05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes

**Ghrankenstein** · 02-16-2005, 01:17 AM

Ride and Drive

The ’05 Avalon Limited comes with the same keyless access system found in the Toyota Prius, combining auto-unlock and pushbutton start with remote start. People seem willing to pay for it, but I included keyless access as a “loser” in our 2004 GMI Winners and Losers because starting a car with an ignition key isn’t very hard to begin with. Thus, I find the technology nothing more than useless gadgetry.

Also in the “useless gadgetry” department is the active laser cruise control. Normally I wouldn’t call this technology useless, since it has the potential to add a great deal of convenience to commuter driving, but consider: It has three interval settings (interval between the front of the Avalon, and the back of the car it’s following): 0.5 seconds, 1.5 seconds, and 2.5 seconds. Basically, it has two settings of unnerving “tailgate mode” and one that starts to become useful. Since it takes a driver about a half second to react to anything they see, that 0.5 second margin is not only useless, it’s dangerous to the point that it could cost someone their life.

Contrary to popular belief, the new 3.5L Toyota V-6 is not based on the Lexus 3.3, but instead, the new 4.0L V-6 found in the Tacoma (and Tundra). The biggest advantage over the older Lexus plant is a chain-driven valvetrain instead of a timing belt. Unlike the 4.0L truck engine, the 3.5L cleverly adds sound insulation to the timing chain and its mounts. Dual variable valve timing (intake and exhaust) with intelligence (VVTi) gives the 3.5L a broad, even powerband, impressive fuel economy (EPA 22 city, 31 highway), and the ability to discuss the rise of Protestantism in sixteenth century Europe with the transaxle.

The 3.5L VVTi makes a nicely fluid, organic burble that signals its willingness, but Toyota has gone to great lengths to make sure it minds its manners, and thus the Avalon doesn’t really have the opportunity to sing from the heart. That might be a good thing, because the 3.5L VVTi might be strong, but it doesn’t sound strong, and it might even make the car seem weak if it got any louder. What the engine really deserves, though, is a sporting application (Celica or Supra) that can connect it directly to a deserving enthusiast.

The 3600 lb curb weight is not unreasonable, and with 280 hp (at 6200 rpm) and 260 lb-ft (at 4700 rpm), fed through an electronic 5-speed automatic transaxle, the Avalon has the punch that one would expect.

Or does it?

The intertia of nearly two tons of metal, combined with the 3.5L VVTi’s reduced (vs. the 4.0L) low-end torque means that the Avalon is no screamer from a standing start, and the extra ratio in the transaxle probably does more to help the gas mileage than it does the performance. The Avalon, in full-automatic mode, is far from slow, but it feels less responsive than GM’s supercharged W-bodies. Actual 0-60 numbers should be about the same, in the mid sixes.

Get out on the road, and hanker for some power, and the Avalon can certainly flex its muscles. Shifts are up to the same smooth standard set long ago by the 4T60E, but if you’re driving the Avalon and you want to add some juice, you’ll have to wait patiently just as you would with any slushbox. Versus a 3.8L W-body, Avalon’s on-paper advantage is much stronger than its real-world advantage, and a supercharged W-body would probably have a slight edge in passing power.

Slide the shift lever into sequential mode, which is on the driver’s side of the gate instead of the passenger’s side, and you’ve got a whole new demon on your hands. If you’re looking for perfection in the Avalon, this is where you’ll find it. The electronic-with-intelligence transaxle couples with the engine’s electronic throttle to make manual upshifts so smooth that you’ll almost wonder why you wanted a manual clutch in the first place. Engine speed is so frighteningly well matched with the slap-shift that I was tempted to slap it again, just to see what it would do. The second upshift is just as smooth as the first. Scary.

The manumatic mode is where the 3.5L VVTi really shines. Slap it up a notch before taking a corner and you’ll hear the engine rev, but it’s literally so smooth that the car’s cornering attitude is not upset in the slightest. I’m more seasoned than veteran when it comes to manumatics, but I’ve never experienced anything like it. Punch it on the way out, and the Avalon becomes a dowdy, geriatric missile in its upper rev range.

While talking about engines, I need to bring the Avalon’s plant into context with its GM competition. I’ve already gone on the record as saying that the 3800 Gen III is the wrong engine for the Lucerne CX, and I certainly won’t take that back now. In considering the 3.5 VVTi, though, its higher torque peak will make its horsepower advantage over the CX seem less dominating in real-world driving. The Lucerne’s 4.6L Northstar, with 300 lb-ft at 4000 rpm, should bring a moderate performance advantage and a more premium power-language. The LS4 in the ’06 W-bodies will eat the Avalon’s lunch.

Unfortunately, perfect manumatic upshifts, a willing (if stifled) engine, and a killer stereo are the closest the Avalon Limited gets to being fun to drive. A smooth ride doesn’t necessarily mean bad handling, but the Limited has enough body roll to make quick cornering awkward. The tires don’t squeal, thanks largely to the Avalon’s standard stability control, but the bias here is definitely toward floaty, and away from sporty. The steering is supposed to have variable assist, but I couldn’t feel any differences; it’s all low-effort old-person slow. I found it far too light at all speeds to deliver any appreciable kind of feedback. I’m impressed with the rest of the car enough that I’d like to give an Avalon Touring a try, to see what kind of handling the Avalon can optimally offer, and to see if they did anything about that steering.

Summary

The 2005 Avalon Limited is a very good car, and it will be a strong player in full-size sedan crowd, with its obvious power, safety, and pedigree. Don’t even remotely kid yourself, though, into thinking that the Avalon is either perfect or invincible. It isn’t. The Avalon’s styling is as uninspiring as its handling. Its ergonomics suffer in favor of interior styling. Its interior fit, while very good, leaves enough slack in detail for another automaker to take the throne. Its powertrain is brilliant, but it’s not allowed to speak its mind. As it is, the 2005 Avalon Limited is, true to its brand, so preoccupied with being good that it’s afraid to be great.

Sidebar 1

Modern wood trim and faux wood trim are almost indistinguishable. That’s because the real stuff is now laminated, instead of varnished, for long-term durability. Most faux wood is computer-scanned from actual wood, and then it’s laminated too. I’ve seen both side-by-side (in Southern Coach conversion vans, for example), and they look exactly alike. Get the pixel?

Sidebar 2

The looming 2006 Buick Lucerne will bring some immediate advantages to the table. While the Lucerne’s styling is not of the same caliber as classic Buick, it carries a much stronger outward statement of power and prestige. In the base range, the Lucerne’s standard leather might lure in customers that would have otherwise been turned off by the 3.8. Buick isn’t going to be outclassed by the Avalon’s interior, and might even score a small advantage in interior quality.

In two ’05 Avalons, one topping $36,000, the other over $38,000, Toyota has proven that they can run a price tag well into the Lucerne CXL’s anticipated territory, with a V-6 that will not out compete the Northstar. The Lucerne will probably carry a slightly better audio system, though I doubt I’ll be able to tell much of a difference. The biggest trump card will be the Lucerne’s magnetic ride control, which will give it much more poise than the floundering Avalon can muster with no penalty in ride quality.

Don’t count Buick out just yet.

Regards,

Ghrankenstein

**Swahili** · 02-16-2005, 01:55 AM

Again, great review. Pleased to hear that you think the supercharged 3800s and the Northstar in the Lucerne will take the Avalon to task, and show it the door. This has given me new hope for Buick as I was beginning to feel they might be losing their place. This no longer seems to be the case. I'm really looking forward to some comparison tests now. I'm with Buick on this one.

jbartley · 02-16-2005, 02:22 AM

great review, i like car reviews better when i can't stop laughing, tonite i can sleep easy

GM_Guy81 · 02-16-2005, 03:24 AM

Great reviews!

**BigAls87Z28** · 02-16-2005, 04:03 AM

This review only angers me that Buick took more short cuts on the Luceren. 3.8 instead of 3.6 shoots out as a big one.
Great review Ghrank, much enjoyable.

ByTheLake · 02-16-2005, 06:31 AM

Those of us in the frigid north don't compare how much easier a remote start feature is compared to using a steel ignition key, but rather how such a feature allows us to start our cars while indoors on those -22 degree days. During extreme cold, its much more comfortable to enter a vehicle that is already warm.

Not "useless gadgetry" to me.

powervette · 02-16-2005, 07:44 AM

I see that only for me the Avalon is just another new Toyleta

johnd89 · 02-16-2005, 08:36 AM

great review!
congrats, it was a pleasure to read.

as a side note, I always believed that what saved the park ave was having the s/c and optional touring suspension: if they only consider the return of t-type package (less chrome, sporty apearence, different wheels/suspension, throw in a low restriction intake/exhaust, different engine management and they would have in their hands a winner, something both avalon and lexus are missing)

dlr · 02-16-2005, 08:44 AM

[quote=ByTheLake]Those of us in the frigid north don't compare how much easier a remote start feature is compared to using a steel ignition key, but rather how such a feature allows us to start our cars while indoors on those -22 degree days. During extreme cold, its much more comfortable to enter a vehicle that is already warm.

Not "useless gadgetry" to me.[/QUOTE
The Lucerne will have factory installed remote started as an option, just like the Lacrosse does.]

Bravada · 02-16-2005, 08:52 AM

I don't know what kind of keyless entry and ignition Avalon features, but if it's the same Renault offers in Europe, I find it very convenient. You just approach te car, grab the door handle, the door opens, you get in the car, press the button and voila. No need to fiddle with the keys.

johnd89 · 02-16-2005, 09:31 AM

yeah, the bluehairs need the button: you can hurt yourself badly with a sharp key...
plus, dosen't the viper has the same?-hehe-

mrfunji · 02-16-2005, 09:43 AM

If GM could only learn and use the 4200 Vortec I6 in some cars....

johnd89 · 02-16-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrfunji

If GM could only learn and use the 4200 Vortec I6 in some cars....

I love the I6, but that thing is too big to fit in any car...

killerfire · 02-16-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bravada

I don't know what kind of keyless entry and ignition Avalon features, but if it's the same Renault offers in Europe, I find it very convenient. You just approach te car, grab the door handle, the door opens, you get in the car, press the button and voila. No need to fiddle with the keys.

I know the XLR has it... as for other North American GM cars, I don't know...

GM_Fanatic · 02-16-2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerfire

I know the XLR has it... as for other North American GM cars, I don't know...

as does the C6

02-16-2005, 01:17 AM	#1 (permalink)
Ghrankenstein GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Springfield, MO Drives: 2004 Chevy Cavalier LS Sport 5-speed. Posts: 3,164	05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes Ride and Drive The ’05 Avalon Limited comes with the same keyless access system found in the Toyota Prius, combining auto-unlock and pushbutton start with remote start. People seem willing to pay for it, but I included keyless access as a “loser” in our 2004 GMI Winners and Losers because starting a car with an ignition key isn’t very hard to begin with. Thus, I find the technology nothing more than useless gadgetry. Also in the “useless gadgetry” department is the active laser cruise control. Normally I wouldn’t call this technology useless, since it has the potential to add a great deal of convenience to commuter driving, but consider: It has three interval settings (interval between the front of the Avalon, and the back of the car it’s following): 0.5 seconds, 1.5 seconds, and 2.5 seconds. Basically, it has two settings of unnerving “tailgate mode” and one that starts to become useful. Since it takes a driver about a half second to react to anything they see, that 0.5 second margin is not only useless, it’s dangerous to the point that it could cost someone their life. Contrary to popular belief, the new 3.5L Toyota V-6 is not based on the Lexus 3.3, but instead, the new 4.0L V-6 found in the Tacoma (and Tundra). The biggest advantage over the older Lexus plant is a chain-driven valvetrain instead of a timing belt. Unlike the 4.0L truck engine, the 3.5L cleverly adds sound insulation to the timing chain and its mounts. Dual variable valve timing (intake and exhaust) with intelligence (VVTi) gives the 3.5L a broad, even powerband, impressive fuel economy (EPA 22 city, 31 highway), and the ability to discuss the rise of Protestantism in sixteenth century Europe with the transaxle. The 3.5L VVTi makes a nicely fluid, organic burble that signals its willingness, but Toyota has gone to great lengths to make sure it minds its manners, and thus the Avalon doesn’t really have the opportunity to sing from the heart. That might be a good thing, because the 3.5L VVTi might be strong, but it doesn’t sound strong, and it might even make the car seem weak if it got any louder. What the engine really deserves, though, is a sporting application (Celica or Supra) that can connect it directly to a deserving enthusiast. The 3600 lb curb weight is not unreasonable, and with 280 hp (at 6200 rpm) and 260 lb-ft (at 4700 rpm), fed through an electronic 5-speed automatic transaxle, the Avalon has the punch that one would expect. Or does it? The intertia of nearly two tons of metal, combined with the 3.5L VVTi’s reduced (vs. the 4.0L) low-end torque means that the Avalon is no screamer from a standing start, and the extra ratio in the transaxle probably does more to help the gas mileage than it does the performance. The Avalon, in full-automatic mode, is far from slow, but it feels less responsive than GM’s supercharged W-bodies. Actual 0-60 numbers should be about the same, in the mid sixes. Get out on the road, and hanker for some power, and the Avalon can certainly flex its muscles. Shifts are up to the same smooth standard set long ago by the 4T60E, but if you’re driving the Avalon and you want to add some juice, you’ll have to wait patiently just as you would with any slushbox. Versus a 3.8L W-body, Avalon’s on-paper advantage is much stronger than its real-world advantage, and a supercharged W-body would probably have a slight edge in passing power. Slide the shift lever into sequential mode, which is on the driver’s side of the gate instead of the passenger’s side, and you’ve got a whole new demon on your hands. If you’re looking for perfection in the Avalon, this is where you’ll find it. The electronic-with-intelligence transaxle couples with the engine’s electronic throttle to make manual upshifts so smooth that you’ll almost wonder why you wanted a manual clutch in the first place. Engine speed is so frighteningly well matched with the slap-shift that I was tempted to slap it again, just to see what it would do. The second upshift is just as smooth as the first. Scary. The manumatic mode is where the 3.5L VVTi really shines. Slap it up a notch before taking a corner and you’ll hear the engine rev, but it’s literally so smooth that the car’s cornering attitude is not upset in the slightest. I’m more seasoned than veteran when it comes to manumatics, but I’ve never experienced anything like it. Punch it on the way out, and the Avalon becomes a dowdy, geriatric missile in its upper rev range. While talking about engines, I need to bring the Avalon’s plant into context with its GM competition. I’ve already gone on the record as saying that the 3800 Gen III is the wrong engine for the Lucerne CX, and I certainly won’t take that back now. In considering the 3.5 VVTi, though, its higher torque peak will make its horsepower advantage over the CX seem less dominating in real-world driving. The Lucerne’s 4.6L Northstar, with 300 lb-ft at 4000 rpm, should bring a moderate performance advantage and a more premium power-language. The LS4 in the ’06 W-bodies will eat the Avalon’s lunch. Unfortunately, perfect manumatic upshifts, a willing (if stifled) engine, and a killer stereo are the closest the Avalon Limited gets to being fun to drive. A smooth ride doesn’t necessarily mean bad handling, but the Limited has enough body roll to make quick cornering awkward. The tires don’t squeal, thanks largely to the Avalon’s standard stability control, but the bias here is definitely toward floaty, and away from sporty. The steering is supposed to have variable assist, but I couldn’t feel any differences; it’s all low-effort old-person slow. I found it far too light at all speeds to deliver any appreciable kind of feedback. I’m impressed with the rest of the car enough that I’d like to give an Avalon Touring a try, to see what kind of handling the Avalon can optimally offer, and to see if they did anything about that steering. Summary The 2005 Avalon Limited is a very good car, and it will be a strong player in full-size sedan crowd, with its obvious power, safety, and pedigree. Don’t even remotely kid yourself, though, into thinking that the Avalon is either perfect or invincible. It isn’t. The Avalon’s styling is as uninspiring as its handling. Its ergonomics suffer in favor of interior styling. Its interior fit, while very good, leaves enough slack in detail for another automaker to take the throne. Its powertrain is brilliant, but it’s not allowed to speak its mind. As it is, the 2005 Avalon Limited is, true to its brand, so preoccupied with being good that it’s afraid to be great. Sidebar 1 Modern wood trim and faux wood trim are almost indistinguishable. That’s because the real stuff is now laminated, instead of varnished, for long-term durability. Most faux wood is computer-scanned from actual wood, and then it’s laminated too. I’ve seen both side-by-side (in Southern Coach conversion vans, for example), and they look exactly alike. Get the pixel? Sidebar 2 The looming 2006 Buick Lucerne will bring some immediate advantages to the table. While the Lucerne’s styling is not of the same caliber as classic Buick, it carries a much stronger outward statement of power and prestige. In the base range, the Lucerne’s standard leather might lure in customers that would have otherwise been turned off by the 3.8. Buick isn’t going to be outclassed by the Avalon’s interior, and might even score a small advantage in interior quality. In two ’05 Avalons, one topping $36,000, the other over $38,000, Toyota has proven that they can run a price tag well into the Lucerne CXL’s anticipated territory, with a V-6 that will not out compete the Northstar. The Lucerne will probably carry a slightly better audio system, though I doubt I’ll be able to tell much of a difference. The biggest trump card will be the Lucerne’s magnetic ride control, which will give it much more poise than the floundering Avalon can muster with no penalty in ride quality. Don’t count Buick out just yet. Regards, Ghrankenstein __________________ NEW RIDE: 2008 Carp Poseidon (for fish-head delivery) Last edited by Ghrankenstein : 02-16-2005 at 02:07 AM.

02-16-2005, 01:55 AM	#2 (permalink)
Swahili GMI Staff Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Drives: 2000 Chev Monte Carlo SS Posts: 5,170	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes Again, great review. Pleased to hear that you think the supercharged 3800s and the Northstar in the Lucerne will take the Avalon to task, and show it the door. This has given me new hope for Buick as I was beginning to feel they might be losing their place. This no longer seems to be the case. I'm really looking forward to some comparison tests now. I'm with Buick on this one. __________________ 2000 Chevy Monte Carlo SS. Black, 3800 Series II V6, 4 speed automatic - 138,900km. The Official GMI 2007-2008 NHL Season

02-16-2005, 02:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
jbartley 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: UF & JAX Posts: 1,909	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes great review, i like car reviews better when i can't stop laughing, tonite i can sleep easy

02-16-2005, 03:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
GM_Guy81 5.3 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 1,267	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes Great reviews! __________________ "Government at its best is a necessary evil, at its worst it is an intolerable one" - Thomas Paine

02-16-2005, 04:03 AM	#5 (permalink)
BigAls87Z28 GMI Mod/Camaro Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 9,506	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes This review only angers me that Buick took more short cuts on the Luceren. 3.8 instead of 3.6 shoots out as a big one. Great review Ghrank, much enjoyable. __________________ Any Inside Info? Questions or Coments? Ideas? Email me at BigAl@GMInsidenews.com 1993 Caprice 9C1 1987 Camaro Z28 1972 Camaro RS

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02-16-2005, 06:31 AM	#6 (permalink)
ByTheLake 6.2 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Traverse City, MI Drives: '04 Corvette, '08 CTS Posts: 2,695	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes Those of us in the frigid north don't compare how much easier a remote start feature is compared to using a steel ignition key, but rather how such a feature allows us to start our cars while indoors on those -22 degree days. During extreme cold, its much more comfortable to enter a vehicle that is already warm. Not "useless gadgetry" to me.

02-16-2005, 07:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
powervette 4.4 Liter Supercharged Northstar Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Heart of Europe Posts: 2,204	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes I see that only for me the Avalon is just another new Toyleta

02-16-2005, 08:36 AM	#8 (permalink)
johnd89 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In front of the PC! Posts: 1,960	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes great review! congrats, it was a pleasure to read. as a side note, I always believed that what saved the park ave was having the s/c and optional touring suspension: if they only consider the return of t-type package (less chrome, sporty apearence, different wheels/suspension, throw in a low restriction intake/exhaust, different engine management and they would have in their hands a winner, something both avalon and lexus are missing)

02-16-2005, 08:44 AM	#9 (permalink)
dlr 2.0 Liter Supercharged ECOTEC Join Date: Sep 2004 Posts: 182	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes [quote=ByTheLake]Those of us in the frigid north don't compare how much easier a remote start feature is compared to using a steel ignition key, but rather how such a feature allows us to start our cars while indoors on those -22 degree days. During extreme cold, its much more comfortable to enter a vehicle that is already warm. Not "useless gadgetry" to me.[/QUOTE The Lucerne will have factory installed remote started as an option, just like the Lacrosse does.]

02-16-2005, 08:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
Bravada 70 MPG Two Mode Saturn Hybrid Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Warsaw, Poland Posts: 10,710	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes I don't know what kind of keyless entry and ignition Avalon features, but if it's the same Renault offers in Europe, I find it very convenient. You just approach te car, grab the door handle, the door opens, you get in the car, press the button and voila. No need to fiddle with the keys.

02-16-2005, 09:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
johnd89 6.0 Liter Vortec V8 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: In front of the PC! Posts: 1,960	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes yeah, the bluehairs need the button: you can hurt yourself badly with a sharp key... plus, dosen't the viper has the same?-hehe-

02-16-2005, 09:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
mrfunji 3.8 Liter Supercharged V6 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Red Sox Nation Drives: '05 GTO Posts: 727	Re: 05 Avalon Part 2: Drive, Summary, and Notes If GM could only learn and use the 4200 Vortec I6 in some cars.... __________________ There is no replacement for displacement - except for the turbo in my basement 2005 GTO

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