI in the United States is marketed as an up-market vehicle. They can get away with this as supply does not equal demand.

In addition, the TDI qualifies for a government $1300 tax credit (credit; not deduction!).

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by brnwrng

that is not true...first car I looked up.

2010 VW Golf Edmunds
2.5L FWD 2.5L I5 Manual 25 mpg $17,490
TDI FWD 2.0L I4 T Manual 34 mpg $21,990
4500 difference...pretty close to the 5000 I originally posted. You are right they are not as high as the truck difference but there is still a significant change. 4500 buys a lot of gas in a lifetime and the 9mpg difference may never pay the difference.

http://www.edmunds.com/volkswagen/golf/2010/index.html

The sedan is not comparable because it only comes in and automatic transmission for GAS and Manual for DIESEL.

I'm trying to find the MB oil burners vs gas...But I just looked at the jetta tdi....and yes about 5k diff....however the TDI has a higher equipment level and more standard options than the S....

[Z16monte]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

A small truck that has a diesel would be good, but of course, it can't be the Colorado...that truck needs a clean-sheet redesign. I have friends who have purchased S10's and Sonomas in the past, and one that even has a Colorado from the first year they offered it....and even among them the state of the current Colorado is a joke.

Deisel would be good. Can't agree with your friends, the Colly is a much better truck than the S10 was. I've driven several S10s when new and My crew cab Xtreme is quieter, rides and handles better and is more comfortable. The 4x4s out do all but the ZR2 S10s as well My only complaints are the squeeling brakes and cheap ass speakers that blow every 6mos.
Ed

[MAK]

The VM Motori 2.9L Turbo-diesel V6 was supposed be available in the CTS in Europe, then GM shelved it. That motor is rated @ 250hp and 400 ft-lbs of torque. It would make a great motor for the Equinox, Colorado, Traverse (Lambdas), even a good lower level diesel option for 1/2-ton Silverados and Sierras.

[Novak454]

Absolutely. Make it something that can go across vehicle lines. A multiple displacement I-4, that could jump from the Spark and Cruze in a smaller displacement, and then to the CTS and Colorado in a larger form... Same block head, modify the internals for each application....

OR, just a nice small diesel V-6 for Caddy and trucks.... Europe, Asia, Assuies, and here could all use them.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by Novak454

Absolutely. Make it something that can go across vehicle lines. A multiple displacement I-4, that could jump from the Spark and Cruze in a smaller displacement, and then to the CTS and Colorado in a larger form... Same block head, modify the internals for each application....

OR, just a nice small diesel V-6 for Caddy and trucks.... Europe, Asia, Assuies, and here could all use them.

If they got on the same page for standards, but they're not.

[PhishPhood]

There's a very down to earth reason why GM, Ford, Toyota and most recently Honda have all come down against diesels in light vehicles. While the vehicles certainly are more fuel efficient and in some cases more fun to drive the continuing problem is the combination of a higher initial price of $2500 to $4000 and higher fuel prices.

While diesel right now is the same or slightly higher than gasoline if the fuel price graph starts going up again diesel fuel is going to end up higher than gasoline by $.50-$1.00 again just as it was in Spring of 08.

This combo is nearly impossible to overcome. The solution Europe uses is to tax gas higher than diesel. Here that's a non-flyer IMO.

[Uzzy]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

There's a very down to earth reason why GM, Ford, Toyota and most recently Honda have all come down against diesels in light vehicles. While the vehicles certainly are more fuel efficient and in some cases more fun to drive the continuing problem is the combination of a higher initial price of $2500 to $4000 and higher fuel prices.

While diesel right now is the same or slightly higher than gasoline if the fuel price graph starts going up again diesel fuel is going to end up higher than gasoline by $.50-$1.00 again just as it was in Spring of 08.

This combo is nearly impossible to overcome. The solution Europe uses is to tax gas higher than diesel. Here that's a non-flyer IMO.

How come diesel used to be so much cheaper here? Did the tax structure change?

[supermoto]

One time in history that diesel got up to near $1 more than gas, except where I live, and people think it will always do that. Most of the reason was the weak dollar and high crude prices made it advantageous for the Euros to import our diesel.

If the price difference on some VWs is because of added content, then the added cost of the diesel is not $4k. Since similar ones on option content are only $2500, they why make up a phony number? Sounds phishy to me.

[jaydee]

I think it's just that GM can't invest significantly into so many different alternative energies right now. They've got massive investments in fuel cells and battery, and I don't know how much they're spending on hybrids, but I imagine that's got a pretty good budget, cellulosic ethanol of course, and they also seem to be a leader right now in HCCI R/D. It'd be nice if they could throw money at all possible gasoline alternatives, but it's just not practical, and frankly I'm much more interested in battery, fuel cell, and HCCI than I am in diesel. And $1.50/gal Ethanol made from switchgrass could make all of this look silly in a few years.

Besides, even if GM did decide last year to get into diesel cars for NA, all the headlines would highlight that GM is following VW, behind the technology leader, yet again. So the mainstream market impact is negligible. Plus if everyone gets onboard with diesel, demand jumps and suddenly it's $1.50 more per gallon than gas. Not that far fetched.

[chakis24]

i dont know if diesel is really the answer. everyone forgets that when gas was 4 bucks a gallon, diesel was in the 5's (and its still higher than gas now).

not to mention if everyone starts using deisel, including the truckers that go millions of miles every year, who knows what the price ceiling will be. you dont save money buying deisel. theyre great for power and higher fuel economy, but not saving money.

[motorman]

since most filling stations in the states are self service and i know from observation that most diesel pump areas look like a toxic waste dump with diesel fuel and oil dry all over the place. when you spill diesel on the ground it does not evaporate like gasoline so you have a mess and very few if any women are going to fuel up there plus the smell take for ever to get off of your hands and clothes. diesels also require more oil changes and filter chages plus you can have fuel freeze up in cold weather and not to mention the alge problems in diesel tanks.

[V8GMT360 Guy]

One thing is for sure, a lot of half ton truck owners (myself included) would still love to see a diesel offering like the 4.5L duramax they canned a while back....

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by supermoto

One time in history that diesel got up to near $1 more than gas, except where I live, and people think it will always do that. Most of the reason was the weak dollar and high crude prices made it advantageous for the Euros to import our diesel.

If the price difference on some VWs is because of added content, then the added cost of the diesel is not $4k. Since similar ones on option content are only $2500, they why make up a phony number? Sounds phishy to me.

ok, so we'll make up a scenario. gas vw and diesel vw:

starting price is 2500 more.
gas: 23/30 combined: 27
diesel: 30/42 combined: 36

we'll use combined and say 50% highway/city.
here regular gas is 2.67 and diesel is 2.99.

10,000 miles per year.

gas: 371 gallons
diesel: 278

yearly cost:
gas: $991
diesel: $831

thats a $160 difference in yearly fuel consumption. this does not include the extra maintenance necessary in a diesel. even assuming the maintenance costs are the same, it would take 15.6 years to make your money back.

[bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by mjd1001

A small truck that has a diesel would be good, but of course, it can't be the Colorado...that truck needs a clean-sheet redesign. I have friends who have purchased S10's and Sonomas in the past, and one that even has a Colorado from the first year they offered it....and even among them the state of the current Colorado is a joke.

Have to disagree with you and your friends. I too have owned 4 S-10's over the past 22 years. Had 1st and 2nd generation S-10's. My present Colorado is head and shoulders above them. Has more room, better mileage, more power and rides much better than the S-10. I know a few others with Colorados and each of them loves their trucks. And all have been problem free.