Chrysler may add Hybrids in 2006

[Ming]

Chrysler may add hybrids in 2006
PT Cruiser and minivans are likely candidate vehicles
JOHN O’DELL
Los Angeles Times
August 22, 2004

DaimlerChrysler’s Chrysler Group doesn’t intend to cede the growing hybrid car market to rivals such as Ford Motor Co. and will offer front-wheel-drive hybrid vehicles in the United States perhaps as early as 2006, group Chief Executive Dieter Zetsche said in an interview.

Zetsche’s remarks came during a preview in Santa Barbara, Calif., of the 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee and the new diesel-powered Jeep Liberty. Chrysler, based in Auburn Hills, Mich., has been emphasizing diesel vehicles rather than hybrids in the United States to bolster fuel-efficiency ratings. Hybrids combine gasoline engines and electric motors to reduce gas consumption.

Zetsche would not identify the vehicles that Chrysler might introduce as hybrids, but the PT Cruiser and Dodge and Chrysler minivans have been viewed as likely candidates.

He did say that rather than develop its own hybrid systems, DaimlerChrysler probably will license the technology from another manufacturer.

Toyota Motor Corp., which developed the first retail hybrid with the 1998 Prius sedan in Japan, has said it will sell its system to all comers and has licensed its hybrid technology to Nissan Motor Co. for a 2005 Altima hybrid sedan. A Toyota spokesman said Wednesday that he wasn’t aware of a deal with Chrysler.

In addition to Toyota, Honda Motor Co. sells hybrids in the United States, and Ford plans to begin selling a hybrid version of its Escape sport-utility vehicle this year.

Chrysler has developed a “mild” hybrid version of its heavy-duty Dodge Ram pickup, using a diesel engine and an electric motor that will provide additional power in certain driving situations. Dodge plans to sell only a few hundred per year, mainly to government fleets and construction companies.

By emphasizing diesel technology, which is popular in Europe, Chrysler seemed to be giving up on the critical California and Eastern Seaboard markets, where diesel passenger vehicles can’t be sold because of strict air pollution regulations.

The diesel Liberty SUV, for example, will get about 25 percent better fuel economy than the gasoline version — 22 miles per gallon in the city and 27 mpg on the highway.

Article Here

[Ming]

Will GM's minivans at the very least get Displacement on Demand, I wonder?

[jro4566]

A hybrid minivan to me seems like a good choice, further bolstering hybrid technology in the automotive field.

[barcodedorganic]

laserwizard your lack of understanding how the germans do business is apparent as well...

hybrids aren't the second coming of the automobile they don't even offer vastly improved gas mileage...at MOST 5-8 miles per gallon with less power which can be duplicated by a properly built and equipped four cylinder hybrids are just on the showrooms now because people are duped by sloppy salesman telling flat out lies...

it's not a bad technology but i'd rather see alternative fuel vehicles start coming out...and getting their own ground work layed in at fueling stations...

chrysler has been developing hybrids for a while even one of the recent restructuring deals with ford and another outfit has proven they want to explore hybrids because hybrids generate sales and help CAFE standards

[stewacide]

Originally posted by barcodedorganic@Aug 23 2004, 01:54 AM
chrysler has been developing hybrids for a while even one of the recent restructuring deals with ford and another outfit has proven they want to explore hybrids because hybrids generate sales and help CAFE standards

I think you're thinking of the Ford/DCX deal to buy Ballard's automotive power unit, which is a play for hydrogen.

[GM_Guy81]

Or you could just develope hydrogen on your own, like GM. :lol:

I agree with barcodedorganic, hybrids are a bandaid at best, they dont really offer huge fuel savings and they are mostly marketing hype. The true future is in alternative fuel sources, not hybrids.

[KingElvis]

Dodge had an extremely practical and workable hybrid in the Durango but they refused to release it.

It was simply an electric motor connected to the front drive wheels. It offered hybrid power and all wheel drive in one stroke. If people will pay 3 thousand more for four wheel drive, why wouldn't they pay $3Gs more for four wheel drive AND hybrid power?

Those who claim hybrids 'have less power' simply don't have any knowledge of hybrid vehicle development. In fact, the Durango hybrid had MORE power than their precious R/T 5.9 Durango - it was faster than the 360 V-8 'muscle' model, but got better mileage than the V-6 Durango - and this was a pretty crude and cheap system that didn't employ the integral starter type motor that most hybrids use.

Soon Honda will have a V-6 Accord hybrid that will be the FASTEST Accord they make, and it will get 4 cylinder gas mileage.

The debate over whether hybrids are worth the effort has been over long ago. Hybrids will always get better gas mileage in city running than comparable vehicle with ICE only.

The idea that diesels and hybrids are opposed in patently ridiculous. The hybrid technology boosts diesel mileage at least as much as gas engine mileage.

The so called 'problem' with hybrids is the expense of them, yet when makers try to tack the system on as an option, that makes them much more expensive. But even as an option, the drivetrain is ten times cheaper than current hydrogen fuel cell technology, and offers about 50% of the efficiency of fuel cells - that's a slam dunk for the efficacy of hybrids and that doesn't even take into account that you don't need to create a brand new hydrogen fuel infrastructure.

Hybrid deniers should go read the current Car and Driver test of high mileage cars before they make demonstrably false claims. C&D verdict is crystal clear: hybrids have an advantage.

[pkd87]

towards the begining of the year Autoline detroit had a gm guy on their and said they have a design that will change the hybrid world and could become the standard. Anyone know what it is or what cars will get it or when ?

[Rex Raider]

Originally posted by pkd87@Aug 23 2004, 02:58 PM
towards the begining of the year Autoline detroit had a gm guy on thair and said they have a design that will change the hybrid world and could become the standard. Anyone know what it is or what cars will get it or when ?

He was probably talking about GM's fuelcell vehicles. GM is focussing more time and money on fuelcells rather than hybrids.

[barcodedorganic]

NOW they're cheaper who's to say in ten years the hydrogen technology won't catch up to the hybrids?

Hybrids are no better on the enviornment and often times MORE harmful with battery disposal and the fuel burnt for the energy plants to put a charge in the batteries...EVERY hybrid manufacturer trying to achieve performance has gone to a similar set up as the "crude and cheap" durango hybrid by offering electrical motor power to one set of wheels while offering power from a internal combustion engine to another set of wheels the mitsubishi eclipse concept offered the equivalent of over 300hp with both the engine and the motor activated

it's a stop gap measure and still is too dependant on crude oil something hydrogen is not...hydrogen power will have NO harmful emissions leaving only a few drops of highly purified drinking water and making equal power as an internal combustion engine...and in ten years wil be small enough and cheap enough to use on higher end cars...which will trickle down to cheaper cars...in the five years after that...now imagine if the big oil companies weren't trying to stifle the production of hydrogen cars...that hold a lot of sway in the WORLDS ECONOMY and how much faster hydrogen cars would be put on the market and how much cheaper?

it's not about are hybrids worth the effort it's about are hybrids the best way to invest in resources for the future?

[Hudson]

barcode:

No harmful emissions from the car. But how do you get the hydrogen in the first place? Until there are solar-powered electrolysis stations making it, hydrogen will still have harmful emissions.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

Originally posted by laserwizard@Aug 22 2004, 06:14 PM
The author seems to be fabricating this scenario. Everything I have seen coming out of DCX and other Eurocentric Automotive Producers is placing all eggs into the diesel, low-sulfur diesel approach at the expense of innovation into hybrids. In fact, DCX's fuhrer even noted that he was AGAINST, not a proponent of hybrid vehicles so this author is really stretching the supposed announcement by the Fuhrer. There is nothing on the radar screen to even suggest that the vehicles in the article are even headed toward hybridization given the lengthy lead time that it takes to get these vehicles to market - and the author even notes that DCX hasn't even decided if it is going to license existing technology (only that it was more likely) or if it was going to innovate. It would seem that to have a car to market in 2006 as a hybrid you'd have had to have one in the works for several years and the article gives no hint that DCX has even had one in the works for days. This article is hogwash. Heck, if there was a hybrid in the works, do you think DCX would be less vocal in getting attention than Ford has been with the Escape Hybrid? How many years out did we know such a product was coming? Is DCX really going to keep such a product already in the works a secret so that they can surprise people going into the showroom? That is how absolutely stupid the author is with this article. Another uninformed journalist reporting on a market they have no investment into learning.

BTW...proof that the author is auto-challenged is that he doesn't even report that low sulfur fuel will be required to be sold in the US starting in 2006 and that heavy duty diesels will have to reduce emissions as well. The fact that US automakers now typically build cars that meet the most stringent requirements rather than having two separate lines like they used to makes the author's last paragraph a laughing stock of being uninformed!

Lazerwizard, I hate to say it, but you are an uncultured idiot.

In Europe, diesels have between 40 to 60 percent marketshare (depends on the country of course, you know, Europe actually is a continent, not a country in itself).

The diesel motor is a much more efficient design than the gasoline engine, due to its much higher compression (usually around 17 to 25:1), lack of a throttle restriction, higher BTU content of diesel fuel, and it's extreme lean combustion during light load.

Modern diesels don't smell, they aren't slow (in fact, many are quite fast, such as the Mercedes E 320 CDI which blows the doors off a gas E 320, with a gas motor of the same displacement, but gets 150% fuel efficiency while doing it). Diesels are paragons of durability, and relatively cheap to manufacture.

Hybrids suck. The "hybrid" vehicles on the market today are junk. Priuses are rare to get high-milage with their battery packs that retail well into the four figures, and when they are gone, the car is inoperable. The Insight and Civic Hybrid aren't hybrids at all, they merely have the ability to turn on their starter motor to give some extra pep to their efficient but unbelieveably gutless small fours (approx 65hp for Insight, a paltry 85 for Civic) They are expensive to produce, and their makers lose big sums on every one produced! And for what? A few MPG caused mostly by their detuned motors, the hybrid "synergy drive" accounts in itself, maybe an milage bonus of about 1 to 2.5 MPG. Whoop de friggin do!!


You know about the NSU Ro 80? A wonderful road sedan produced in the late 60's and early 70's. Powered by a very innovative Wankel motor (Wankel himself was an NSU engineer) it was fast and comfortable. Stylish too, looked a lot like the Audi 100/200 that would come out 10 years after the Ro80's demise. The Ro80's motor would usually wear out to zero compression within 30,000miles. Warranty claims ran NSU out of business to be bought by Volkswagen in 1974.


Why the hell am I bringing out an example of a half-baked German supercar from 1967? Because, and I am betting you this, that the Prius will be a perfect reincarnation of it's reliability. Five years from now, the 1-st gen Prius will all be in the scrapyards. Just like the Ro80. Toyota won't be seriously hurt, but Hybrids will.

So to recap:

Hybrid = Much more costly than diesel
Hybrid = Far less reliable than diesel
Hybrid = Far less performance than diesel
Hybrid = Worse efficiency than diesel

So why bother with a Prius when a cheaper Volkswagen Jetta TDI makes more power, better milage on cheaper fuel, looks better, drives better and is a better car?

Because environmentalists are stupid.

[Hudson]

Smaart:

I was with you on the diesel information...but you're wide of the mark on the hybrid information. Both Toyota's and Honda's designs are actually hybrids, they just take different directions. As for long-term reliability, you're just speculating. There's nothing wrong with the Prius because it's actually a cleaner powertrain than any diesel offered in North America or Europe...even with low-sulfur fuels. The Prius is roomier than ANY other vehicle in its fuel economy range. The Prius is priced about the same as the smaller Jetta TDI (the only diesel that could be considered price-competitive with the Prius). The Prius has the SAME performance as the TDI and is MORE efficient.

Environmentalists aren't stupid...many car-people fail to see when right-wingers are actually not far off from the truth. It happens...not often, but it happens.

[gmwsag]

We can't rush and say that environmentalists are stupid people. Actually, environmentalists are very smart, and if we don't take their advice, we will be in a problem. Global Warming Very important...actually, very little news in 2002 was that the Maldive Islands were going underwater. That's right. The Maldives south of Sri Lanka and India. Very sad. This could happen to cities like Tampa, Miami, New Orelans, New York City/Manhattan, and San Fransisco. These are very important cities, and could be underwater if we don't do the right thing: go inland while we can.

[awalbert88]

Hybrids are another way of improving fuel economy, just like DoD, CVT's, etc. Only the press is touting them as the future, because they don't generally like to think things all the way through. Hybrids are going to be around no matter what fuel is powering your vehicle, because they improve power and efficiency. Electric motors will play a part in powering most vehicles within 15 years, if not sooner. Cleaner-burning diesel is something that should be considered, but it would be a stop-gap measure until a viable alternative fuel is developed. Hydrogen in some form or another will likely be the fuel used to power our cars in a few decades. And electric motors will be used extensively.