'09 911: up to 30% more power, 13% better mileage

[HoosierRon]

A 2008 Porsche Carrera 2 Coupe gets 18/24 (auto.) and has 325 hp.
A 2008 Saturn Vue FWD gets (at best) 16/24 (auto) and has 257 hp.

If that were not bad enough, Porsche is adding direct injection and a dual clutch transmission for 2009. The result?

Output of the 3.6 and 3.8L engines is now up 20 and 30 percent respectively. In combination with the the new 7 speed dual clutch gearbox, the fuel consumption of these updated drivetrains is reduced by 13 percent.

That would be 390 hp and 20/27 mpg. (The Corvette gets 16/16.) Imagine if Porsche decided to keep the power the same. Mileage would have been even higher.

source

[Zbad1]

Corvette gets 16/26.

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by Zbad1

Corvette gets 16/26.

And with 46 more HP and no fancy trasmission or direct injection.

[ZvetteGuy]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

And with 46 more HP and no fancy trasmission or direct injection.

Well, let's get the fancy transmission mated to the Vette and give it direct injection and have it give Porsche a run for it's Horsepower and MPG's...

Yeah Baby... gotta love competition!!!

[BigAls87Z28]

You compared a 2 ton SUV to a mid engine sports car cause they have 6cyl engines?

Porshce is doing a heck of a job keeping performance and gas milage up. We will see what will happen come DI for the Gen V engines.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by ZvetteGuy

Well, let's get the fancy transmission mated to the Vette and give it direct injection and have it give Porsche a run for it's Horsepower and MPG's...

Yeah Baby... gotta love competition!!!

Precisely. Competition, and rising oil/gasoline prices, will by themselves motivate Detroit to make more powerful, more fuel efficient cars. They will make CAFE completely superfluous.

[CmicasatheGreat]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

A 2008 Porsche Carrera 2 Coupe gets 18/24 (auto.) and has 325 hp.
A 2008 Saturn Vue FWD gets (at best) 16/24 (auto) and has 257 hp.

If that were not bad enough, Porsche is adding direct injection and a dual clutch transmission for 2009. The result?



That would be 390 hp and 20/27 mpg. (The Corvette gets 16/16.) Imagine if Porsche decided to keep the power the same. Mileage would have been even higher.

source

Is it just me.. or is this guy comparing a 3000lb Porsche Sports car... with a 4300lb Vue SUV...???

Not to mention the fact that the Porsche uses more expensive and exotic materials to keep the weight down.. .hence the $80K price

As for the Vette's 16/26... from 430HP... 40 more than Porsche... well I think I just made my point... "Imagine if Chevy decides to go ahead and direct inject the LS3... milage would about 20/29.. power would be 470HP+

[silvergoat2k6]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

And with 46 more HP and no fancy trasmission or direct injection.

I would imagine that the very tall 6th gear (0.50 I believe) has a lot to do with that.

My GTO turns 2000 rpm's at 80 mph in 6th and gets 25 mpg...I've never driven one, but I would think a Corvette would be turning probably around 1700 rpm and get even better mileage (as it's also more aerodynamic).

[ctaylorzl1]

Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat

Is it just me.. or is this guy comparing a 3000lb Porsche Sports car... with a 4300lb Vue SUV...???

Just to be more precise, a Carrera 911 2 (2WD/3.6 6cyl/AT)weighs in at 3200 lbs, and a Vue (2WD/3.6 6cyl/AT) weighs 3800 lbs. Approx 600 lbs difference (give or take a few), not the 1300 you made it out to be. But even still, all the difference is in the details. 80k Sports car vs. 25k SUV. But That being said, the Vue gets dismal fuel mileage for what it is, and seems even worse when compaired to a engine of same size which is what Ron was trying to do for compairisons sake!

[blkwrxsti]

Originally Posted by HoosierRon

A 2008 Porsche Carrera 2 Coupe gets 18/24 (auto.) and has 325 hp.
A 2008 Saturn Vue FWD gets (at best) 16/24 (auto) and has 257 hp.

If that were not bad enough, Porsche is adding direct injection and a dual clutch transmission for 2009. The result?

That would be 390 hp and 20/27 mpg. (The Corvette gets 16/16.) Imagine if Porsche decided to keep the power the same. Mileage would have been even higher.

source

This is a very sad misuse of data all the while ignoring the fact that during the EPA cycle, the porsche is not using 325 hp, they're going exactly the same speeds - while the saturn is still toting around 4000 lbs. Still surprised?

Also, if you read the article, it clearly says that the porsche gets "up to" 13% better fuel economy on the european schedule. IMHO, if a car that used to have a 5 speed auto gets a 7 speed auto, that could easily explain a 13% HWY fuel economy improvement. You chose to extrapolate that the porsche would get AT LEAST 13% on both EPA schedules, which seems like a stretch. You should probably note too, that you're misquoting the Carrera S hp rating (385, not 390), and you're still extrapolating the fuel economy of the base car (as opposed to the S).

Still - I agree with your point, IMHO the C6 team dropped the ball when they decided that the C6 Vette didn't need AFM (or DoD, or whatever they called it at the time). I heard some rumors that it didn't feel good with the manual trans, which I think is hokey - vette drivers who didn't like it would have just disabled it like they do with the skip shift. The vette could easily lope around on 4 cylinders throughout the CITY and HWY cycles. It's going to be interesting - now that GAS costs more, I'd expect more cars to get re-calibrated for fuel economy rather than driveability, like the Cobalt just did. Throw in SIDI and AFM, get rid of the skip shift, and the vette could see 20/30 with a slight driveability penalty. They could put some sort of "tow" switch to disable AFM, which would make it easy for the aftermarket to permanently disable it for the few people that don't like the feeling.

[97ultra]

Originally Posted by ctaylorzl1

Just to be more precise, a Carrera 911 2 (2WD/3.6 6cyl/AT)weighs in at 3200 lbs, and a Vue (2WD/3.6 6cyl/AT) weighs 3800 lbs. Approx 600 lbs difference (give or take a few), not the 1300 you made it out to be. But even still, all the difference is in the details. 80k Sports car vs. 25k SUV. But That being said, the Vue gets dismal fuel mileage for what it is, and seems even worse when compaired to a engine of same size which is what Ron was trying to do for compairisons sake!

The Vue was called out but if you look at any of the models from other manufactures that sell a car like the Vue there mileage is no better and some worst... Again you are not comparing apples to apples.

You have the Corvette with a V8 and even more HP getting better MPG then any SUV the size of the Vue except for Hibreds.

[Greg Burr]

Originally Posted by ctaylorzl1

Just to be more precise, a Carrera 911 2 (2WD/3.6 6cyl/AT)weighs in at 3200 lbs, and a Vue (2WD/3.6 6cyl/AT) weighs 3800 lbs. Approx 600 lbs difference (give or take a few), not the 1300 you made it out to be. But even still, all the difference is in the details. 80k Sports car vs. 25k SUV. But That being said, the Vue gets dismal fuel mileage for what it is, and seems even worse when compaired to a engine of same size which is what Ron was trying to do for compairisons sake!

Yes the Vue is heavy. Then again I would rather be in the Vue in an accident

[GM-Joe]

Since when does the vette get 16/16?

The miles is 18/28 and 16/24 for the Z06; I don't know about the ZR-1, probably a little worse than 16/24.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by GM-Joe

Since when does the vette get 16/16?

The miles is 18/28 and 16/24 for the Z06; I don't know about the ZR-1, probably a little worse than 16/24.

I knew the 16/26mpg was way off.
So the 911 gets 2/1mpg better with an extra gear and direct injection, but 46hp less then a C6.

I will admit though, I wish Corvette got a cool DSG type trans.

[syr74]

Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat

As for the Vette's 16/26... from 430HP... 40 more than Porsche... well I think I just made my point... "Imagine if Chevy decides to go ahead and direct inject the LS3... milage would about 20/29.. power would be 470HP+

DI would make a difference to be sure, but it's pretty unlikely it would be that much. First, as engines get larger the percentage improvement you see from improvements like this typically falls at least a little. The other issue is that 2-valve engines are pretty unlikely to respond as well to direct injection as are 4-valve engines, particularly where VVT is involved, with the possible exception of hybrid designs like the one Lexus employs where PFI and DI are both used. I say this because there are still some low rpm performance issues with DI and the improved port velocity a 4-valve engine will see, not to mention the more finite degree of valvetrain control offered by a DOHC engine, again particularly where VVT is involved, is likewise almost certain to do a better job here. The final issue here is that the light and aerodynamic Vette is already pretty efficient, particularly once you take the taller gearing and broad torque curve into consideration. It is, unfortunately, difficult to imporve upon the things you already do well.

Personally, I would look for something like a ~10% improvement in power and a ~5% improvement in fuel economy (city economy could potentially not improve at all) in the LS V8 with the addition of direct injection giving us something more like 17/27 with a 470-475hp rating. Still very good, but not quite a 500hp 30mpg car.

Just my two cents.