Zeta: The Best Thing Going

[nadepalma]

Originally Posted by Dynamo

This site will always be about the next big platform and how it's going to save the world by making pickup trucks and BMW fighters off of it. The world is afterall begging for V8 power with rear wheel drive and manual transmissions.

Amen Dynamo, Amen. I wish it would get here already!! God knows there are many of us who would love to see this happen and soon.

[Ultra Magnus]

If Zeta is done correctly most, if not all of those things could come to a dealership near you. Personally, I am waiting for a fitting Bonneville replacement. So a large 400hp sedan to pickup the kids in would be fitting family transportation. The Misses has already bought off on getting an Enclave so GM dont let me down!

[New_Mexico_Sunset_on_Rt66]

Well said BigAl. I haven't been this excited about GM since when I saw my first pubic hair when I was 13.

... and lets not forget about Kappa.

[KingElvis]

Is this really 'news?'

Why didn't this go under the GMI editorial section - it's pure speculation of the "if I ruled the world" variety. At least Nadepalma supplied some actual news.

It's already been reported that Zeta will replace the Deville, which is priced above the STS. Why would they price a larger vehicle less than a smaller one?

Besides, it would be fratricide for Cadillac to go even more downmarket than it already has with the CTS. The CTS sells well, but only by cheapening the Cadillac marque and poaching Buick sales. Cadillac needs to eliminate V6 engines and compete more on Mercedes' level - there's tons of profit to be gained in that arena even if it means Cadillac market share dips - profit matters.

I would also like to see a shred of evidence that Holdens will be imported to the U.S. Since Canada will be building similar products, why would we import nearly the same thing? It doesn't add up at all. The reason the Monaro was imported is because North America didn't have anything like it at the time - now we'll have both a coupe and a sedan that fits the bill.

[evolutionauto79]

What a great write up. I think you hit the nail right on the head with this one. At JCI, we're still waiting for more information regarding the door contract for a four door that is still unnamed. We got the camaro and a four door that is nameless. No one at work believes me when i tell them it will be the impala. Great work on the article.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by KingElvis

Is this really 'news?'

Why didn't this go under the GMI editorial section - it's pure speculation of the "if I ruled the world" variety. At least Nadepalma supplied some actual news.

It's already been reported that Zeta will replace the Deville, which is priced above the STS. Why would they price a larger vehicle less than a smaller one?

Besides, it would be fratricide for Cadillac to go even more downmarket than it already has with the CTS. The CTS sells well, but only by cheapening the Cadillac marque and poaching Buick sales. Cadillac needs to eliminate V6 engines and compete more on Mercedes' level - there's tons of profit to be gained in that arena even if it means Cadillac market share dips - profit matters.

Well, first off it IS in the editorial section.
There have been rumors, yes, of a larger Zeta going to replace the Deville, but with my idea, along with the idea that the CTS will be moving up in market as well, that a "Zeta-Lux" could be used to make a smaller, Commadore Sized BLS, but still price point would start at the same low 30k. I guess I should have explained that better. And if Caddy is going to compete with MB, then they are deffinatly going ot need a V6 as most of there line up uses the new 3.5 V6. Not having the V6, and going to V8 only, would be death, especialy in Europe. But dont forget that Caddy isnt leaving the high performance range either. This Zeta-Lux is could also be equiped to use a 500hp LS7 motor, if indeed the Zeta cars are certified.

I would also like to see a shred of evidence that Holdens will be imported to the U.S. Since Canada will be building similar products, why would we import nearly the same thing? It doesn't add up at all. The reason the Monaro was imported is because North America didn't have anything like it at the time - now we'll have both a coupe and a sedan that fits the bill.

Ok...the 2004-2006 Pontiac GTO, there is a pretty big shred of evidence right there. I belive Oshawa's capacity when combining the 2 plants now is in the 400-500k unit range. Im guessing, seeing that Oshawa ! was at 300k and Oshawa 2 was just under that. There are a handful of ways of cutting this up. I also left a lot of ideas out, because it would get too long winded, but what if Oshawa was set to build 2dr Zeta coupes for the world? What if they were set to build a few thousand Monaros for Holden and Opel? Point is, if capacity is reached, and GM would like to keep some ties to Holden, and import a car that is already engineerd, certified, and ready to hit the road, the Caprice or the Statesman would be obvious choices for a large Buick, as they are already going to be branded and send to China as Buicks. Its just an ideas off what information is out there regarding Zeta.

[8>4]

I have thought about several cars that could also be built off of it. A GTO coupe, yes, but...what about a Caddy? What if from Zeta we can upgrade it and get a Zeta-Lux and that could create a smaller entry level Caddy, BLS, using RWD, to really fight the 3/G35/C/A4 type cars. Price it a shade lower then the current CTS, and allow the CTS grow to more of a proper 5/3/A6 size, and with the 2nd gen STS to push up to the 7/S/A8 size. Zeta would offer a great chassis, still allowing the use of the high feature V6 engines, 5 and 6 speed autos, as well as having the ability to house the Gen IV V8 engine for V-Series use. Zeta is not old-tech, it will be a brand new platform. It could give us a sedan, coupe and convertible, just what is needed to go against the big players. Possible addition of aluminum parts to enhance its sophistication, and will also be spread to a Buick sedan to help lessen the cost. Zeta would give us a good low-cost RWD chassis to fight the 3 series.

I hope the first BLS we get in NA is RWD. I think Cadillac's lineup needs to resemble the BMW and Benz lineups to start gaining the respect they deserve. I don't think it will be beneficial to Caddy if the press tells everyone the BLS is based on the Malibu.

[rsbaker]

This all sounds very exciting! I hope GM won't take for ever to get all of these models to the showroom. They need to do what ever is possible, without sacrificing quality or design, to get them out quickly. GM needs to steel some thunder from Toyota and I think the Lambdas will be a good start but these Zeta Coupes/sedans/crossovers will really excite the public and bring back some of GMs lost market share.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

This also asks the question, would be wise to import Buick-ized Holden Caprice's to the US? This could give us a low production, high quality luxury sedan with many electrical additions and offer a great luxury sedan for the money. Ship 50,000 of them a year to the US, half with V8, half with the 3.6 V6, and that would make for a very nice ride.
Holden and GM North America team together to make better rear wheel drive sports sedans and coupes, for consumption in both markets.


Pontiac could develop a really killer looking Grand Prix replacement. Aggressive fenders, sculpted body lines, wheels pushed to the corners, sporty interior, and a suspension set up that is ready to take any turn. BMW should still be a target as far as offering a solid performing ride along with GM's usual fashion of adding a touch of horsepower. The cars will have available V6 and V8 power, of course, along with offering a manual transmission for both engines.

read the ocotober issue of motor trend thats the cover story. and the caprice is mentioned.

[Mikkoo]

A great read, with really we'll thought out ideas. I'm in favor of moving
the slow selling BLS to RWD in the next gen. It can't compete
successfully here in Europe with it.

[KingElvis]

BigAl

I'm not trying to scold, but this was in the "News Ticker."

Also, my point was that the Monaro was only imported because we didn't have something like it here, and Lutz wanted to have his GTO right away instead of developing a North American made one.

Why would we import something from Australia that is practically identical to cars made in Canada? The GMI Pontiac dream lineup made a similar prognostication, so is that the only evidence that it's "out there"? In that case it woud just be reporting GMI's own echo chamber as pseudo/sorta speculation.

[KingElvis]

[quote=Dynamo]This site will always be about the next big platform and how it's going to save the world by making pickup trucks and BMW fighters off of it. The world is afterall begging for V8 power with rear wheel drive and manual transmissions.

]

Dynamo, you are kidding...right? If you are really talking about "The world" V8 cars are a tiny minority. In Europe you practically have to be an industrialist to afford one - also they only come in really expensive cars.

I buy the V8 thing more if you are refering to the US, but in that case the manual transmission aspect of your statement - that's got to be sarcasm right?

The manual transmission only goes into something like 6% of new vehicles. The take rate for manuals has been declining for decades, and more precipitously as of late.

[DuSpinnst]

[quote=KingElvis]

Originally Posted by Dynamo

This site will always be about the next big platform and how it's going to save the world by making pickup trucks and BMW fighters off of it. The world is afterall begging for V8 power with rear wheel drive and manual transmissions.

]

Dynamo, you are kidding...right? If you are really talking about "The world" V8 cars are a tiny minority. In Europe you practically have to be an industrialist to afford one - also they only come in really expensive cars.

I buy the V8 thing more if you are refering to the US, but in that case the manual transmission aspect of your statement - that's got to be sarcasm right?

The manual transmission only goes into something like 6% of new vehicles. The take rate for manuals has been declining for decades, and more precipitously as of late.

There are PLENTY of V8's running around Europe (at least in Germany). Although they are all SMALL DOHC V8's. At least comparatively to what people make it sound like (as in it is not uncommon to see a V8 car).

[ponchoman49]

I just hope our Zeta sedans look a little less plain and 90's compared to the new lineup of Holdens which all look too much alike with "been there done that styling".

[Ytriox]

Originally Posted by BigAls87Z28

Well, first off it IS in the editorial section.
There have been rumors, yes, of a larger Zeta going to replace the Deville, but with my idea, along with the idea that the CTS will be moving up in market as well, that a "Zeta-Lux" could be used to make a smaller, Commadore Sized BLS, but still price point would start at the same low 30k. I guess I should have explained that better.

The current Zeta platform as underpinning the Commodore is larger than the current CTS. Not smaller.