GM considers selling Chevrolets in South Korea

[RedVee8]

If Daewoo are to produce a Daewoo-esque look and a Opel-esque on the same platform going forward it may work. But would you then have Chev selling the Daewoo version everywhere except South Korea, and selling the Opel version there? Perhaps there will be a Chev-ish version sold everywhere (except OZ & NZ) as a Chev, and the upmarket design gets sold as the various other brands, Opel, Holden, Daewoo etc. Although that would put Daewoo upmarket in design to Chev in South Korea, maybe suit the nationalistic feelings but seems a tad strange.

[jkrende]

I am IN South Korea right now, Okpo specifically, on Geoji island as the Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering shipyards. I have seen a couple of Chevrolet badged products over here (and one 90's model Escalade that looked like Gulliver among the Lilliputians going down the road...). The Korean's do not buy Japanese, I have seen Kia, Hyundai, and Daewoo en masse, but not a single Toyohondassan, and of American Badged cars only maybe four or five Chevrolet's, the one Cadillac, and not a single Ford or Dodge badged product. I did see one BMW and a Mercedes Benz, but that was it for European cars. Point is, if American product is going to make an inroad here, it would be GM an Chevrolet... they already have the closest thing to an outside presence I've seen.

[DuSpinnst]

New Chevy's will be shared. The next Cobalt and Malibu will have European/Daewoo counterparts. So it makes sense to just badge them all Chevy in every market.

Don't be surprised when Chevy shows up in Australia too. Holden will basically sell Opel cars + the VE/WM (and variants of that).

Holden, Opel, Vauxhaul, Saturn, Buick, Pontiac, GMC will remain local market brands sharing cars.

The biggest sharing will be Opel, Vauxhaul, Saturn, Holden (not including VE/WM line). Where the cars will be identical except badging (example Astra). Buick in China will share with Buick in the US. Pontiac and Holden will share the VE (but nothing else, the rest of the Holden's are Opels). GMC will mostly be what it is today.

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Don't be surprised when Chevy shows up in Australia too. Holden will basically sell Opel cars + the VE/WM (and variants of that).

Holden, Opel, Vauxhaul, Saturn, Buick, Pontiac, GMC will remain local market brands sharing cars.

The biggest sharing will be Opel, Vauxhaul, Saturn, Holden (not including VE/WM line). Where the cars will be identical except badging (example Astra). Buick in China will share with Buick in the US. Pontiac and Holden will share the VE (but nothing else, the rest of the Holden's are Opels). GMC will mostly be what it is today.

Apart from Camaros (and possibly a future Corvette) nothing is ever likely to be badged Chevrolet in Australia. Chevrolet (unlike Cadillac) has a market awareness here, but it's for muscelcars. They would kill the market for the Camaro and the 'Vette if they tried to sell Daewoos. Camaros were mooted to be sold as HSVs, now it looks like they're going to channelize them into GM premium dealers with Cadillac, Saab and Hummer. Also, as the Barina is a respectable seller at present and likely to get better as the upgrades arrive, same with the Epica and the next Viva, they will not waste money trying to reestablish them under another brand. The Colorado name is only changing because Isuzu owns Rodeo - it's still being sold as a Holden.

Holden and the lion/globe badge is the third best known brand in Australia after QANTAS and the national telco with something like 93% recognition. They won't change that for the bowtie on mainstream cars; which is so meaningless Holden used the bowtie taillights off the Chev Lumina M-E cars on 'Lumina Commodores' sold here as an options pack, and people who bought them had no idea that was even another brand's badge. (Lumina as a model were never sold here at all).

I don't think Korean-made Daewoos will be sold as Chevolets, either - more likely you might see selected Chevs imported there. As noted, Koreans are just as nationalistic as the Japanese. Worst insult you can make is to call a Korean Japanese. Tahoes and anything like the land behemoths you guys sell is simply way too large for Korean roads. The Daewoo Statesman only comes with a V6, and will get the turbo four if the CHinese one does because big cars and traffic simply don't mix. Fuel economy is very important.

[rcracedriver]

Originally Posted by jkrende

I am IN South Korea right now, Okpo specifically, on Geoji island as the Daewoo Shipbuilding and Marine Engineering shipyards. I have seen a couple of Chevrolet badged products over here (and one 90's model Escalade that looked like Gulliver among the Lilliputians going down the road...). The Korean's do not buy Japanese, I have seen Kia, Hyundai, and Daewoo en masse, but not a single Toyohondassan, and of American Badged cars only maybe four or five Chevrolet's, the one Cadillac, and not a single Ford or Dodge badged product. I did see one BMW and a Mercedes Benz, but that was it for European cars. Point is, if American product is going to make an inroad here, it would be GM an Chevrolet... they already have the closest thing to an outside presence I've seen.

I too have spent a lot of time in Korea. Actually the Chevrolet brand has been around in Korea for a while now, and in fact because of one particular product branded as a Chevy being imported there. It receives a high profile presence as a 'limousine to the stars'. Believe it or not, an importer has been bringing in 'Starcraft' Chevy vans to use as celebrity travel vans whenever they pull up and make an appearance. You also see the Starcraft vans in various highly popular TV drama shows. Hardly an intended marketing presence, but perhaps the Chevy brand might be recieving unintended recognition.

Another thing I noticed, many GM Daewoo brand owners find ways to convert their GM Daewoo products to their Chevy nameplate. They often have to replace a few badges/nameplates/ grill insert, done. This is easily accomplished because parts are already sourced in Korea for their export versions. For instance, you'd see a Daewoo matiz converted to Chevy spark, or Daewoo Tosca converted to Chevy epica, Daewoo winstorm- Chevy captiva.

Also, many Chevy's are seen in the country because some American Military bring their cars to Korea while they're based there. Seeing a Silverado in Seoul is quite a site, considering 6.50/gallon price tag for gas.

Perhaps people in Korea are yearning to want to have something different, because they're so sick of looking at the same old hyunday/kia/daewoo that is so prevalent. Keep in mind domestic market share in Korea is at least 85%

[rsbaker]

Originally Posted by Ming

What's next, sell Chevies in Australia?

Now That's and Idea!...I have actually suggested in the past that Australia would be a good place to sell Chevrolets. I imagined Chevrolet as entry level brand, selling smaller cars, sport Utility vehicles and trucks and Camaro.

Holden would be moved slightly up market selling mid sized and big "near luxury" and sport sedans, wagons, and of course their range of Utes.

Finally I would send Cadillac to fill out the top end. GM should not leave Mercedes Benz and BMW all to themselves down under. Hummer and Saab can fill in any under served niche markets.

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by rsbaker

Now That's and Idea!...I have actually suggested in the past that Australia would be a good place to sell Chevrolets. I imagined Chevrolet as entry level brand, selling smaller cars, sport Utility vehicles and trucks and Camaro.
.

No thanks. don't think a Camaro, Corvette, Silverado, Tahoe Chev lineup will gel with a Spark, Beat, Aveo, Lacetti lineup, In Australia at least.

One or t'other or not at all thanks.

[YupYupYup]

Don't be surprised when Chevy shows up in Australia too. Holden will basically sell Opel cars + the VE/WM (and variants of that).

For those naysayers, be careful what you don't wish for...It is a global world and I have heard the same arguements in the past. It is not unreasonable to think Chevy will show up in Australia some time in the future. GM has grand plans for it globally, and givent he exchange rate it might be sooner rather than later.

[BBDOS CV8]

Originally Posted by rsbaker

Now That's and Idea!...I have actually suggested in the past that Australia would be a good place to sell Chevrolets. I imagined Chevrolet as entry level brand, selling smaller cars, sport Utility vehicles and trucks and Camaro.

Holden would be moved slightly up market selling mid sized and big "near luxury" and sport sedans, wagons, and of course their range of Utes.

Finally I would send Cadillac to fill out the top end. GM should not leave Mercedes Benz and BMW all to themselves down under. Hummer and Saab can fill in any under served niche markets.

Waste of time. Holden already sells to the same market demographic as Chev, and to establish them as a purveyor of bottom end GMDATs would kill the Camaro and any other high-value vehicles. It's seen to be damaging Holden, even if Joe average doesn't notice.

We already get the Colorado/Canyon as the Rodeo, which name is changing to the Colorado due to Isuzu owning the name, but Holden owns the Thai factory that makes them in RHD. No North American Chevs are made RHD, so forget that.

We already get four Daewoos as Holdens, and Holden owns 45% of the company so there is no need to get anything at 50% higher cost from the US.

Cadillac we'll see, but the bulk of BMW and Merc sales are small fours which are far lower priced than the Cadillac's proposed level. With one model and one engine it isn't going to even be felt by the Euros. It is competing for a luxury vehicle market of 100,000 cars, including Holden/HSV who sell 15-20K cars into that market, plus all the big SUVs and Euros. It isn't going to capture more than a few percent.

Nissan tried to set up Maxima here - bombed. Their top model is sold throug Nissan dealers as the Nissan Maxima. Honda never even tried with Acura - they're all Hondas. Toyota has Lexus, but without the Toyo dealers it would have folded. Our market is small for that segregation, plus we have lots of players here like Renault, Citroen, Alfa, Fiat, Peugeot who never left.

Buyers here are looking for good small cars. Those things aren't synonymous with Chev. And things like Tahoes and Silverados are way too big, with petrol approaching $7.00 a US gal. People are staying away from big SUVs. In that market probably more than half the veficles are diesels, as we have good fuel here and it is almost on a par with petrol.

Sorry, fixing Chevvy's problems by dumping product is not going to work. The biggest selling cars here sell around 4-5,000 a month, with daylight after them. The Thai-made Hilux (Tacoma) only sells so well because of the Australia-Thailand free trade agreement means it is priced very low. Plus it's always been a big seller here in the commercial segment.

[t-rex]

Daewoos used to be called Saehins in Korea, so maybe Koreans wouldn't be so averse to yet another brand name change. The trick would be convincing Koreans that "Chevrolet" is a Korean, rather than American, brand.

[RedVee8]

Originally Posted by YupYupYup

For those naysayers, be careful what you don't wish for...It is a global world and I have heard the same arguements in the past. It is not unreasonable to think Chevy will show up in Australia some time in the future. GM has grand plans for it globally, and givent he exchange rate it might be sooner rather than later.

Gee mate, agree that it is possible - disagree that it is necessary or desirable.

Anyway YupYupYup, have a heart.
How would you like it if people were discussing replacing your home grown Canadian car brand with their US equivilent?

Woops. :-)

[Frankster177]

Fix up the Epica instead.
Get rid of the Dame Ednna front and work on the motors.

[t-rex]

Originally Posted by RedVee8

Gee mate, agree that it is possible - disagree that it is necessary or desirable.

Anyway YupYupYup, have a heart.
How would you like it if people were discussing replacing your home grown Canadian car brand with their US equivilent?

Woops. :-)

Here's food for thought (sorta)...

"Holden" as always meant a rugged Aussie car built for rugged Aussie conditions (yeah those rugged suburban streets of Brisbane, I reckon...).

"Holden" meant Kingswood, Premier, Special, Statesman, Sandman, Torana and so on, NOT Gemini, Astra, Camira, or worse yet, the "Toyolden" Nova and Apollo.

But just like GM doesn't have a 50% share in America anymore, the big Aussie tank doesn't have 50% of the Oz market anymore. And it's shrinking. The Mitsu 380, the last descendant of sorts of Chrysler's big Aussies, is consigned to the dustbin. Ford's rethinking the Falcon into a global product, meaning it may well be designed and built G-d knows where on Earth, threatening Broadmeadow's existence and the entire notion of an Aussie-designed Ford.

In less than a decade there could be the reality that the big Holden will be the only fair dinkum Aussie car on Earth, and dwindling supplies of "black smack" might threaten its existence.

Is it really such a stretch to think that Aveos, Astras, or any "not-Australian" car could feasibly sold under the Chevrolet banner in Oz? I know, I know, you think "Chevrolet" means Camaros and Corvettes and whatnot, but that's also what "Chevrolet" means to many Russians and South Africans, and they're taking to the Daewoovolets in droves.

So therein is the possibility that GM may very well introduce Chevrolet into Australia and New Zealand (Kiwis probably couldn't care less...) to sell the smaller models, and Holden soldiering on as the "Torana & Commodore" brand, with the assumption that gradually the large car market in Oz will decline to the point where it, and the Holden name itself, will be rendered unnecessary.

The Rodeo is becoming the Colorado. Aveos are replacing Opels as Barinas. The Cobalt replacement is more than likely coming to Oz. "CSV" brand has been launched in the Middle East. The "big six" Aussie family sedan lost its market dominance ages ago, and has been on a constant decline.

Ya never know....

[BBDOS CV8]

That's like saying you could replace the Levis brand with FCUK in America and overseas - most Levis are no longer made in the US, why keep the name. Because repeat customers are brand aware. I always go looking for them, because I know they are a consistent product and a design classic that aren't cheap or the most trendy but extremely good value for money. That's the value of consistent branding.

For that matter, why not replace Chevrolet in the Middle-East with an Arabian name? After all, the cars aren't made in the US for years. Saudis know full well their 'Chevvy' Lumina comes from Oz. Simple, because people don't like fundamental change, it makes them concerned about who is running their company, providing warranty and after-sales.

Believe me, it would damage GM's interests in Australia enormously if they seek to supplant Holden with Chev. For starters, I would not automatically be inclined to pick Chev to buy. There is no recent track record here, and nothing they sell that I could afford which would tempt me (RWD passenger or commercial vehicle other than a stupidly large truck).

Ford will still sell Ford Falcons, even if ther're rebadged FWD Tauruses made in the US They sold here nonstop for 48 years - Falcon means 'large Ford sedan' in Oz. Probably half the reason the Falcon outsold the Taurus by 40:1

Replace Holden even on GMDATs with Chev and you'll hurt them, by reducing total sales volume. I can just see some GM beancounter saying 'gee, Holden sales have dropped by 30% this year. Guess no one really cares about the brand.' Kill it, and hand the market away. It isn't a given that you can change the logo to a bowtie and translate the sales even with the same car. Nissan took years to win back lost Datsun sales.

Holden sold 4 times as many Barinas in the first year even though they were the same car as the Daewoo Kalos they replaced. Putting the Lion and Globe on automatically gave the car credibility. There are many reasons Toyo is winning the sales race, superior product@cost due to industrial muscle is mostly it: branding Holdens as Chev won't arrest that at all.

This means nothing to the average Aussie, and let's face it, isn't a patch on thisas far as dynanicism goes.

Chev has no presence here in Australasia than as a legacy Yank-Tank maker and would take years to counter this negative perception as anything else - why put yourself even further behind Toyota and the other competitors? The American cars sold here are sold on a big brash image like the Jeeps, 300C and soon the Cadillac. It would take a seismic shift to sell little'uns.

People aren't stupid - they'll know and be told with every roadtest these 'Chevs' are coming from Asia, not America. And wonder why they should choose one over a Toycar.

The other thing is, I'm sorry to say, American branding isn't necessarily a plus here, with Dud-ya screwing everthing up including now the US economy. It isn't US-made cars which are selling well for GM, but overseas models including Holdens. In fact US-made models are still ceding ground in their own markets. Why taint success with failure?

[The Law]

I'm sure American branding would be better then Daewoo brand in Aussie.

I'm not sure how GM's Lineup is over in SK but if Daewoo is under NA's Chevy then it should be ok for Chevy to come in, but why would bring in another brand then they can just extend or make a sub branding?If they sell Daewoo,Opel,Buick,Saab and Caddy.what else do they need the whole lineup? At times I think the people over at GM has mental problems.

Unless Holden-Daewoo makes some smaller well equipped Mazda-Nissan fighters they will bump heads with another GM brand, either Chevy or Opel.

Gm's full is almost compete other than what to do with GMC and Hummer.