Asian Automakers oversell horsepower

[wolverine]

Guess they're not so honest after all:

WASHINGTON -- After years of touting ever higher horsepower numbers to win new customers, Toyota Motor Corp., Honda Motor Co. and possibly other automakers are now backtracking on some of those claims.

Strict new tests developed by the industry's top engineering group are prompting the carmakers to roll back horsepower estimates on several key vehicles, including the Toyota Camry, America's best-selling car, and Honda's luxurious Acura RL.

For the 2006 model year, Toyota says its Camry equipped with a 3-liter V-6 engine generates 190 horsepower. In 2005, Toyota said the same car with the same engine had 210 horsepower.

The revised ratings comply with new Society of Automotive Engineers standards designed to eliminate subjective interpretation in establishing horsepower claims.

While Toyota and Honda are retesting their entire vehicle lineups, other automakers generally are retesting only cars and trucks with updated powertrains.

Over time, most automakers are expected to comply with the new guidelines, and horsepower ratings for other vehicles could be revised.

Detroit's automakers say they have been conservative in calculating horsepower and don't expect to have to reduce horsepower ratings on many vehicles. In fact, after retesting, the Big Three have revised horsepower ratings upward on several vehicles.




http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosins...A01-283759.htm

[Buick61]

ZING!

Of course this is coming from Detroit News. Hopefully more, um, balanced publications will pick up the story.

[awalbert88]

A 3.0L V6 making only 190hp? And yet people still managed to gripe about the 3.0L V6 from Ford only making 210hp in the Five Hundred or 221hp in the Fusion.

But then, it's Toyota we're talking about. It's ok for them to have pathetic powertrains.

[plane]

I feel so cheated.

[msupete]

did anybody notice how it says that the XLR(should say v-series) is now 469? I thought that was just the STS-v that had 469hp and the XLR-v was only a little bit higher then the original 440. Maybe just a case of not having all the facts straight?

[jknudson98]

On the other hand, I read an article with the new power rating for the 4.6L Northstar in the DTS. The performance version is down to 292HP from 300HP. It's not nearly as drastic as the Toyota V6 though.

[GraphixJunkie]

Seems like I read an article on here a while back that said the reason the XLR-V horse power numbers are lower than the STS-V's is because of more restricted intake and exhaust due to the smaller engine compartment. The STS-V engineers were able to increase the air intake and add a few horsepower.

[DMC]

Originally Posted by jknudson98

On the other hand, I read an article with the new power rating for the 4.6L Northstar in the DTS. The performance version is down to 292HP from 300HP. It's not nearly as drastic as the Toyota V6 though.

The DTS was actually rated at 290 for 2005. It went up to 292 for 2006.

[CADILLACSIXTEEN]

This is music to my ears. 20 hp is alot to lie about. I always wondered why my moms old Accord which was "200 hp" didnt feel like my Grand Prix which is also 200 hp. And not to mention that my Grand Prix is much bigger and heavier. Now I know why!

[balthazar]

Originally Posted by Buick61

ZING! Of course this is coming from Detroit News. Hopefully more, um, balanced publications will pick up the story.

Of course you mean balanced toward neutral rather than balanced towards asian automakers, right? The DN's automotive editorial slant is notorious.
This article could've been much more damming (and rightfully so to an extent), and would've been if it was the domestics that had "interpreted" to the extent that was done here.

[Intimidatorz34]

but how many people buy a camry based on hp?

[Whirling_Dervish]

Originally Posted by awalbert88

A 3.0L V6 making only 190hp? And yet people still managed to gripe about the 3.0L V6 from Ford only making 210hp in the Five Hundred or 221hp in the Fusion.

But then, it's Toyota we're talking about. It's ok for them to have pathetic powertrains.

Its not just HP, though thats what people key in on due to marketing. Its also gearing. I suspect its Ford's gearing that makes it lethargic feeling. The flip side of that is something like the S2000 which has 240 HP/ 163 or so in TQ, such move like stink! Its gearing acts as a multiplier, improving performance.

I don't know for sure, but it is likely Toyota uses more aggressive gearing which gives them better performance than the Ford equivalent.

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by Intimidatorz34

but how many people buy a camry based on hp?

Doesn't matter. Fact of the matter is Toyota lied, purposely misled the sheep err consumers that have been foolish enough to buy their vehicles.

[GMlvrsince72]

Hey....how many people decide to buy or not buy any car based on 10 or 20 hp up or down? You like a car for it's total sum of styling, size, value, quality, performance and price. Having said that.... I think GM has always been conservative on HP ratings and generally rounded them down. BUT...these days it's silly with hp ratings like 303, 192, 177 and so on. It should always be rounded down to the next 5.......303 should be called 300 and 177 should be 175 and so on. What's next ? A hp spec. like
376.38 hp ? Come on marketing guys......grow up. It's ok if the car actually has 3.5 more hp than claimed.....as Stossel says.......give me a break. We don't see Briggs and Stratton labeling lawn mower motors 5.22 hp. And on another note....it is rumored that Ford and DCX may have to revise some engines downward as well. Oh crap....I guess I don't want a new Mustang GT after all if it is only 294 SAE hp....way too low . This is a stupid as gasoline always being $ xxx.9 ...get rid of this stupid .09 cents thing. It is way too stupid to continue. Comments?

[Whirling_Dervish]

Originally Posted by jknudson98

On the other hand, I read an article with the new power rating for the 4.6L Northstar in the DTS. The performance version is down to 292HP from 300HP. It's not nearly as drastic as the Toyota V6 though.

The article paints this as an Asian issue, when its really an industry one. Everyone will lose or gain HP rating from car to car truck to truck using this NEW and different way of rating power. Such fluctuations will happen whenever a new test procedure replaces the old.